Aquarium keeping natural/tecnological

[Moontanman]

If this is the wrong place for this thread feel free to move it. I would like to start a thread to discuss aquarium keeping in all it's varieties. I prefer what I call semi-natural aquariums in both marine and freshwater versions. In freshwater I use an over flow into a sump where I grow plants to clear out the water. I also keep numerous invertebrates in the sump so they can reproduce and create plankton fro the fish. I keep small to tiny fish and crustaceans in my tanks. I like to see large aquariums with populations of small animals so they can at least have a chance of acting as natural as possible. I also grow swamp trees in my aquariums, bald cypress, water tupelo, swamp apple and similar trees. I follow a similar pattern in marine aquaria as well. I do not mechanically filter any of my permanent aquariums.

[freeztar]

This thread is long overdue, so I'm glad you started it MM.

 

I'm still waiting on photos of the bald cypress and tupelo (bonsais) you have growing. :confused:

 

Unfortunately, I don't think I can add much to the thread, but I'll follow it with interest. :hihi:

[Moontanman]

This thread is long overdue, so I'm glad you started it MM.

 

I'm still waiting on photos of the bald cypress and tupelo (bonsais) you have growing. :confused:

 

Unfortunately, I don't think I can add much to the thread, but I'll follow it with interest. :hihi:

 

If I get my scanner hooked back up before I get too old to care I'll see what I can do about the pictures, to be honest I know I have a lot of aquarium pictures but I'm not completly sure I have any of the cypress bonsia. Sad to say my bonsia didn't make it when I moved. This is the second time I have lost all my trees. the first time was when I got a new dog who went out and pulled all my swamp rees out of my ponds and chewed them up. this time I had to pull them out of my aquariums and put them in buckets but they were ignored too long (I know, beat me with a stick) and they dried up. New ones will be grown but I hate to loose trees. Sadly I'm not much for taking pictures but if their is enough interest I'll try to document the growth of a new batch of cypress. It does take about five years to get a good one going from seeds but I can harvest trees from an area where they will be cut down by developement and get ahead of the game. I am anxious to get this going, I have a lot of things I do with aquariums I think people will really be interested in trying.

[Essay]

Keep at it, MTM....

 

The pictures in my mind are good enough for now....

:confused:

[Moontanman]

I will start out by explaining the steps I take to set up an aquarium (but not all at once;))

 

#1. First you have to have an idea of what type of aquarium you want to set up. Big fish, little fish, do you want to mimic a complete ecosystem or do you want a totally artificial tank with florescent pink gravel? For me the eco-mimic is the only way to go. To set up a real ecosystem I would have to rip out the side of my house, possibly even reorient my house in relation to the sun so lets not get too far into fantasy land:hihi:

#2. I like to build my own aquaria to match both the space available and the use I intend to put the aquarium to. Right now I have an existing 125 gallon tank I built 23 years ago that is still in good shape.

#3. Decide on how you plan to filter the water. I use a 55 gallon sump with a five gallon pump container. I plan to grow a dense cover of Azzola carolinias in the sump and stock it with dwarf crayfish, ghost shrimp, amphipods, isopods, cyclops, daphnia, and clams.

#4. Plan ahead for what you want the tank to look like. I plan to glue lava rock to the back of the tank to make a porous rock wall that will serve both as a back drop and growing place for creeping plants but also a refugium for tiny crustaceans so that they can hide from the fish. It's important to give tiny animals a place to hide and reproduce. I often start months or even years in advance by picking up small stones, drift wood or even aging green wood when I find pieces that are hollow or other wise interesting in shape or color. I plan to use black sugar sized sand (Tahitian Moon Sand) I have been collecting rock from various places and I have several pieces of water worn coal, drift wood, a bright white piece of solidified weathered polyester polymer. (very cool looking)

 

I know this seems complex but it's really only wordy, more later on. (and you thought you were an aquarium fanatic:eek_big:) Since I do much of this stuff on an ongoing basis it's not difficult for me to have a supply of Rocks, drift wood, and other things already at hand. many pet shops sell rocks and wood but I like to know where very peice came from:shrug: OC for sure!

[Ahmabeliever]

Your methods are both excellent and inspiring.

