Power of oil companies

[nutronjon]

How Important Was Oil in World War II?

 

I don't know what we are to do about this, but despite all our technology, people in the US are still thinking with the mentality of the pioneer days. We are to be as tough and independent pioneers. Before us are what seem to be unlimited resources and wealth just waiting for the taking. We can live off the land, as our valleys, forest and rivers are filled with wild life. God has blessed our country with food and shelter free for the taking, and also furs, trees, farm land, gold, silver, iron ore, coal, and more. Anyone of industry can be free and independent, and has an equal opportunity to become rich. In fact, we know who God chooses, by the amount of wealth a man has.

 

Businesses are suppose to be lightly regulated by government, but strictly separate for government.

 

This consciousness is seriously lacking in the conscious of a pre- world war I Prussian general, and therefore, seriously out of touch with our present reality.

 

Before the first world war, a Prussian general realized, mass production demands mass markets and resources from around the world. Therefore, the economy of a nation depends on military strength and the ability to control the world's markets and resources. Understand, at this point in history, with this realization of economics, how people are ruled and live matters far more than in the past. Go back to first paragraph, no one in the US cared about Africans, except as slaves to advance their wealth, but surely not the country and its government or social organization. No one heard of Afghanistan, or Pakistan. History books may have told us of exotic places like Athens, Rome and Egypt, because they are tied to our history, but the was the past, not a present interest in these countries. Until our leaders adopt the Prussian general's view of the New World Order, and Prussian military bureaucracy applied to citizens, the US is a self sufficient country with little interst in the rest of the world. It has a lot of charity, but no social services, which require the bureaucratic order that is Prussian military bureaucracy applied to citizens.

 

The US has changed in major ways. It did adopt the Prussian bureaucracy model, and education for technology for military and industrial purpose. Like an individual suffering serious mental disease, the population of the US needs psycho therapy. Eisenhower, called the changing force the Industrial/Military Complex, but the citizens never understood what that was.

 

Let us begin with increasing awareness of just one piece of the Industrial- Military Complex- the power of oil companies and our presence in regions essential to the supply of oil. Let us begin to understand the marriage of industry and government. The link hopefully helps us understand why the oil industry is not like a shoe factory.

[Zythryn]

Nutronjon, I don't think you would find anyone that would argue that oil played a critical role in WWII.

I am still confused as to why you want to entertain the fantasy of what it would have been like if we had not had oil in WWII.

You could also ask:

What would WWII have been like without airplanes.

or

What would WWII have been like without gunpowder.

If it pertains to our economy, I would be happy to discuss that as it is a fascinating subject. Just where do you want to take this conversation?

 

As an aside, I would love to hear more of your thoughts on this:

In fact, we know who God chooses, by the amount of wealth a man has.

However, I think that topic is way off topic and would be best in its own thread;)

[nutronjon]

Nutronjon, I don't think you would find anyone that would argue that oil played a critical role in WWII.

I am still confused as to why you want to entertain the fantasy of what it would have been like if we had not had oil in WWII.

You could also ask:

What would WWII have been like without airplanes.

or

What would WWII have been like without gunpowder.

If it pertains to our economy, I would be happy to discuss that as it is a fascinating subject. Just where do you want to take this conversation?

 

As an aside, I would love to hear more of your thoughts on this:

 

However, I think that topic is way off topic and would be best in its own thread;)

 

 

How can you possibly miss the connection? I am really, really blow away and in a state of shock. Follow through with the thinking and you will get a much better understanding of reality.

 

Besides, you obviously did not read the link, and therefore replied, totally unprepared to address the subject of this thread. Why is the oil industry, not like a shoe factory?

[Zythryn]

I did read the article, it repeated very little that I didn't already know.

I understand more than many how powerful special interests and lobbyists are in general and the oil companies in particular.

As for your questions, there are lots of answers. The primary to me is the huge amount of money and power they weild as a group. And that they act in concert to weild that power as efficiently as possible.

 

Let me ask you, what is it you wish to discuss and what is your position?

Is the amount of power the oil companies a good or bad thing?

What do you think will come of it?

Is there something we can do about it?

 

I have many thoughts on these questions but I just wanted to give you a helping hand with taking this discussion somewhere other than just lectures;)

[nutronjon]

I did read the article, it repeated very little that I didn't already know.

I understand more than many how powerful special interests and lobbyists are in general and the oil companies in particular.

As for your questions, there are lots of answers. The primary to me is the huge amount of money and power they weild as a group. And that they act in concert to weild that power as efficiently as possible.

 

Let me ask you, what is it you wish to discuss and what is your position?

 

Hum, I don't think this is a position, but when we announced we have a national youth crisis, I began studying the history of education, because I knew education had been changed by the 1958 National Defense Education Act. I knew we imitated the German model of education for technology for military and industrial purpose, so I began studying Germany, and learned things that I think others are unaware of. Sorry for lecturing, but I think this is very important information, because we are not the democracy we defended in two world wars, but what we defended our democracy against.

 

 

Is the amount of power the oil companies a good or bad thing?

