kcl0341 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Posted April 10, 2008 Religions today: Some observers believe that the main function of religions today is to provide their followers with a feeling of security. John Shelby Spong, retired bishop of the Episcopal Church, USA has written: "Religion is primarily a search for security and not a search for truth. Religion is what we so often use to bank the fires of our anxiety. That is why religion tends toward becoming excessive, neurotic, controlling and even evil. That is why a religious government is always a cruel government. People need to understand that questioning and doubting are healthy, human activities to be encouraged not to be feared. Certainly is a vice not a virtue. Insecurity is something to be grasped and treasured. A true and healthy religious system will encourage each of these activities. A sick and fearful religious system will seek to remove them." David C. James, rector of St. John's Episcopal Church & Diocesan Mission Center in Olympia, WA, wrote: Many times when we think we are worshipping God, we are actually comforting our very fragile egos. I’m not so naïve as to assume that we build temple and erect altars to ourselves…directly. But our core need to been safe, secure and sound mandates that we construct reality systems that will support us. Let me quote Bertrand Russell statement: “Religion is based, I think primarily and mainly upon fear – fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand.” Fear is one of several very basic emotions and it is an instinct. It is a survival mechanism, and usually occurs in response to a specific negative stimulus. With this instinct our anciently man could survive in the world ruled by jungle laws. If someone was struck by lighting, then they would think this was the act of God. Fear has overcome them by natural disasters such as flood, bush-fire, landslide, earthquakes and many others. Religions were created to give people a feeling of security in an insecure world, and a feeling of control over the environment where there was little control. A plague, called The Black Death (1347 – 1350 AD) swept over Europe, causing widespread hysteria and death. One third of the population of Europe died. The primary culprits in transmitting this disease were oriental rat fleas carried on the back of the black rats. The Christian church said it was God’s will, but the reason for this awful punishment was unknown. “God have mercy upon us all!” said the bishop. As a matter of fact, there was nothing to do with God. God had nothing to forgive the people. The lack of medical knowledge had caused the plague. Ignorance had created fear that had overcome all the people in Europe. The virus H5N1 and SARS could have killed one fourth of the world population if our present medical knowledge could not cope with the spread of the virus. Churches and temples in fact are organizations. Like political parties, they have their own goals and the party members have faith in their parties and their leaders. The way to run a church or a temple is similar as running a political party. Power struggle among the leaders of the church exists just like that in a political party. Churches of different religions claim their God is the only true God. In the history of mankind different kinds of wars have been started by different kinds of religions when their conflicts of interests could not be compromised. Human beings were supposed to be created by God but according to Christian belief we are born sinners because our first parents Adam and Eve had committed the Original Sin. Our first mother Eve, disobeyed God and she ate the fruits from the Tree of the Kowledge of Evil and Good. After having eaten the fruits both Adam and Eve felt shameful for they found that they were naked. God does not want mankind to have any knowledge at all. Do we want our children to have more knowledge than ourselves? Shall we be jealous at our own children if they are more intelligent than us? On what ground that we should be born sinners ? King Lee Quote
HydrogenBond Posted April 14, 2008 Report Posted April 14, 2008 Being born sinner can be understood via looking at the symbol of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Knowledge of good and evil or law, not only requires knowledge of the good, but also knowledge of the evil side of the law so we know what not do do and what are the consequences. Law is binary data like two sides to one coin. That means half the data learned for each law has an evil undertone on the tails side. For example, thou shall not kill. The good side makes us feel more secure so people are able to get along. This is warm and fuzzy. The bad side creates images of death, brutality, trials, prison, punishment, death penalty, hell, etc. The total data stored in the brain for that one law, is all these things. The dark side of the law coin has a connection to Satan in the tree. If you look at it objectively, killing and much of the social outrage, right down to the executioner, makes use of the darker aspects human nature. The executioner can't be full of love and forgiveness. He has to be cold like a serial killer. These aspects of dark behavior are totally legal. It is what you expect from law since it is Satan's tree. He gets a two for one deal with law. There is one good side and two bad sides, with one of the bad sides legal or a necessary evil that is called good. Sounds like Satan to me. What appears to happen is all the negative or tails side of the law coins, needed to set the contrast, for direction of good behavior, starts to have an impact on the personality. All that negativity causes insecurity. That is why Adam and Eve all of a sudden saw they were naked. Before eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they didn't know naked was suppose to be evil, since they were not taught this until apple law. Because of the insecurity there is a snowball affect. More law is needed to appease the insecurities. But this adds more negativity perpetuating the insecurity or adding a new layer. The more insecure the legal negative side is, the worse they start to get. The Salem witch trials had the legal negative able to murder to prevent the illegal evil from mixing home remedies. It can get out of proportion due to law and the legal darkness that law can create to appease social insecurity. Law assure death of even the righteous, if they take too much pleasure in the legal-evil thinking it is good. Quote