 

I run aquaponics in aquariums and a small pond I have. My method is to provide variety with plants and aquatic life as well but I do not have the range of critters I'd like, one of the problems being habitat, which you so wisely point out should go into the planning stage, the other being acquiring them.

 

The pond is 600 litres with another 200 litres in the system comprised mainly of ebb and flow beds. The pond only has goldfish and guppies, all the shrimp and snails got eaten. I'll be adding some small eels soon. Pond also has a tropical lily gifted from a friend that adds lots of shade in Summer and dissapears in winter, I like it!

 

The water is pumped with a 2400 lph pump into garden beds, a few types, mainly scoria (lava rock). I have 3 types tomatoes, capsicum, chillies, cucumbers, peas, 3 types basil, 2 types thyme, stevia, parsley, italian parsley, oregano, tarragon, chives, spring onions, sage and watercress growing in the beds. Worms live in the beds and consume leaf debris, solid wastes and root matter of plants I remove.

 

All of this situated in a greenhouse with a recycled (crazy) concrete floor to add to the thermal stability of all that water. Running close to 18 months now, so far so good, no cleaning required, no heating required though I'd like solar the site doesn't warrant it. Few plumbing hiccups I'm a learner. I like to call these instances 'involuntary water changes'.

 

Scaled this concept down into an aquarium (years before the greenhouse). Small fish and small critters make less mess and so I placed a garden the same size as a fish tank above the tank and after I got it worked out it runs as sweet and clean as the big ones. All insulated in a nice looking wooden cabinet with a tropical tank heater.

 

Screwed it up for about 12 months but ironed it out. Basically, the inputs of food must be matched by the outputs of plants, and the more creatures recycling the food and waste products, the cleaner it runs. Age just improves the system. I'm selling them soon and recommending a partial water change annually just for my peace of mind.

 

Pretty cocky I know, I've spent 7 years stuying these and their prototypes I worked hard at it for a long time because I don't ever want to sell crap to anyone, these things kick ***!

 

Feed the fish, top the water, eat the salad and herbs. Mmmm herbs. :shrug:

 

After I'd made a couple of these things and thought I was pretty clever (so what's new) I met a scientist who had systems much like moontanmans and I was way impressed. Showed me all sorts of insects he was raising on wastes and then after seeing about 50 aquariums with fish that were till then only photos to me we took a trip around acres of ponds he's sculpted into existing wetlands where he spawns many thousands of rare native fish. :hihi:

 

Picked a few tips up there I visit him with a notebook now :confused:

 

I like to run 'clean systems', meaning, I do not have to clean anything myself.

 

Natural systems seem by far the easiest, for me, and aquaponics fits in nicely as I love gardening and fresh food too. NZ laws suck concerning fish species I'm allowed, I want to raise fish I can eat as well, only get the eels cos I've got mates... :hihi:

[Moontanman]

Your methods are both excellent and inspiring.

 

I run aquaponics in aquariums and a small pond I have. My method is to provide variety with plants and aquatic life as well but I do not have the range of critters I'd like, one of the problems being habitat, which you so wisely point out should go into the planning stage, the other being acquiring them.

 

The pond is 600 litres with another 200 litres in the system comprised mainly of ebb and flow beds. The pond only has goldfish and guppies, all the shrimp and snails got eaten. I'll be adding some small eels soon. Pond also has a tropical lily gifted from a friend that adds lots of shade in Summer and dissapears in winter, I like it!

 

The water is pumped with a 2400 lph pump into garden beds, a few types, mainly scoria (lava rock). I have 3 types tomatoes, capsicum, chillies, cucumbers, peas, 3 types basil, 2 types thyme, stevia, parsley, italian parsley, oregano, tarragon, chives, spring onions, sage and watercress growing in the beds. Worms live in the beds and consume leaf debris, solid wastes and root matter of plants I remove.

 

All of this situated in a greenhouse with a recycled (crazy) concrete floor to add to the thermal stability of all that water. Running close to 18 months now, so far so good, no cleaning required, no heating required though I'd like solar the site doesn't warrant it. Few plumbing hiccups I'm a learner. I like to call these instances 'involuntary water changes'.

