Evolution is Fact

[Thunderbird]

Tell me how evolution takes place without “cooperative communication” ?:eek::):):cup::D;):) :eek:

[freeztar]

Tell me how evolution takes place without “cooperative communication” ?:eek::):):cup::D;):) :eek:

 

Allelic drift, mutations, etc...

[InfiniteNow]

Allelic drift, mutations, etc...

 

Don't forget environmental insults such as ecological collapse.

 

Also, those evolutionary changes we label as "negative" are still part of the process, and have zero, squat, null, nada, nottin' to do with cooperative communication.

 

 

Own up, Thunderbird. You're arguing conclusions which are the result of a false premise.

 

 

Is information involved? Sure. Is the sharing of information involved? Sure. Your assertions are still false, even when I grant the two maxims above.

[Thunderbird]

Don't forget environmental insults such as ecological collapse.

 

Also, those evolutionary changes we label as "negative" are still part of the process, and have zero, squat, null, nada, nottin' to do with cooperative communication.

 

 

Own up, Thunderbird. You're arguing conclusions which are the result of a false premise.

 

 

Is information involved? Sure. Is the sharing of information involved? Sure. Your assertions are still false, even when I grant the two maxims above.

Own up to what? information is "involved", what do you call that? Information that gets transfered? is that what you mean? Information is for communicating with? What we are do here is the same as life has allways done.

 

 

 

Biological Evolution

With the origin of life on earth, other types of processes are called into play. The connection between macro- and microworld is primarily ensured by the evolutionary ultracycles which have been discussed in the preceding chapter. At first, they become effective in coarse-grain, one-sided action, such as the transformation of the earth's surface and its atmosphere by the prokaryotes. This, however, facilitates the more finely tuned, continuously acting epigenetic processes in the eukaryotic organization of life's microevolution. Metabolic communication plays the major role in this second major phase of evolution. The results of this co-evolution, however, are no longer transferred directly in the form of matter, but enter in the form of information a process of true phylogeny. What evolves in phylogenetic development to higher complexity, is organization - an organization which, in principle, may be realized independently of time and space, as long as the environment is favourable....

 

Erich Jantsch, The Self-Organizing Universe - Scientific and Human Implications of the Emerging Paradigm of Evolution, New York: Pergamon. 1980, pp.209-210

 

More at Kheper - metamorphosis and evolution....

[Moontanman]

Own up to what? information is "involved", what do you call that? Information that gets transfered? is that what you mean? Information is for communicating with? What we are do here is the same as life has allways done.

 

Hang in there T-Bird, I agree with you, the exchange and passing of information both inter and intra cellular is what life does. It might be subtle but it's always there. As long as you don't require any intelligence or cognition I don't see any way around the exchange of information, life at it's most basic is information passed on and built on by chemical processes.

[freeztar]

Hang in there T-Bird, I agree with you, the exchange and passing of information both inter and intra cellular is what life does. It might be subtle but it's always there. As long as you don't require any intelligence or cognition I don't see any way around the exchange of information, life at it's most basic is information passed on and built on by chemical processes.

 

I agree with that. I had a problem with the word "cooperative". Can you explain what you mean by this a bit more TBird?

[C1ay]

There is no doubt that the passing of DNA is a passing of information. There is no evidence to show that it's directed in any way by any inherent intelligent cause that can be shown or proven to be responsible for the resulting mutation and adaptation.

[Thunderbird]

There is no doubt that the passing of DNA is a passing of information. There is no evidence to show that it's directed in any way by any inherent intelligent cause that can be shown or proven to be responsible for the resulting mutation and adaptation.

The ole creation accusation, *explitive deleted*, I'm done.

[Pyrotex]

I think it is becoming obvious that Tbird is not going to define his terms or do anything to make his point of view more accessible.

 

Do I smell a troll?? :rolleyes:

[Thunderbird]

I think it is becoming obvious that Tbird is not going to define his terms or do anything to make his point of view more accessible.

 

Do I smell a troll?? :rolleyes:

F you too ! :(

[Pyrotex]

F you too ! :)

 

Yes. And I received your personal message: "Hi Pyrotex, **** you!"

I note it did not contain a smiley face.

