Thunderbird Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 I kind of fudge a little with time frame “the appearance of complex life,” but you know it had to have an effect on life example.. hemoglobin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 I kind of fudge a little with time frame “the appearance of complex life,” but you know it had to have an effect on life example.. hemoglobin. I agree oxygen did have an effect on life, see this thread. Evolution of complex metazoans - Science Forums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Selective breeding is actually a test of evolution and supports the theory well. it does not support the theory because it's not natural Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I asked for a source for your supposed "fact". I'm not yanking your chain. I honestly do not believe that you can find one. you need not a source, test it yourself. try beathing CO2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 you need not a source, test it yourself. try beathing CO2 Lots of organisms do quite well without oxygen, most of these will die if exposed to it. Some organisms respire using chemicals other than oxygen as an electron donor, a few can even use CO2 so what is your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted June 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I think his point is to ask the most challenging questions he can conceive. He wants to know if our answers are worth listening to. Goku, You know we are correct, brother.You know we are not lying to you.You know we have your own best interests at heart when we post. I appreciate your questions, because it forces us to try harder to explain ourselves. I can only hope that you also appreciate our explanations. Evolution is fact. The only people who think otherwise don't understand it very well. It's like challenging the comment that sex feels good. You don't need me to cite 48,000 peer reviewed journals to confirm that one. Evolution is fact. It works. If you think otherwise, then try explaining what we observe using a better alternative. :doh: A mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original dimensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I have a challenge for anyone that can think in evolutionary way, now keep in mind I am an evolutionist so the answer follows adaptation. How did the insect metamorphosis phases of pupa larva to flying winged insects evolve. It is still a bit of a puzzle. Now you will read about all the genetics involved, but what I would like to explore is the actual evolutionary adaptations that lead to the ability to encapsulate second stage of the cocooned pupa stage to the butterfly or winged stage. Any scenarios? Moved to Evolution of Metamorphosis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted June 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Thunderbird, Your question deserves it's own thread, and is not specific to the point I wished to discuss here. Please ask eslewhere if you'd be so kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Bacteria make major evolutionary shift in the lab A major evolutionary innovation has unfurled right in front of researchers' eyes. It's the first time evolution has been caught in the act of making such a rare and complex new trait.... But sometime around the 31,500th generation, something dramatic happened in just one of the populations – the bacteria suddenly acquired the ability to metabolise citrate, a second nutrient in their culture medium that E. coli normally cannot use. Indeed, the inability to use citrate is one of the traits by which bacteriologists distinguish E. coli from other species. The citrate-using mutants increased in population size and diversity. More at New Scientist... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeztar Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Bacteria make major evolutionary shift in the lab A major evolutionary innovation has unfurled right in front of researchers' eyes. It's the first time evolution has been caught in the act of making such a rare and complex new trait.... But sometime around the 31,500th generation, something dramatic happened in just one of the populations – the bacteria suddenly acquired the ability to metabolise citrate, a second nutrient in their culture medium that E. coli normally cannot use. Indeed, the inability to use citrate is one of the traits by which bacteriologists distinguish E. coli from other species. The citrate-using mutants increased in population size and diversity. More at New Scientist... Great link Clay, thanks for sharing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 it does not support the theory because it's not naturalgoku,you are trying so very, very hard to be contrary and obtuse. I'm sorry that the science of evolution is so hard for you. It may, in fact, make no sense to you at all. That does NOT mean that IT is nonsense. I'm sure that Orbital Mechanics would make no sense to you at all. But rockets still work, and satellites still go into orbit. Instead of throwing rocks at a target that is out of your reach, why not try starting a thread on something you DO have some expertise in. You say you are a farmer. Perhaps you know something about Selective Breeding that would be interesting and useful to the rest of us. I'm just suggesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted June 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 More helpful videos: Enjoy. :) YouTube - 6 -- Natural Selection Made Easy http://youtube.com/watch?v=R_RXX7pntr8 YouTube - 7 -- The Theory of Evolution Made Easy http://youtube.com/watch?v=7w57_P9DZJ4 YouTube - 8 -- Human Evolution Made Easy http://youtube.com/watch?v=MCayG4IIOEQ YouTube - 9 -- Human Ancestry Made Easy http://youtube.com/watch?v=8edyoZFW-Lg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Evolution is fact. It works. If you think otherwise, then try explaining what we observe using a better alternative. it's not a fact, it doesn't work and i do not think otherwise, i know otherwise.i'm trying to explain, but it's like talking to children or some one who speaks a different language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 The language of science ? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 it's not a fact, it doesn't work and i do not think otherwise, i know otherwise.i'm trying to explain, but it's like talking to children or some one who speaks a different language. Maybe you should try listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 it's not a fact, it doesn't work and i do not think otherwise, i know otherwise.i'm trying to explain, but it's like talking to children or some one who speaks a different language. Explain away goku, I'm listening and I'll be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 it's not a fact, it doesn't work and i do not think otherwise, i know otherwise. i'm trying to explain, but it's like talking to children or some one who speaks a different language.Goku,at this point, I'm not sure what to say to you. I do not want to offend or drive you off. I have read your posts carefully, and indeed, your explanations seem to be in a different language to me. In fact, they don't read like "explanations" at all. My two brothers and I were all raised in a fundementalist church. Any mention of evolution in the home was immediately jumped on by my Dad, and he ridiculed the very idea of evolution, often with scathing sarcasm. My two very dear brothers (whom I love) are still in that church, and as far as I can tell, have read nothing about evolution since. (Except for anti-E books published by the church.) I, on the other hand, explored every realm of science I could. Astronomy, chemistry, physics, quantum mechanics, particle physics, and yes, evolution. It all makes sense. It makes a much higher and purer form of "sense" than any of the churchy books we were raised on. When I question my brothers, it is obvious that they feel "dirty" or "soiled" at even listening in to a conversation on evolution. It feels "wrong" to them. It's a moral issue to them, not a truth issue. Your posts and viewpoints and arguments remind me so much of my brothers. They aren't stupid. One has a degree in biochemistry and the other in aeroframe engineering. We may be at an impasse here, unless we can find a "path" that goes around the abyss. It sure doesn't look like we're gonna cross over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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