Bacterial alchemy

[freeztar]

Yes, it is a well documented theory that biological and geological processes were both the source of most if not all heavy metal deposits, even concentrations of gold are thought to be the result of biology working various oxides and sulfides, sulfates and organometalic hydrocarbons of metals in the crust as these chemicals welled up from within the crust. I am not talking about rarified deposits but the places where very concentrated even pure metals are found. Some think even the more rarified deposits are from such processes but only the very concentrated or pure deposits can be actually shown to be from these processes.

 

I've honestly never heard of this. If you can point me to some sources on this subject, it would be greatly appreciated. :shrug:

[Moontanman]

I've honestly never heard of this. If you can point me to some sources on this subject, it would be greatly appreciated. :shrug:

 

this is the best I could do in a few minutes of searching, I've read this many times in science magazines but so far I can't seem to get a good grip on it online. I may not be using the correct search parameters. the gist of the theory says that much of the easily mined native metal deposits and very concentrated deposits are due to bacteria using metal sulfates as an energy source in undersea vents that are eventually raised up as sea floors rise into mountains. these deposits have the same characteristics as modern deep sea vents. I wish I had the magazines to do better research. You might have better luck, I'll continue to search this. What I have found collaborates the theory but it is a little more vague than I am comfortable with.

 

USGS Fact Sheet: The Escanaba Trough of Gorda Ridge: A Laboratory for Mineral-forming Processes

 

Bacteria Precipitate Gold

 

<Gold from the Sea

[freeztar]

this is the best I could do in a few minutes of searching, I've read this many times in science magazines but so far I can't seem to get a good grip on it online. I may not be using the correct search parameters. the gist of the theory says that much of the easily mined native metal deposits and very concentrated deposits are due to bacteria using metal sulfates as an energy source in undersea vents that are eventually raised up as sea floors rise into mountains. these deposits have the same characteristics as modern deep sea vents. I wish I had the magazines to do better research. You might have better luck, I'll continue to search this. What I have found collaborates the theory but it is a little more vague than I am comfortable with.

 

USGS Fact Sheet: The Escanaba Trough of Gorda Ridge: A Laboratory for Mineral-forming Processes

 

This link says nothing about what you are proposing.

Bacteria Precipitate Gold

This is interesting research, but it does nothing to show that Gold is a result of biological processes.

<Gold from the Sea

 

Same as above. The ability of bacteria to precipitate gold out of a mineral rich aqueous solution does not mean that the gold is of biological origin.

[Ahmabeliever]

Bacteria 'making gold' suggests that the 'ingredients' for making gold are present where these extremophiles live.

 

People have tried to make gold forever. They cannot. It is an element - Au - not something that can be made of a mix of other elements.

[Turtle]

Bacteria 'making gold' suggests that the 'ingredients' for making gold are present where these extremophiles live.

 

People have tried to make gold forever. They cannot. It is an element - Au - not something that can be made of a mix of other elements.

 

[This thread is so off topic already, I thought this couldn't hurt any worse. :(]

 

This reference neatly clarifies the action as 'assembly' of gold structures by bacteria. Fascinating! :eek:

 

...The bacteria don't actually ''make'' the gold - they just attract gold that is already dissolved in the groundwater. Now we have absolutely no idea why these bacteria can purify gold to almost 24 carat purity. But maybe now we know what happened to Midas in the old Greek fable, when everything he touched turned to gold. He might have been a victim of accidental genetic engineering, when he got infected with some Pedomicrobium bacteria. And perhaps there's a moral for us. If you try to get too much gold, it will just suffocate you.

BACTERIA MAKE GOLD

[Moontanman]

Bacteria 'making gold' suggests that the 'ingredients' for making gold are present where these extremophiles live.

 

People have tried to make gold forever. They cannot. It is an element - Au - not something that can be made of a mix of other elements.

 

I never said Bactria "made gold" they are responsible for concentrating several metals in the Earths crust. Copper zince lead and silver are probably the most common of the "bio-enahanced" metal deposits. Gold is probably the least likely behind things like alluminum and platium. I have been googleing this for a while now and all I get is bits and peices of the picture or directions to buy a book all about it. If I can get access I'll try to search the Scientific American magazine site but I think i have to pay to access it. I know I did see a show on the histiory channel that talked about the earliest metals used by man as being deposites that were made by bacteria concentrating various metals by using the sulfides or sulfates of these metals as an energy source. these bactria can leave behind pure metal deposits. Even mercury is thought to be concentrated in thsi way. Biology doesn't do this alone, geology is also part of the process. The old geology worked by biology argument I guess. This can be seen in modern times at the deep sea vents called black smokers. I might not be serching with the correct parameters, I am bad for not getting the basic words to find info correctly.

[Moontanman]

More on bactria and metal ores

 

http://www.geobacter.org/press/2001-07-21-economist.pdf

 

Argonne News 12/04/00

 

BACTERIA WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MAGNITUDE OF THE WORLD-CLASS HYDROTHERMAL BASE METAL SULFIDE OREBODY AT NAVAN, IRELAND -- Fallick et al. 96 (4): 885 -- Economic Geology

 

BIOGEOCHEMISTRY: Sulfate Reducers--Dominant Players in a Low-Oxygen World? -- Vasconcelos and McKenzie 290 (5497): 1711 -- Science

[CraigD]

I never said Bactria "made gold" they are responsible for concentrating several metals in the Earths crust.

