Faith over medicine?

[Zythryn]

Statistics are a devilish tool:)

I would suggest that for comparison purposes you would need to compare how many untreated cases result in death and compare that with the number of deaths due to malpractice for people with the same condition.

[Ahmabeliever]

While I appreciate the compliment, it is a bit misplaced:evil:

If just one type 1 diabetic happens upon this thread that is considering Mike's course of action, and takes a closer look because of what I or anyone else has posted any amount of time I spend is well worth it.

 

Too often it seems people will jump to conclusions without investigation, even if the consequences are deadly:(

 

That last sentence is the exact same problem that created the initial belief that God would save the girl.

 

The problem, I think, is 'honest intention'.

 

We do the best we can with what we know. The belief that the wrong action (lethal in this case) is the right action, is prevalent in so many people.

 

All of us seek the truth, some are willing to settle on a particular belief system a lot earlier. Remember 'faith' is about not questioning, but believing. Questioning is frowned upon, it displays a 'lack of faith'.

 

Many of us wish to 'live good lives', religious or not, the problem is religious persons think 'good' (God) is opposed to the rest of us, as we are not fundamentalists, we, and what we practise, is bad, or evil.

 

The more you try to talk to people like this, the more they are convinced 'Satan the lord of lies' is trying to trick them. The better your arguement, the more they are challenged, the more convinced they are of your evil intent to obfuscate the 'truth'.

 

Added to this is the self fulfilling prophesy that we will try to talk christians down off their clouds. PROOF! B)

 

My heart goes out to those parents, I firmly believe the intention was honourable, and the result obviously tragic.

 

On diet - Hippocrates said - Let food be thy medicine.

 

Food does not cure all, this is obvious, try putting brocolli on a broken leg :rolleyes: but the ounce of prevention a good diet entails will ensure the body has internal reserves when a disease comes along that requires medicine. I don't get headaches, lethargy, upset stomach, jittery, any more since eating nutritionally rich foods. When I ate a lot of bread and sugar I was lethargic a lot and my physical training had met a wall. My thinking and study too, seem a lot easier now.

 

We are individuals of several body types, so I'd not be so presumptious as to tell others how to eat as it could well be the wrong advice. I'm naturally slim, discovered I'd grown a belly, and determined to lose it before it got out of hand.

 

In the process I discovered that good food is, indeed, medicine.

[HydrogenBond]

I was just playing with statistics, to demonstrate if one doesn't think it through and qualify the numbers with common sense, it can become misleading. I did not make up the numbers, it was a valid study, yet it is very misleading.

 

With the religious medical free choice statistics, one also has to dig into the numbers deeper. Every sniffle and cut, where others will seek medical care, are part of their success stories. This side of the data is not presented because the ambiance needs the statistics to be presented a given way, just like I was doing.

 

Statistics is based on the same rules that govern gambling. One of the top games of gambling is poker. It is based on odds, but uses bluffs. The idea is to make others think you have more in your hand than you do. If I do a study that says X increases your risk of Y by 25%, the goal is not to show those 25% cards in my hand, i.e., you, you and you. The goal is to make everyone think I have the perfect hand. I want the everyone to fold including those with four aces, i.e., those with no risk of losing. I don't know what their cards are, or know their individual risk, but I need them to think they will lose, so they all fold to my bluff.

 

Even health insurance is also based on gambling. The jackpot, ironically is bad health. We bet that bad health will get us. If we win the jackpot, we get to brag that we made money in the sense of not having to spend it. Some are addicted, visiting the health casinos more often then they should. But luckily they will get a comp from the insurance casino. If the insurance casino is not winning enough, it simply changes the odds. Gambling is not part of some religions so the health system doesn't sit right.

 

National or Socialize health care may change things. The arguments of it causing the amount of health care to fall, may be correct. But what it will do is break the gambling addiction and cause more use of self healing. Many of the medical casinos will have to close, due to poor receipts. The lack of casinos will make presenting more and more statistical bluffs, dry up, since one can't support every new game of chance.