 

Scaled this concept down into an aquarium (years before the greenhouse). Small fish and small critters make less mess and so I placed a garden the same size as a fish tank above the tank and after I got it worked out it runs as sweet and clean as the big ones. All insulated in a nice looking wooden cabinet with a tropical tank heater.

 

Screwed it up for about 12 months but ironed it out. Basically, the inputs of food must be matched by the outputs of plants, and the more creatures recycling the food and waste products, the cleaner it runs. Age just improves the system. I'm selling them soon and recommending a partial water change annually just for my peace of mind.

 

Pretty cocky I know, I've spent 7 years stuying these and their prototypes I worked hard at it for a long time because I don't ever want to sell crap to anyone, these things kick ***!

 

Feed the fish, top the water, eat the salad and herbs. Mmmm herbs. :shrug:

 

After I'd made a couple of these things and thought I was pretty clever (so what's new) I met a scientist who had systems much like moontanmans and I was way impressed. Showed me all sorts of insects he was raising on wastes and then after seeing about 50 aquariums with fish that were till then only photos to me we took a trip around acres of ponds he's sculpted into existing wetlands where he spawns many thousands of rare native fish. :hihi:

 

Picked a few tips up there I visit him with a notebook now :confused:

 

I like to run 'clean systems', meaning, I do not have to clean anything myself.

 

Natural systems seem by far the easiest, for me, and aquaponics fits in nicely as I love gardening and fresh food too. NZ laws suck concerning fish species I'm allowed, I want to raise fish I can eat as well, only get the eels cos I've got mates... :hihi:

 

From my point of veiw you are lucky in teh invert departmen. I know you guys have crayfish and ghost shrimp. Amphipods and isopods are pretty much global so i know you have them. You also have the wolrds only freshwater spider crab there as well!

Your system is interesting, I am limited to space now days but if i had my greenhouse again I would give it a try. I have access to many rare species from where I live. the laws here are slack to a great extent and I get to collect with the State marine resources people and they take to places where some really unusual things live. I was around when a new species of dwarf mudpuppy was being studied and I got several specimens. Small, pink, and easy to keep. I'll send more about the set up of my tank later today.

[Tormod]

This is an excellent topic for a social group IMHO. Soon it will be possible to have dedicated forums per group as well (if things go as I plan).

 

I used to have an aquarium but managed to kill all the fish so I classify myself as a complete n00b when it comes to keeping live animals of any kind.

[Ahmabeliever]

You aint a real fish keeper till you've killed a few fish.

 

I have about 50 ghost shrimp - paratya. In a barrel with some compost and leaves and a couple of guppies to keep mossies out. I top the water with rainwater and use the barrel for more thermal mass in the greenhouse and to water various pot plants so a portion gets changed out. Easy to keep but they aren't easy to breed needing a higher salinity than I'm willing to give my plants. Might have another crack at it one day in a tank.

 

Few of these snails too. Fine in NZ conditions...

 

Attack of the clones ;)

[Moontanman]

You aint a real fish keeper till you've killed a few fish.

 

I have about 50 ghost shrimp - paratya. In a barrel with some compost and leaves and a couple of guppies to keep mossies out. I top the water with rainwater and use the barrel for more thermal mass in the greenhouse and to water various pot plants so a portion gets changed out. Easy to keep but they aren't easy to breed needing a higher salinity than I'm willing to give my plants. Might have another crack at it one day in a tank.

 

Few of these snails too. Fine in NZ conditions...

 

Attack of the clones ;)

 

The ghost shrimp I have live in very soft black water habitats. Either there are several different species or several differnt versions of the same species.

[Ahmabeliever]

Several species of glass shrimp. My buddy with enviable fish collections has some marine shrimp that are clear but grow up to 12 cm! Mine get to 5-6 maximum.

 

The paratya are androgenous (most of them). They start off as boys and become girls later.

[Moontanman]

Several species of glass shrimp. My buddy with enviable fish collections has some marine shrimp that are clear but grow up to 12 cm! Mine get to 5-6 maximum.

 

The paratya are androgenous (most of them). They start off as boys and become girls later.