 

When someone of obvious intelligence and learning, such as yourself, carries on a contentious discussion for as long as you have, with no effort to make himself clear, and with repeated effort to generate ambiguity, confusion, duplicity and annoyance, then that someone is doing it on purpose.

 

That happens to be the definition of a "troll".

 

As it happens, trolls don't have any balls. So your ability to "f" me is seriously in question. :)

 

"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action." :D

[InfiniteNow]

Indeed. Now that Thunderbird has been sent on forced holiday, let's try to wrestle this thread back on topic.

 

 

Here is another fine presentation for those inclined to watch. It's a discussion on evolution, framed in the counter of ID. Well done, indeed, and I hope you enjoy it. :)

 

 

VIDEO: The Rockefeller University - A Symposium on Evolution

 

 

 

:(

[InfiniteNow]

Understanding Evolution

 

Understanding Evolution is a non-commercial, education website, teaching the science and history of evolutionary biology. This site is here to help you understand what evolution is, how it works, how it factors into your life, how research in evolutionary biology is performed, and how ideas in this area have changed over time.

[goku]

okay, so i've been farmin purty heavly the past few days but always thinking.

i began to wonder what is the purpose of the evolution theory. it can't be used in any way, nor does it help anything. when is the last time you heard it said, thanks to the evolution theory engineers where able to increase fuel mileage?

 

"to everything there is a season, a time for every purpose under heaven"

so what is the purpose of the evolution theory?

 

i've learned, from here, science fact doesn't mean anything. it could be right or wrong. but you take it on faith that no one would lie to you, that scientists only get paid for telling the truth, that school and college makes people smart.

 

i think it purdy much a fact that life is the chemical reaction between carbon and oxygen. now as soon as the reaction between oxygen and carbon is started it burns violently untill all the carbon and oxygen are combined.

 

so billions of years ago when the life reaction was started it would have went BOOM and that would have been the end of life.

 

now turn your attention to evolving. the only way to prove that is to compair two subjects one that evolved and one that did not

[C1ay]

i began to wonder what is the purpose of the evolution theory. it can't be used in any way, nor does it help anything.

 

OK, just remember when you go to get your flu shots to just ask for last years vaccine. It will be just as good for you since flu doesn't evolve and knowing that it does won't help you in any way. That way it will leave a dose of this years vaccine for someone else whom it could help since it wouldn't help you anyway.

 

[sarcasm]Yep, that science of evolution is pretty useless stuff....[/sarcasm]

 

Edit: Hey, who broke the sarcasm tags :hihi:

[modest]

okay, so i've been farmin purty heavly the past few days but always thinking.

i began to wonder what is the purpose of the evolution theory. it can't be used in any way, nor does it help anything.

 

As a farmer you should know better. Corn and wheat are fine examples of the usefulness of evolution. Over the last few thousand years they've changed drastically in oder to be useful to (and because of) people. The Breeding of domesticated species of plants shows the usefulness of natural selection. Many geneticists are employed in the field.

 

when is the last time you heard it said, thanks to the evolution theory engineers where able to increase fuel mileage?

 

This is not wrong. Thanks to evolution theory corn production increases and more ethanol is produced lowering the cost of biofuel.

 

i've learned, from here, science fact doesn't mean anything. it could be right or wrong. but you take it on faith that no one would lie to you,

 

Hopefully the reason you're here is so you don't have to take it on faith. Science works for anybody. If you learn the science then you can work it out yourself and you don't need to wonder if science (or any other institution) is lying to you. It is certainly one of the better things about science I'm fond of - you don't have to take it on faith.

 

-modest

[Overdog]

okay, so i've been farmin purty heavly the past few days but always thinking.

i began to wonder what is the purpose of the evolution theory. it can't be used in any way, nor does it help anything. when is the last time you heard it said, thanks to the evolution theory engineers where able to increase fuel mileage?

 

If your a farmer and you don't think it is useful, read this:

 

Billions at risk from wheat super-blight - earth - 03 April 2007 - New Scientist Environment

 

If it weren't for the insights into how biological systems come to be the way they are over time, insights that the theory of evolution gives us, we wouldn't have a clue as to how to deal with these kinds of things.