[Mike C]

Vanadyl Sulphate is a synthetic version of a trace mineral, vanadium. It is a very interesting mineral as it does exhibit some insulin-like behavior.

Unfortunately it also exhibits side affects. Some of which include damage to DNA, blocking of protein synthesis and oxidation of lipids which "is considered a primary step in the development of cardiovascular disease." (source: Vanadium in diabetes: benefit or harm?, by John Walsh, covers vanadium and other trace minerals in diabetes.).

 

I must admit I didn't look up any beyond the first as it contradicts both the above statement, and your next one:

 

However, even if there weren't sever side affects, my original fear is not that what they prescribe will cause harm (which it appears it may) it is that the lack of treatment with insulin leads to the harm.

 

Insulin, by the way, is a natural substance:)

 

Are all those drugs prescribed by the approved US healthcare system natural substances?

The JAMA quote of the dangers of drugs is a well kept secret while the 'Ephedra' (herb) scare of its dangers was a major news item.

 

As far as the Vanadyl Sulphate, I am sure the doctor would know about its dangers.

Even some vitamins and minerals in very high doses will cause some side effects.

 

Mike C

[InfiniteNow]

As far as the Vanadyl Sulphate, I am sure the doctor would know about its dangers.

 

Sounds a lot like the certainty expressed by the parents of this girl that god would heal her... We can all see how THAT turned out. :)

[HydrogenBond]

I was not trying to dump on the medical industry, but was more pocking fun at the limitations of statistics. Gambling should teach us that there is no fool proof gambling system based on statistics. There are days where one will hit the jackpot. Other days on will have a winning streak. But in the end, the house will usually win. The medical casino business is booming due to all the new statistical gambling games that have appeared.

 

But like any good casino, if one is not gambling, there are other things to do. There are also good techniques and procedures that are more rational, based on trained skills. These doctors don't say I feel lucky today or my risk factor is down, lets operate. It is all very rational and good. But the casino is still the big money maker. For it to function, your odds is always getting higher for one of the games, so bet on sickness to finish, place or show.

[InfiniteNow]

HydrogenBond,

 

You tend to make clear in all posts that you dislike statistics, so that particular clarification really wasn't required. You've yet to post anything relating to the actual topic under discussion. Perhaps you will realize this and adjust your style accordingly... or, perhaps not.

[Mike C]

Fascinating, do you have a name of the herb, or perhaps a study of any sort? BTW, the pancreas isn't damaged, but the islet cells which reside there are, perhaps this is what you are referring to?

 

The herb I was talking about is Gymnema Sylvestrae.

It can regenerate the beta cells of the pancreas. It also reduces the blood sugar in both types of diabetes.

 

Mike C

[Zythryn]

Thanks Mike, that looks quite promising for type 2 diabetics.

There are studies showing that this herb can indeed increase the efficiency of beta cells. This study did not show anything about healing them though. And as type one diabetics can't benifit from the other man made drugs that perform this same thing (increasing beta cell efficiency) I don't see this as a cure or aid to people with type 1 diabetes.

I'll keep an eye on this one and speak of it with my doctor, thanks for the name:)

[HydrogenBond]

Here is a way to look at faith healing. If we look at the cells of the body, nearly all of the cells will have nerve tissue nearby. The cells will also have circulatory and lymphatic tissues, nearby. Making use of the circulatory and lymphatic tissue is where medicines focus. The nerve tissue is not part of the modern blend, but could add another dimension for treatment.

 

The nerve tissue is unique, compared to the lymphatic and circulatory tissue, in that it is based on smart tissue. It is based on the same type of cells as the brain, although there are many differences. So what we have is smart tissue near cells. These little nerve endings converge into larger and larger branches, until they reach the spine and then the brain. It is possible that bulk responses from the brain, such as faith in healing, can conduct to the cells. The hit and miss of faith healing may be due to an inability to focus. This would require a better understanding of the condition, as well as a some knowledge of local anatomy, to focus the faith healing. Sometimes, the religious avoid this extra knowledge, but it may help improve their efficiency.

