Evolution is Fact

[Thunderbird]

"...and then of geologic late,

matter began to contemplate itself,

and wonder at its fate..."

 

“So walk I on uplands unbounded,I know that there is hope for that which though didst mold out of dust to have consort with things eternal."

THE SCROLL AT WADI QUMRAN, THE DEAD SEA, C. 0 CE

[InfiniteNow]

are you saying that a fire can learn? can teach other fires?

 

Speaking of fire:

 

Five Major Misconceptions about Evolution

 

Pharyngula: Four bad arguments against evolution

[coldcreation]

The chemical reactions responsible for evolution, for change, for mediating interactions, transformations—the mechanism of which partially hidden in the fabric of nature—may seem only marginally important at first glance, but they are in fact centrally important to understanding how metamorphosis of the small-scale structures of the universe actually work—to the formation of animate and inanimate objects; organic and inorganic substances, botanical and zoological species; including flickering fireflies, apathetic reptiles, shrieking primates and inquisitive human beings.

 

 

:)

 

 

 

CC

[goku]

i didn't say all chemical reactions.

 

fair enough, so which ones can learn?

[goku]

Continuing the metaphor, I urge you to join our bonfire, Goku.

 

what :naughty:

[Moontanman]

fair enough, so which ones can learn?

 

Probably the simplest would be organic catalysts that grow ever more complex as they react with each other.This growing complexity could be seen as the beginning of the transfer of information. Some proteans can transfer information and might have predated RNA and DNA as information coding molecules. There is no one simple chemical that can actually transfer knowledge, this is far to complex for a simple chemical reaction but as chemical reactions become more complex inside of life forms the life forms become more complex so does the information they transfer. This is not a go/no go process but a gradual one.

[modest]

Probably the simplest would be organic catalysts that grow ever more complex as they react with each other.

 

I believe catalysts are a good example of chemical reactions "learning". A very simple example is supersaturated sodium acetate. The solution has no crystals in it. When you add a crystal it will catalyze a chain reaction in effect "teaching" the sodium acetate in solution how to become crystal.

 

YouTube - Crystallization of homemade sodium acetate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Ywz1Q07Yg

 

~modest

[coldcreation]

I believe catalysts are a good example of chemical reactions "learning". A very simple example is supersaturated sodium acetate. The solution has no crystals in it. When you add a crystal it will catalyze a chain reaction in effect "teaching" the sodium acetate in solution how to become crystal.

~modest

 

Nice vid.

 

Here is an interesting study that complements your video:

 

Evolution of Life Shown in Fungus Molecule, The crystal structure of a molecule from a primitive fungus has served as a time machine to show researchers more about the evolution of life from the simple to the complex.

 

 

Looking at the crystal' date=' the scientists saw two things, Golden said. One was that this protein uses two completely different molecular surfaces to perform its two roles. The second is that the protein seems to perform the same job that RNA performed in other simple organisms.

 

"The crystal structure provides a snapshot of how, during evolution, protein molecules came to assist RNA molecules in their biological functions and ultimately assumed roles previously played by RNA," Golden said.

 

Before the crystallization, Lambowitz, Paukstelis and their research team at The University of Texas at Austin were involved in a long-term project to study the function of the basic cellular workhorse protein and other evolutionary fossils from the fungus. In earlier work, the scientists studied a different protein that showed how biochemical processes could progress from a world with RNA and protein to DNA...

 

"The RNA molecule in our study is capable of performing a specific chemical reaction on itself, but it requires a protein for this reaction to take place efficiently" [/quote']

 

 

And here too: The Origin of Life: Abiogenesis by Chemical Evolution?

 

How did life begin? What was the origin of the first carbon-based life on earth?

Scientists are proposing various theories for a natural origin of life by a process of abiogenesis (a non-biological production of life) that can be viewed as a chemical evolution from non-life to life...

 

Scientists usually propose a four-stage process of formation for the first life:

1A. formation of small organic molecules (amino acids' date=' nucleic acid bases,…),

1B. and these combine to make larger biomolecules (proteins, RNA, lipids,…),

2A. which self-organized, by a variety of interactions, into a semi-alive system

2B. that gradually transformed into a more sophisticated form, a living organism.[/quote']

[goku]

There is no one simple chemical that can actually transfer knowledge, this is far to complex for a simple chemical reaction

 

okay i think we're getting somewhere,

now think of all the chemical reactions that naturally occur on earth that are not organic

 

i can't think of any :shrug:

 

after billions of years the planet would reach a state of zero reactions because everything that could react, reacted

[InfiniteNow]

now think of all the chemical reactions that naturally occur on earth that are not organic

 

i can't think of any

 

New Finding Hints at Earliest Life on Earth - Science - redOrbit

[Moontanman]

okay i think we're getting somewhere,

now think of all the chemical reactions that naturally occur on earth that are not organic

 

i can't think of any :shrug:

 

after billions of years the planet would reach a state of zero reactions because everything that could react, reacted

 

Think again goku, (this is fun) there are plenty of chemical reactions on the earth that are not organic. I don't exactly know why you would think there is not and why this would be important but, lots of new chemical energy sources are created all the time by exposure of the crust to the molten core of the earth. The core of the earth (and it's mantle) are kept very hot (hotter than the surface of the sun at the Earths core) by radioactive decay (possibly even a natural nuclear reactor at the earths core). This radioactivity drives volcanism and other types of processes that create ever larger amounts of energy containing chemicals that life can use for energy to grow and multiply. Combine this with energy from the sun and you have what is essentially a limitless source of chemical energy for life to exploit.

[Overdog]

Yes, I would say it is probably true that the vast majority of chemical reactions that occur in the universe are not organic.

[goku]

there are plenty of chemical reactions on the earth that are not organic.

 

can you name one?

[Moontanman]

can you name one?

 

Lets see.....

 

Silver reacting with sulfur.

Sulfur reacting with iron.

Iron reacting with oxygen.

Hydrogen reacting with Nitrogen

Hydrogen reacting with oxygen

Hydrogen reacting with sulfur

Hydrogen reacting with carbon

Oxygen reacting with almost everything

chlorine reacting with almost anything

 

The list is far too large for me to list every possible inorganic chemical reaction on the Earth. What is your point?

[goku]

has any of these reactions learned to control themselves?

once joined something must separate them so they can join again or the reaction would stop.

 

how did carbon overcome this hurtle?

[Moontanman]

has any of these reactions learned to control themselves?

once joined something must separate them so they can join again or the reaction would stop.

 

how did carbon overcome this hurtle?

 

First of all, energy from the sun, radioactivity, heat and lightning provide energy to drive chemical reactions so your premise that chemical reactions must stop after they have all reacted together is false. Secondly Carbon naturally forms complex molecules with far greater ease than any other element. carbon chemistry is easily driven toward complexity by excess energy in the environment.

[InfiniteNow]

The list is far too large for me to list every possible inorganic chemical reaction on the Earth.

Indeed. Just to support your point:

 

Types of Inorganic Chemical Reactions

 

Elements and compounds react with each other in numerous ways. Memorizing every type of reaction would be challenging and also unncecessary, since nearly every inorganic chemical reaction falls into one or more of four broad categories.

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more at link

>

 

 

 

What is your point?

I presume he is searching for a gap which he can fill with "god."