 

Starting off as boys and becoming girls isn't that unusual, fish do the same thing (are paratya fish?) We have large (eating size:)) freshwater shrimp here as well. Not to mention marine shrimp are a local industry worth many millions of dollars every year. As are oysters, clams, scallops, and lots of other unusual types of shell fish that most people never see. (pen oysters are my fav) big seafood place around here.

[Moontanman]

#5. setting up the tank and stand and sump lights. I use florescent shop lights over the sump four 40 watt bulbs suspended about four inches above the water level. I also use a smaller chamber next to the sump (about five gallons) to house the pump. A siphon transfers water from the sump to the pump chamber. A over flow baffle in the pump chamber keeps the water in the sump at a constant level.

 

#6. interior set up, I use a special soil mix under the sand about one half inch thick with about three inches of sand in front to around five inches of sand in the back of the tank. The soil mix consists of...

 

Aquarium Soil Mix Ratios

 

2 Pt. Peat Compost

1 Pt. Red Clay

1 Pt. Oak Leaves (ground)

3 Pt. Lava Rock Flour

2 Pt. Ground charcoal, (not briquettes)

 

Once you have your back round in place and the sand in place it's time to put in decorations. I use lots of drift wood and water worn coal. I like dark colors because they make the fishes color more intense. (for some reason the opposite works better for marine fish.)

 

#7. Light Hood, I usually use two or three 175 watt metal halides for lighting but this time I am planning to use xenon lighting. It will take around six to nine of these lights but I am hoping they will put off less heat and more light.

 

More later

[Moontanman]

Please fell free to post any critiques or your own idea's, everyone has there own way and I am interested in reading about them.

[Moontanman]

I will start out by explaining the steps I take to set up an aquarium.

 

#1. First you have to have an idea of what type of aquarium you want to set up. Big fish, little fish, do you want to mimic a complete ecosystem or do you want a totally artificial tank with florescent pink gravel? For me the eco-mimic is the only way to go. To set up a real ecosystem I would have to rip out the side of my house, possibly even reorient my house in relation to the sun so lets not get too far into fantasy land

 

#2. I like to build my own aquaria to match both the space available and the use I intend to put the aquarium to. Right now I have an existing 125 gallon tank I built 23 years ago that is still in good shape.

 

#3. Decide on how you plan to filter the water. I use a 55 gallon sump with a five gallon pump container. I plan to grow a dense cover of Azzola carolinias in the sump and stock it with dwarf crayfish, ghost shrimp, amphipods, isopods, cyclops, daphnia, and clams.

 

#4. Plan ahead for what you want the tank to look like. I plan to glue lava rock to the back of the tank to make a porous rock wall that will serve both as a back drop and growing place for creeping plants but also a refugium for tiny crustaceans so that they can hide from the fish. It's important to give tiny animals a place to hide and reproduce. I often start months or even years in advance by picking up small stones, drift wood or even aging green wood when I find pieces that are hollow or other wise interesting in shape or color. I plan to use black sugar sized sand (Tahitian Moon Sand) I have been collecting rock from various places and I have several pieces of water worn coal, drift wood, a bright white piece of solidified weathered polyester polymer. (very cool looking)

 

I know this seems complex but it's really only wordy, more later on. (and you thought you were an aquarium fanatic ) Since I do much of this stuff on an ongoing basis it's not difficult for me to have a supply of Rocks, drift wood, and other things already at hand. many pet shops sell rocks and wood but I like to know where very peice came from OC for sure!

 

 

#5. setting up the tank and stand and sump lights. I use florescent shop lights over the sump four 40 watt bulbs suspended about four inches above the water level. I also use a smaller chamber next to the sump (about five gallons) to house the pump. A siphon transfers water from the sump to the pump chamber. A over flow baffle in the pump chamber keeps the water in the sump at a constant level.

 

#6. interior set up, I use a special soil mix under the sand about one half inch thick with about three inches of sand in front to around five inches of sand in the back of the tank. The soil mix consists of...

 

Aquarium Soil Mix Ratios

 

2 Pt. Peat Compost

1 Pt. Red Clay

1 Pt. Oak Leaves (ground)

3 Pt. Lava Rock Flour

2 Pt. Ground charcoal, (not briquettes)

 

Once you have your back round in place and the sand in place it's time to put in decorations. I use lots of drift wood and water worn coal. I like dark colors because they make the fishes color more intense. (for some reason the opposite works better for marine fish.)