 

If we assume smart tissue, then what purpose does it have? The one that comes to mind is part of the cellular control system. If the cells are out of control, then a little extra positive boost from the brain may help reset the control system. The placebo affect and faith healing may allow this conduction of extra potential. There may come a time, when you plug an instrument into the spine. It sends a complex signal that artificially looks like the total nerve output of a healthy organ. The out of control organ in the sick person sees this healthy signal and moves toward control. This may can still involve the immune system and medications, with the nerve tweak, making it work faster.

[InfiniteNow]

The placebo affect and faith healing may allow this conduction of extra potential. There may come a time, when you plug an instrument into the spine. It sends a complex signal that artificially looks like the total nerve output of a healthy organ. The out of control organ in the sick person sees this healthy signal and moves toward control. This may can still involve the immune system and medications, with the nerve tweak, making it work faster.

 

Yeah, I'll jump right on that next time I'm hyperglycemic. :eek_big:

[Mike C]

Thanks Mike, that looks quite promising for type 2 diabetics.

There are studies showing that this herb can indeed increase the efficiency of beta cells. This study did not show anything about healing them though. And as type one diabetics can't benifit from the other man made drugs that perform this same thing (increasing beta cell efficiency) I don't see this as a cure or aid to people with type 1 diabetes.

I'll keep an eye on this one and speak of it with my doctor, thanks for the name:)

 

The information I get is from Dr. Julian Whitaker. He has a clinic in California.

 

He says that obesity is the greatest cause of diabetese.

So he advises that reducing or eliminating excess fat can be a good cure for diabetese. That is his first line of treating this illness.

Of course, he also recommends exercise.

 

Mike C

[HydrogenBond]

I was looking into the future. The brain-nerve connection is not fully exploited because there is an interface problem that can't be addressed with existing theory. A local nerve does not give off enough chemicals to account for an elaborate control schema based on just chemical exchange. That means it has to be done in a different way. One aspect is connected to the common surface charges associated with cation pumping, with the nerve cell at higher potential compared to the control cell. One has a potential hierarchy from the brain to the local nerve cell then to the cell based on the surface cations. If we wanted to make this connection even more inclusive, we would need to address the potential hierarchy in terms of hydrogen potential in water, since this is the sum of all the organic and inorganic materials dissolved in the common water.

 

Some forms of cancer might be explained as being due to a breakdown in the local nerve control system. The nerve, being at higher cationic potential, than the cell, counters the lowering of the cell's membrane potential needed for cell cycles. During the cell cycle, the outside potential will drop. The higher nerve potential makes this harder, because the cell can't form the configurational equilibrium that will allow the cell cycle to complete. If we remove that countering affect, the cell cycles are easier.

[REASON]

I was looking into the future. The brain-nerve connection is not fully exploited because there is an interface problem that can't be addressed with existing theory. A local nerve does not give off enough chemicals to account for an elaborate control schema based on just chemical exchange. That means it has to be done in a different way. One aspect is connected to the common surface charges associated with cation pumping, with the nerve cell at higher potential compared to the control cell. One has a potential hierarchy from the brain to the local nerve cell then to the cell based on the surface cations. If we wanted to make this connection even more inclusive, we would need to address the potential hierarchy in terms of hydrogen potential in water, since this is the sum of all the organic and inorganic materials dissolved in the common water.

 

Some forms of cancer might be explained as being due to a breakdown in the local nerve control system. The nerve, being at higher cationic potential, than the cell, counters the lowering of the cell's membrane potential needed for cell cycles. During the cell cycle, the outside potential will drop. The higher nerve potential makes this harder, because the cell can't form the configurational equilibrium that will allow the cell cycle to complete. If we remove that countering affect, the cell cycles are easier.