Because oil is vital to our economy and national defense, it is unavoidable. Because it requires a huge, huge military expense, it could hasten the decline of the US, and I think we should have stayed on the path Carter established, of conservation of investment in alternative energy. The Eisenhower administration put the Military/Industrial in order and the Reagan and Bush administrations have invested our country heavily in securing control of mid east oil. However, the alternative would be unacceptable to most people, because they do not have a good understanding of reality.

 

What do you think will come of it?

We have been on a path of economic disaster and war, since the 1920 ty's, because we have steadily increased our dependency on oil, and change now would be intolerable to people, not until our economy collapses or the world goes to war, will people become serious about change.

 

 

Is there something we can do about it?

Yes. The first thing that needs to be done is raise awareness of our reality. The second is to create a plan for how we will get out of this mess. Obviously, we must increase mass transit systems, and decrease our consumption of oil. Cities can make several changes. A minor one is, stop building mazes that are built for privacy and cars, and start creating walk ways, so people can walk to a bus stop. Perhaps subsidize local grocrey stores, and think about how we can provide grocrey stores in walking distance, with the gaint store prices. Return education to the humanities and focus on how we are going to live together, without the affluence to which we have become accustom.

 

 

I have many thoughts on these questions but I just wanted to give you a helping hand with taking this discussion somewhere other than just lectures;)

 

Thank you for giving me a hand, but I don't think there is sufficient understanding of the Industrial/Military Complex and the talk about our addiction to oil, to motivate anyone for change. People are not ready for change. They will do all in their power to defend a way of life that is hurting the rest of world, and can not be sustained, and they love to believe the whole world can live as we do. Americans want to believe they are rich, because they have a better system for getting rich. They are pretty clueless about what oil has to do with their wealth and their position in the world. They really do not understand the Industrail/Military Complex, but if you do, please, help by increasing the understanding of it.

[Zythryn]

Excellent Nutronjon, thank you for a well thought out response.

Now I can see what your point is and what your position is. Thank you, it makes discussion much more productive:)

I would agree with much of what you said if you had not taken it to such extremes.

For example you commented:

I don't think there is sufficient understanding of the Industrial/Military Complex and the talk about our addiction to oil, to motivate anyone for change.

 

I disagree when you use 'anyone'. I have changed my behaviors over the last ten years or so, partially due to seeing where over-reliance on one resource is taking us.

 

The issue of over-reliance on oil really has been an odd one. It has grown from individuals, upward to city and then state politics. Nationally (here in the USA) the federal government has been fighting this movement, but the change continues to gain in strength.

 

We have been on a path of economic disaster and war, since the 1920 ty's, because we have steadily increased our dependency on oil, and change now would be intolerable to people, not until our economy collapses or the world goes to war, will people become serious about change.

 

I don't believe I can agree with this. Reliance on oil is not an issue as long as it is redily available. Oil is still redily available, however demand is starting to outstrip supply and we are not prepared to shift (large scale) to another source of energy. So we may NOW be on a path for economic pain, however if we had started getting prepared 20 years ago, I would suggest we would not be in such dire straights.

 

And I whole-heartedly agree that the industrial complex needs to be unattached from our political structure. The big money has far too much influence with our government.

[nutronjon]

And I whole-heartedly agree that the industrial complex needs to be unattached from our political structure. The big money has far too much influence with our government.

 

I know I have explained the order of the New World Order, but it doesn't seem like my explanation is understood. I am not sure what to do from here?

 

Like most the world, the democracy of the US was order by family order. It is now order by military order. There are some good things about this and some bad things about this.

 

Eisenhower praised the Germans for their contribution to democracy. I know this because I read government documents at the U of O library. His administration adopted the organization of Germany's New World Order and established it in the US. One component is new relationships between government and research, and another is the new relationship between government and media, and the most important is the relationship between government and education. We changed not only the subjects children learn, but also how they are taught to think, and our nations values and social order.

 

However, long before this, during the Roosevelt administration, our government order was so reorganized that it made the Eisenhower steps towards the New World Order possible. In several years on line, I haven't found anyone who can discuss this, because this major change in the reorganization of our institutions and our relationship to them is, not general information. Not many know what it means to apply Prussian military bureaucracy to citizens, but this is directly connected to the change in education and moral decline in the US, and skyrocketing corporate corruption and the subprime melt down. It is exactly, the government order Tocqueville foresaw in 1835 when he wrote "Democracy in America"!

 

Fiction writers became aware of this shift in our consciousness, and wrote of the "Brave New World" and "1984". They wrote in fiction of government that is a stronger despotic government, capable of controlling the minute details of lives far more than ever known to history. Star Trek, expressed this growing reality with stories of civilizations run by computers. What we haven't become aware of is, the computer is organic not electrical. We are have become the Borg, the mechanical society of Germany, enhanced by technology. Education has prepared the young for this, and if we do not gain awareness of this, before the older people die, the democracy that was once the US with freedom and liberty, will be a forgotten memory. The books that retain the memory, will be thrown away because what is in them is not valued. Have you read any of the fiction and compared it to reality? The fiction is a reflection of our changing reality.

 

I don't mean to lecture, but I want to raise awareness of what we have to talk about.

Kirk and the orginal Star Trek shows, and later, Picard and the Next Generation Star Trek shows, dramatically demonstrate this change in consciousness that our country has experienced. It is both good and bad. Mass consciousness of what I speak will bring out the good and subpress the bad.