 

#7. Light Hood, I usually use two or three 175 watt metal halides for lighting but this time I am planning to use xenon lighting. It will take around six to nine of these lights but I am hoping they will put off less heat and more light.

 

In time I will try to download pictures to help explain more clearly what I am talking about .

 

#8. Bring your tank and stand into the house and mount the lights over your tank. Going with commercial lighting will be much easier but more expensive. Spread out a layer of the soil mix about ½” deep evenly across the bottom of the tank. Get a piece of fiberglass window screen and cut a piece about one inch bigger than the inside bottom of your tank. Split each corner at a 45 degree angle about ½ inch into the screen. Place this screen on top of the soil mix and bring up the sides of the screen. They should stick up about ½ inch above the soil. Spread in your sand of choice to a depth of 4 inches across the bottom of the aquarium.

 

#9. Hook up all your plumbing, make sure all the over flow drains connect with the sump and the sump is connected to the pump chamber. Spread out a piece of newspaper across maybe one third of the bottom of the aquarium and pour water onto the news paper. This will keep the sand from being stirred up by the water flow. Fill the aquarium up to the over flow, then you can start adding your decorations. In my case this will be several pieces of water worn coal, drift wood (already water logged), and various rocks. Complete the fill up, turn on your pump and allow the water to circulate for about 24 hours.

 

#10. After you have made sure everything circulates the way you want you can add your plants. Tall plants should be added to the back of the tank and short plants to the foreground. These decorations should please you, no one can tell you what plants to use or what rocks drift wood or other things to add. I plan to add various aquatic mosses to the back layer of lava rocks on the back of the tank. I also like Cape Fear spadder docks, red lotus, amazon swords, any thing with lots of big leaves and I like red plants as well.

 

#11. I like to allow my plants to establish themselves fro about a month before I add fishes. I plan to add fish from the following list.

 

Cetopsis cf. Montana 7M 6.b x2

Synodontis multimaculatus 7M 6.b x2

Cetopsidium cf. pemon 7M 6.b x2

Hummingbird catfish 7M 6.b x1

Tatia perugiae 7T 6.a x2

Cetopsis umbrosa 5M 6.b x3

DEBAUWI CATS 9M 5.a x4

GLASS CATS 7T 5.b x4

CLOWN PLECOSTOMUS 3S 7.a x3

UPSIDE DOWN CAT 7S 6.b x5

PANDA OR SKUNK CORY CAT 5B 6.c x1

BANJO CATS 3B 8.b x2

BUMBLE BEE CATS 3B 7a x3

Microsynodontis batesii

African Bumblebee catfish 3B 7.b x2

FLAGTAIL PORTHOLE CATS 3B 8.a x2

Hyalobagrus flavus 7M 7.a x2

 

COOLIE LOACH 5B 7.a x4

DWARF BOTIA 5B 7.a x4

Dwarf Indian puffer 5M 8.a x2

 

OCTICULATUS ALGEA EATER 7S 7.a x5

 

CHERRY BARB 5M 5.a x5

 

BUMBLE BEE GOBIE 5B 5.a x5

DWARF GOURAMI 3M 8.a x1

CELEBES RAINBOW FISH 9M 7.a x3

CELEBES HALF BEAK 3T 8.b x3

CARDINAL TETRA 12M 6.a x5

GLOW LIGHT TETRA 7M 6.c x2

RUMMY NOSE TETRA 9M 6.c x3

SILVER TIP TETRA 7M 6.c x2

MARBLED HATCHET FISH 7T 6.c x3

Galaxy Rasbora 9M 6.c x3

Blue tetra 7M 6.b x3

 

MOSQUITO FISH 36T 4.a x2

WHITE CLOUDS 12M 4.b x3

Tongue sole F/W 3B 7.a x3

FLOUNDER F/W 3B 7.a x3

GLASS KNIFE FISH 1A 8.a x5

ELEPHANT NOSE FISH 1B 8.b x3

BABY WHALES 5A 8.b x3

 