 

:)

 

This post is an example of Bogus Bloviation.

[maikeru]

The information I get is from Dr. Julian Whitaker. He has a clinic in California.

 

He says that obesity is the greatest cause of diabetese.

So he advises that reducing or eliminating excess fat can be a good cure for diabetese. That is his first line of treating this illness.

Of course, he also recommends exercise.

 

Mike C

 

Yes, obesity and its related factors (a diet high in processed foods, like refined starches, sugars, fats, etc.) are likely the cause of diabetes type II (diabetes mellitus). Not diabetes in general. Others already mentioned that the causes of types I and II are very different, and so the understanding, reasoning, and treatment must be accordingly as well. Please understand this. The majority of diabetes cases are type II, caused by diet, lifestyle choices, etc. but a significant minority is type I, caused by genetics or unfortunate circumstance (such as conditions which might've damaged or killed off the beta cells or ability to produce or respond to insulin).

 

I spent some time learning about diabetes because my grandmother died a few years ago from diabetes (and other complications), probably induced by her physical inactivity and poor diet, although she was skinny. It was misdiagnosed as arthritis and lupus, although arthritis, poor blood flow, and her rapidly worsening eyesight, in retrospect, were clear signs of diabetes.

 

One of my nextdoor neighbors is a naturopath, and although he is a licensed doctor, I believe half the herbs and treatments he recommends are based on somewhat doubtful science or nutraceutical/herbal hype. I would not be comfortable to have him as my primary physician. Not all doctors are created equal. Not all that they study or learn is created equal either. Good doctors stick to good science and good scientific understanding, using what they know to the fullest they can, besides getting on well with their patients.

 

It is important to verify that herbs actually do what they're supposed to do. Many (or most?) herbs do not have good scientific backing for their health and medicinal claims.

[Ahmabeliever]

I have a Doctor here, a rare breed, who offers you a choice of what the drug companies offer, and what alternate remedy there is. He is very good and walks you through it all, instead of quote medical pamphlets at you.

 

End of the day the choice is yours. You can also choose his recommendation. No quackery, just wisdom. He uses all the tools he can, not just one set of them.

[Mike C]

Yes, obesity and its related factors (a diet high in processed foods, like refined starches, sugars, fats, etc.) are likely the cause of diabetes type II (diabetes mellitus). Not diabetes in general. Others already mentioned that the causes of types I and II are very different, and so the understanding, reasoning, and treatment must be accordingly as well. Please understand this. The majority of diabetes cases are type II, caused by diet, lifestyle choices, etc. but a significant minority is type I, caused by genetics or unfortunate circumstance (such as conditions which might've damaged or killed off the beta cells or ability to produce or respond to insulin).

 

I spent some time learning about diabetes because my grandmother died a few years ago from diabetes (and other complications), probably induced by her physical inactivity and poor diet, although she was skinny. It was misdiagnosed as arthritis and lupus, although arthritis, poor blood flow, and her rapidly worsening eyesight, in retrospect, were clear signs of diabetes.

 

One of my nextdoor neighbors is a naturopath, and although he is a licensed doctor, I believe half the herbs and treatments he recommends are based on somewhat doubtful science or nutraceutical/herbal hype. I would not be comfortable to have him as my primary physician. Not all doctors are created equal. Not all that they study or learn is created equal either. Good doctors stick to good science and good scientific understanding, using what they know to the fullest they can, besides getting on well with their patients.

 

It is important to verify that herbs actually do what they're supposed to do. Many (or most?) herbs do not have good scientific backing for their health and medicinal claims.

 

I believe in science too, but that is 'Natural' science', rather than science for profit as the current US healthcare system is motivated by.

 

Sorry to read about your grandmother.

Poor circulation or artereoscerosis is the pimary cause of all diseases.

 

Mike C