InfiniteNow Posted April 15, 2008 Report Posted April 15, 2008 kcl0341 said: On what ground that we should be born sinners ?None. The only reasonable explanation that I can see is that the idea of "being born a sinner" is the only way to encompass everyone in existence into your set of rules. It prevents arguments about the innocence of children and immediately posits original sin to influence people toward the thought that they must do something to "fix" this. Now, the word religion means many different things. You appear focussed on Christianity. Does your approach apply to any other religions? Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and the many others? Quote
Southtown Posted April 16, 2008 Report Posted April 16, 2008 InfiniteNow said: The only reasonable explanation that I can see is that the idea of "being born a sinner" is the only way to encompass everyone in existence into your set of rules. It prevents arguments about the innocence of children and immediately posits original sin to influence people toward the thought that they must do something to "fix" this.I equate "being born a sinner" with "being born imperfect", if that means anything. Quote
nutronjon Posted May 10, 2008 Report Posted May 10, 2008 kcl0341 said: Religions today: Some observers believe that the main function of religions today is to provide their followers with a feeling of security. John Shelby Spong, retired bishop of the Episcopal Church, USA has written: "Religion is primarily a search for security and not a search for truth. Religion is what we so often use to bank the fires of our anxiety. That is why religion tends toward becoming excessive, neurotic, controlling and even evil. That is why a religious government is always a cruel government. People need to understand that questioning and doubting are healthy, human activities to be encouraged not to be feared. Certainly is a vice not a virtue. Insecurity is something to be grasped and treasured. A true and healthy religious system will encourage each of these activities. A sick and fearful religious system will seek to remove them." David C. James, rector of St. John's Episcopal Church & Diocesan Mission Center in Olympia, WA, wrote: Many times when we think we are worshipping God, we are actually comforting our very fragile egos. I’m not so naïve as to assume that we build temple and erect altars to ourselves…directly. But our core need to been safe, secure and sound mandates that we construct reality systems that will support us. Let me quote Bertrand Russell statement: “Religion is based, I think primarily and mainly upon fear – fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand.” Fear is one of several very basic emotions and it is an instinct. It is a survival mechanism, and usually occurs in response to a specific negative stimulus. With this instinct our anciently man could survive in the world ruled by jungle laws. If someone was struck by lighting, then they would think this was the act of God. Fear has overcome them by natural disasters such as flood, bush-fire, landslide, earthquakes and many others. Religions were created to give people a feeling of security in an insecure world, and a feeling of control over the environment where there was little control. A plague, called The Black Death (1347 – 1350 AD) swept over Europe, causing widespread hysteria and death. One third of the population of Europe died. The primary culprits in transmitting this disease were oriental rat fleas carried on the back of the black rats. The Christian church said it was God’s will, but the reason for this awful punishment was unknown. “God have mercy upon us all!” said the bishop. As a matter of fact, there was nothing to do with God. God had nothing to forgive the people. The lack of medical knowledge had caused the plague. Ignorance had created fear that had overcome all the people in Europe. The virus H5N1 and SARS could have killed one fourth of the world population if our present medical knowledge could not cope with the spread of the virus. Churches and temples in fact are organizations. Like political parties, they have their own goals and the party members have faith in their parties and their leaders. The way to run a church or a temple is similar as running a political party. Power struggle among the leaders of the church exists just like that in a political party. Churches of different religions claim their God is the only true God. In the history of mankind different kinds of wars have been started by different kinds of religions when their conflicts of interests could not be compromised. Human beings were supposed to be created by God but according to Christian belief we are born sinners because our first parents Adam and Eve had committed the Original Sin. Our first mother Eve, disobeyed God and she ate the fruits from the Tree of the Kowledge of Evil and Good. After having eaten the fruits both Adam and Eve felt shameful for they found that they were naked. God does not want mankind to have any knowledge at all. Do we want our children to have more knowledge than ourselves? Shall we be jealous at our own children if they are more intelligent than us? On what ground that we should be born sinners ? King Lee May I say religion gives us more than comfort for our fears? There are other ways of lifting humanity out of the dirt and condition of being like pathetic worms, however, religion is the most effective and popular way. Religion gives us dignity and honor if that is what we ask of it. The biblical story of Adam and Eve, began as a Sumerian story, and was adopted by the Hebrews who came out of Ur, one of the most important cities of Sumer. Abraham came from Ur, one of the most important cities of Sumer. The origin story is of many gods and humans were created to help the river stay in its banks. When the Hebrews accepted one God, they had to change the story, and the goddess Ninti, "the lady of the rib" and "the lady who makes live", became Eve the lady made from Adam's rib and "the who makes live". I do not sure why you are writing of religious mythology and past superstition based on igronance, when addressing religions today? Jews, Muslims and Christians share the same mythology. Hinduism and Buddhaism to do not carry this mythology. Eastern religions have been blended into quantum physics and this may be more representative of modern religion, however, it has not reached the level of mass consciousness necessary to replace traditional religion. Deism, a religion popular in the beginning of the US democracy, favors studying God through science. I think developing this point of view has merit. The concept of humans being made in the image of god, comes from the Greeks, and means we have the ability to learn and reason and create. I see no reason to argue this point. The Greek gods were not purely intellectual beings, but very emotional and imperfect beings. Our concept of what a god is, changes. The god of Deism doesn't enage with humans as some early Greek gods did, and doesn't manage our daily lives; isn't sitting around waiting to reward and punish us, nor does He protect us from our own folly. However, without such a god, neither are we as animals incapable of abstract thinking, reasoning, and self government based on reason. Quote
nutronjon Posted May 10, 2008 Report Posted May 10, 2008 InfiniteNow said: None. The only reasonable explanation that I can see is that the idea of "being born a sinner" is the only way to encompass everyone in existence into your set of rules. It prevents arguments about the innocence of children and immediately posits original sin to influence people toward the thought that they must do something to "fix" this. Now, the word religion means many different things. You appear focussed on Christianity. Does your approach apply to any other religions? Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and the many others? In Sumer sin was a condition of not knowing any better. This is also true in Buddhaist and Greek philosophy. Socrates offers us a correction to sin. That is training our conscience. That means learning abstract thinking and the rules for good logic, and science, and becoming aware of truth, becoming "enlighened". We know the meaning of science and "con" is coming out of. Conscience is, knowledge coming out of science. It is basing moral judgments not on superstition or religion, or self interest, but reasoning through what will be harmful and what will get the best results. This is important to the understanding of democracy. This is the same argument I am making in all threads regarding God, and the thread for discussing what is life. Quote
nutronjon Posted May 10, 2008 Report Posted May 10, 2008 Southtown said: I equate "being born a sinner" with "being born imperfect", if that means anything. I think things go better when we accept our imperfect humanness, and aspire not for perfection, but for knowledge. Quote
InfiniteNow Posted May 10, 2008 Report Posted May 10, 2008 nutronjon said: May I say religion gives us more than comfort for our fears? Of course you may. I would expand your point that, in addition to giving many comfort for their fears, religion even gives them a source OF them. Quote
nutronjon Posted May 11, 2008 Report Posted May 11, 2008 InfiniteNow said: Of course you may. I would expand your point that, in addition to giving many comfort for their fears, religion even gives them a source OF them. :shrug: True, and cases of that, that I have wittnessed, are sad. Christianity seems rather morbid to me. On the other hand, Hindus I have met were positive in contrast, expecting joy in life, and not fearing the punishment of a God. I think we should say, our conscousness is very different from biblical times. We have accepted the earth is a round planet and that it rotates around the sun, and we know much more about the planets that also orbit our sun. Galileo would not be prosecuted by the church today. Yet the church has not adjusted to evolution, and this is unfortunate. Muslims are equally opposed to the idea of evolution. The church survived accepting the heavens do not circle the earth, and I will be glad when evolution is equally accepted as scientific fact. However, this next step may be impossible for Christians, because it so radically changes everything, especially the need to be saved. I don't know if Christianity can survive that? That is sad, when one can not accept scientific truths, without giving up hope for one's own immorality. People are highly invested in their beliefs and they are not easy to give up, but Chardin, a Catholic priest, did give Christians away out. He said evolution is God's plan. Somehow he was able to rationalize both religion and science. Quote
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