STURGEON 3B 9.a x1

ROPE FISH 3B 9.a x1

DRAGON EEL 3B 9.a x1

DWARF MUDPUPPY 3B 7.a x2

Dwarf sirens 3B 7.a x3

 

GLASS SHRIMP 36 3.b x3

CLAMS 12 3.b x1

MUSSELS 12 3.b x1

CRABS 12 3.a x5

Dwarf Crayfish 12 3.a x5

BEE SHRIMP 24 3.a x10

 

Isopods TNTC 2.b

Gammerus TNTC 2.b

Rotifers TNTC 2.a

Daphnia TNTC 2.a

Cyclops TNTC 2.a

Black worms TNTC 2.a

Tubifex worms TNTC 2.a

 

Substrate NOEQ 1.a

Plants NOEQ 1.a

Trees NOEQ 1.b

Green Water NOEQ 1.b

 

Plant list

 

cypress

pond apple

water tupelo

roughleaf dogwood

 

barclay longafolia

spadder dock

dwarf umbrella palm

pickeral plant

dwarf cattail

sweet flag

dwarf swords

bannana plant

water poppy

snow flake

yellow fringe

dwarf water bamboo

water iris purple

 

amicules

 

eugalina

rotafers

chorella

red algea

stentors

inforazoans

 

animals

 

amphipods large and small

isopods large and small

cypris

daphnia magna

ghost shrimp

jap shrimp

atydid shrimp

dwarf crayfish

 

 

Of course all these fishes and plants will not fit into this 125 gallon tank but it is a working list of what I like and I can select from these lists as I find them in pet shops. Even better I also have the choice of collecting native fishes from my area. What you put in your tank is up to you, just make sure you add the tiny animals first and the bigger fish last. If all goes well I will be adding fish within three months of start up. I will add the tiny crustaceans and planktonic animals after about a month of plant growth. I will not add anyfish until my sump has a complete growth of Azzola across the top of the water to help purify the water. I know this isn’t complete but I will be glad to answer any questions and I look forward to reading your own idea’s.

If anyone is interested I will try to down load photos of this process as I do it.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Freezy- This thread is long overdue, so I'm glad you started it MM.

YUP!!!

 

I like to call these instances 'involuntary water changes'.

A river runnin wild all over the living room makes one hell of a mess! One of my pumps blew a line draining my 75gal. tank plus both 55gal. plastic drums one of which served as a stabiliser (more gallons = slower water chemistry changes) one as a gravel filter. It litterally took an entire week to get things dry again.

 

Amabeliever- I like to run 'clean systems', meaning, I do not have to clean anything myself.

Yep...much better to let things balance out and take care of themselves than to have to bust your buns scraping glass, cleaning and changing carbons every week or so followed by vaccuuming fish poopies:hihi:

 

My 75 which houses my 12 year old mamma and pappa Tiger Oscars has only needed the occasional top off once every couple of weeks or so for years now.(And yes I moniter my water chemistry) I don't dink around with carbon or any of that other junk. It has 5" of plain old creek gravel and assorted natural (found while rock hunting in local streams and along the shore of Lake Erie) "rocks of interest"(pretty ones) providing mechanical filtration via an undergravel plate. The return is fed through an undergravel plate which is covered with lake sand in a 30gal. Duckweed and ancheris take care of the final pollish before overflowing back to the 75.

 

Sadly their offspring aren't enjoying as good a luck in their tank...I'm pretty sure all fishkeepers suffer "perfect setup madness"(The desire to achieve a perfect closed/semi-closed loop self maintaining environment leading to increasingly more elaborate kit)...in any case I do and they are the unfortunate test subjects (I don't let it get bad but they don't seem to appreciate the constant weekly/bi-weekly intrusions for pest control ,water checks and changes.).

[Moontanman]

You should try a couple hundred gallons of salt water spewing out into a carpeted room! You just can't fix that! I've built aquariums from 90 gallons to 3500 gallons. aquarium keeping never gets old, just more and more interesting! The fish and plants list I have posted were meant for a 1200 gallon tank that was in the works as a addition to a new room I was planning. Needless to say it didn't happen. It would have been outside the room with just the face of the aquarium in the room and the rest of the tank would have been outside in a small greenhouse. Yeah I know fanatic:hyper: