New idea about UFO's!

[Thunderbird]

Thunderbird, you are splitting hairs to try and annoy me. teach him to be a better cave man, that's nonsensical. Being a native american I think I have a better slant on what they could be taught and what they couldn't. Please leave my thread.

 

 

What is your tribe and totem.

[Moontanman]

What is your tribe and totem.

 

Sioux, Cherokee, and Choctaw. just in case you didn't know it the Native American peoples were far more than just wandering tribes of hunters. Before the Spanish brought diseases there was a thriving civilization in Middle America centering on the Mississippi River. Not just hunter gatherers. Actual cities and huge farming complexes, if not for the diseases they brought Europeons wouldn't have had a ghost of a chance to conquer North America. Their cities rivialed any in Europe. Only after the cities were emptied by disease were the Spanish able to take over. Only the Cherokee were left as a nation that held land and the US government took that away. Now leave my thread. Stop trying to drive this thread off topic, go back to your oolitic spheres and leave me alone.

[Thunderbird]

Thunderbird, you are splitting hairs to try and annoy me. teach him to be a better cave man, that's nonsensical. Being a native american I think I have a better slant on what they could be taught and what they couldn't. Please leave my thread.

 

But your saying you can make him a better cave man, this is your nonsense not mine, or are you saying make him a better man?, which is saying you are superior,

 

This is about science if a scientist could go back in time and study a stone age culture his first thought is what he could learn from them. If a missonary

comes in contact with them he would think he could teach them. This is yours position and I very much dobt you are in touch with your native roots.

again...

 

 

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Cavemen as you call them were just as human as we are and had just as much potintial. To say they were some how inferior and not able to learn as we do is simply wrong.

 

You.... cannot..... teach...... a caveman........ to be better..... at...... being a.......... caveman

 

How in any way does what your saying have anything at to do with what I said.

[Moontanman]

But your saying you can make him a better cave man, this is your nonsense not mine, or are you saying make him a better man?, which is saying you are superior,

 

this is about science if a scientist could go back in time and study a stone age culture his first thought is what he could learn from them. If a missonary

comes in contact with them he would think he could teach them. This is yours position and I very much dobt you are in touch with your native roots.

again...

 

 

 

 

You.... cannot..... teach...... a caveman........ to be better..... at...... being a.......... caveman

 

How in any way does what your saying have anything at to do with what I said.

 

No one said you could, I just said he could be taught to do more than be a cave man. The very use of the words Cave man are insulting since they mean nothing. Like assuming that Native Americans would be naturally better at survival than anyone else. Wanting to teach him has nothing to do with it. It's his ability to learn that is important. Now explain how any of this has to do with Aiens colonizing our solar sytem or leave, better yet just leave. You know, make like a horse turd and hit the trail!

[Thunderbird]

Sioux, Cherokee, and Choctaw. just in case you didn't know it the Native American peoples were far more than just wandering tribes of hunters. Before the Spanish brought diseases there was a thriving civilization in Middle America centering on the Mississippi River. Not just hunter gatherers. Actual cities and huge farming complexes, if not for the diseases they brought Europeons wouldn't have had a ghost of a chance to conquer North America. Their cities rivialed any in Europe. Only after the cities were emptied by disease were the Spanish able to take over. Only the Cherokee were left as a nation that held land and the US government took that away. Now leave my thread. Stop trying to drive this thread off topic, go back to your oolitic spheres and leave me alone.

 

eankke

 

If you noticed my name on the thread is Thunderbird and I have Cherokee Blood on both side of my family.

[Moontanman]

eankke

 

If you noticed my name on the thread is Thunderbird and I have Cherokee Blood on both side of my family.

 

Good for you

[Thunderbird]

You have misquoted me

 

Are you still refusing to back up your claim.

[Thunderbird]

No one said you could, I just said he could be taught to do more than be a cave man. The very use of the words Cave man are insulting since they mean nothing. Like assuming that Native Americans would be naturally better at survival than anyone else. Wanting to teach him has nothing to do with it. It's his ability to learn that is important. Now explain how any of this has to do with Aiens colonizing our solar sytem or leave, better yet just leave. You know, make like a horse turd and hit the trail!

 

 

No here is your Quote..

 

 

Please tell me point for point how I have misrepresented what you are saying. I am a reassonable man and quick to admit my mistakes but I don't see it that way in this case. Show me different and I'll apologize. but don't expect me to believe you are correct just because you say so. I have countered every point you made, please do me the same with out simply telling me I am wrong.

 

 

I was answering these points you so vehemently wanted explained ..Own your word, admit your mistake.

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

As for who said cave men couldn't learn, you did.

 

 

Show me, or apoligize.

[Moontanman]

Show me, or apoligize.

 

Wat ever you say, just leave my thread.

[Tormod]

So you think you could better them as cave men :) maybe you could go back in time and teach an native American how to survive off the land.

 

Or better their situation. You are the one that is saying we are some how superior to them. I would Imagine if you did go back you could tell them nothing and you would learn nothing.

 

I think you are misreading Moontanman. He has AFAIK not said anything about being superior to anyone else. You are forcing Moontanman into a corner while he is getting angry at you for taking the discussion elsewhere.

 

I think you both have valid points early in this discussion but it is deteriorating into a flame war. I urge you to leave the disagreement behind and continue the thread. If not, I will have to close this thread.

[DougF]

Well I like this thread and would like to see it get back on track ...So.

 

 

Moontanman

Yeah' date=' I know how can there be a new idea, well here is mine, at least I hope it's new, it is new to me. I have read many times, so many times I really cannot remember who first thought of it, that even with our current level of technology we could in about 250,000 years occupy pretty much the entire galaxy. [b']This lead to the question if there are aliens then why aren't they already here occupying earth?[/b] What "if" they are already here, colonizing the solar system possibly thousands of years ago with orbiting colonies. Small orbiting colonies could number in the hundreds or even thousands and we would never be the wiser. If we decide to colonize space terra forming would take far too long to be really practical but orbiting O'Neill type colonies could be made now. Large orbiting colonies could even make the jump to nearby stars. If another civilization was colonizing space but not the planets. They could easily hide from us and still manage to visit us routinely but not have to travel back and forth from another star.

I think if we went to another planet and found it inhabited, we would stay far enough away to observe them without interfering with them, you know study them.

 

I think they would stay at the outer edge of our system and watch us from there, sense we can't see that far very well.

 

Moontanman

First' date=' probably my personal favorite idea as to why there are no aliens visiting earth is that star travel is so difficult that for aliens to mount even a small fraction of the number of visits that UFO reports would indicate it would take an effort much bigger than all the effort put into WW 2. If they already occupy hundreds or thousands of orbiting colonies then they could mount such an effort easily.[/quote']

Yes it would be better if there was some kind of a base and a orbiting colony would be better (easier to hide).

 

 

Moontanman

Second' date=' why would aliens be interested in us at all? If they come from a distant star every time they visit then I wouldn't expect to ever see aliens or their craft. But if they already live in our solar system then the rise of a space fairing civilization would be very interesting to them. Their very existence might depend on how they deal with us. So checking us out on a regular basis would be necessary. [/quote']

If they evolved like us (or not)

I would like to see how we as a planet keep from killing our selfs off.

and maybe it's like one big history trip for them.

 

Moontanman

Third' date=' some people think that ancient legends indicate that the gods of antiquity are really aliens that were trying to manipulate us in certain ways. Of course the why would they do that comes back into play. If they were star travelers with technology so advanced they could travel faster than light then as before I wouldn't expect this to be true. But if they are already living in our solar system then the idea to manipulate us over the centuries could be experiments to see how we can be controlled. [/quote']

Or maybe it's there DNA that started us here, and they (our parents) are just trying to teach us the right path.

 

Moontanman

Fourth' date=' If they made the effort to star travel then why don't they occupy the Earth? If they are indeed a civilization of orbiting colonies they would no use for planets. This would also go along with the idea that visiting an alien planet would be dangerous due to possible disease or chemical poisons or allergens we might run into on an alien planet. Even allergens could bar humans from ever visiting a alien planet much less colonizing it. [/quote']

I agree 100% with this, if we were to travel to the stars we would live in a very clean environment for a very long time, any exposer to alien environment could be very dangerous.

[johnfp]

We have never been visited by anyone/anything from other solar systems. The reason can be found by looking at our own society and the earth. This happens to all civilizations. Before the civilization can mature enough to master interstellar travel, the civilization passes through an "almost there" technology. This technology kills their planet. Or the civilization kills itself fighting for the resources to feed this technology.

 

So no civilization anywhere in the universe has ever made it to the point of being able to travel to different solar systems.

[Tormod]

So no civilization anywhere in the universe has ever made it to the point of being able to travel to different solar systems.

 

This is flawed logic. Since you belong to a civilization that is not mastering space travel, how can you claim to know what is and is not possible?

[johnfp]

It's no more flawed then saying there are other beings living in space without having indisputable evidence of them. :evil:

[Tormod]

It's no more flawed then saying there are other beings living in space without having indisputable evidence of them. :evil:

 

Two different things. You use your logic to prove that something is not true, but you have no evidence.

 

It is a valid scientific hypothesis to claim that since there is life on Earth, there may be life elsewhere in the universe (ie, we have evidence of life in the universe since we exist within it). We cannot, however, use that knowledge to claim that we can know for certain anything about life elsewhere until we find it.

[johnfp]

Two different things. You use your logic to prove that something is not true, but you have no evidence.

 

It is a valid scientific hypothesis to claim that since there is life on Earth, there may be life elsewhere in the universe (ie, we have evidence of life in the universe since we exist within it). We cannot, however, use that knowledge to claim that we can know for certain anything about life elsewhere until we find it.

 

If we are talking about a hypothesis, then I'll restated it and it will be up to you to prove it wrong. Until then, mine too is a valid scientific hypothesis.

 

Following the current trend of the degridation of the Earth due to technilogical advances (batteries, chemicals, polution, ect.) and the rate of increase in population on th Earth it is proposed that the human population will cease prior to interstellar space travel. Applying this logic as a model society I can therefore say the this is the typical scenereo in all places in the universe and thus there is no life other then on Earth. Or at lease no life that has found it's way here.

 

The burden now lies on you and anyone else that want's to disprove it incorrect.

 

Wasn't it you that stated you needed real evidence concerning "The Final Theory"? But here you assume there is life elsewhere with no evidence?

 

It should be assumed there is no life elsewhere until prove there is. It should not be, there is life else where. How could we ever disprove that? Seach every single square inch in the universe and until all space is search the hypothesis that there is life elsewhere is true? Think about it!