That’s what I though MTman meant when I first read these posts. :shrug: Rather than “bacterial alchemy”, a more accurate if less catchy title for this thread would be “bacterial element sorting”. ;)

 

It’s useful, I think, to consider the observed relative abundance of the elements in the Sun and Solar System. Here are a couple of lists taken from This wikipedia page, which takes the data I used from several sources by Thomas Aherns.

 

Here’s the abundance of all the observed elements

Abundance                        Element (#,symbol,name)
.9098509500698236616             1 H hydrogen
.08870231484551685877            2 He helium
.0007761452548982725142          8 O oxygen
.0003293725661543089241          6 C carbon
.000112182339363447792           10 Ne neon
.0001020728843626719735          7 N nitrogen
.00003502436990591364203         12 Mg magnesium
.00003261114516379296278         14 Si silicon
.0000293500306474136665          26 Fe iron
.00001679473975935337583         16 S sulfur
.000003293725661543089241        18 Ar argon
.00000276868622440602254         13 Al aluminium
.000001992540969507750026        20 Ca calcium
.000001871879732401716064        11 Na sodium
.000001607729456574993065        28 Ni nickel
.0000004402504597112049976       24 Cr chromium
.0000003391559097034468129       15 P phosphorus
.0000003114364363142227946       25 Mn manganese
.000000170882400658275125        17 Cl chlorine
.0000001229440172674994697       19 K potassium
.00000007826674839310311068      22 Ti titanium
.00000007337507661853416626      27 Co cobalt
.00000004109004290637913311      30 Zn zinc
.00000002749119537307746763      9 F fluorine
.00000001702301777549992657      29 Cu copper
.0000000095550655329913381       23 V vanadium
.000000003880726274491362571     32 Ge germanium
.000000002025152114671542989     34 Se selenium
.000000001862096388852578175     3 Li lithium
.000000001467501532370683325     36 Kr krypton
.000000001232701287191373993     31 Ga gallium
.000000001115301164601719327     21 Sc scandium
.0000000007663619113491346254    38 Sr strontium
.000000000691356277472410811     5 B boron
.0000000003848115129327569608    35 Br bromine
.0000000003717670548672397757    40 Zr zirconium
.0000000002312130192112921061    37 Rb rubidium
.0000000002139291122744818358    33 As arsenic
.000000000156859608237844151     52 Te tellurium
.0000000001532723822698269251    54 Xe xenon
.0000000001513157135599993473    39 Y yttrium
.0000000001464240417854304029    56 Ba barium
.0000000001245745745256891178    50 Sn tin
.0000000001027251072659478328    82 Pb lead
.00000000008315842016767205509   42 Mo molybdenum
.00000000006065673000465491077   44 Ru ruthenium
.00000000005250394371370667008   48 Cd cadmium
.00000000004532949177767221827   46 Pd palladium
.00000000004369893451948257013   78 Pt platinum
.00000000003704626090606880572   58 Ce cerium
.0000000000293500306474136665    53 I iodine
.00000000002699876708110419389   60 Nd neodymium
.00000000002380613596956886283   4 Be beryllium
.00000000002276257932432748802   41 Nb niobium
.00000000002201252298556024988   76 Os osmium
.0000000000215559669532671484    77 Ir iridium
.00000000001584901654960337991   47 Ag silver
.0000000000145445707430516614    57 La lanthanum
.00000000001285531342356718593   66 Dy dysprosium
.00000000001213134600093098215   55 Cs caesium
.0000000000112182339363447792    45 Rh rhodium
.00000000001108778935568960735   80 Hg mercury
.00000000001076167790405167772   64 Gd gadolinium
.0000000000100768438556120255    51 Sb antimony
.00000000000842019768129134299   62 Sm samarium
.000000000008178875207079275066  68 Er erbium
.000000000008084302886104275474  70 Yb ytterbium
.00000000000609828414562928404   79 Au gold
.000000000006000450710137905152  81 Tl thallium
.000000000006000450710137905152  49 In indium
.000000000005442800127837045488  59 Pr praseodymium
.000000000005022116355224116268  72 Hf hafnium
.000000000004696004903586186641  83 Bi bismuth
.00000000000433728230678446405   74 W tungsten
.000000000003173064424437055279  63 Eu europium
.000000000002899130805061194391  67 Ho holmium
.000000000001966452053376715656  65 Tb terbium
.000000000001685996204968096176  75 Re rhenium
.000000000001232701287191373993  69 Tm thulium
.000000000001196829027511201734  71 Lu lutetium
.000000000001092473362987064253  90 Th thorium
.0000000000006750507048905143296 73 Ta tantalum
.000000000000293500306474136665  92 U uranium

Here, H and He are excluded

.5364805644987555418             8 O oxygen
.2276661219091357551             6 C carbon
.0775417286502402968             10 Ne neon
.07055395659164306075            7 N nitrogen
.02420924900301106941            12 Mg magnesium
.02254120018902334209            14 Si silicon
.02028708017012100788            26 Fe iron
.01160871809734702118            16 S sulfur
.002276661219091357551           18 Ar argon
.001913747896048081744           13 Al aluminium
.001377267331549326202           20 Ca calcium
.001293864890849939836           11 Na sodium
.001111281169318850765           28 Ni nickel
.0003043062025518151183          24 Cr chromium
.0002344284819658427578          15 P phosphorus
.000215268461805172917           25 Mn manganese
.0001181158889904823126          17 Cl chlorine
.00008498032471261799969         19 K potassium
.00005409888045365602102         22 Ti titanium
.00005071770042530251971         27 Co cobalt
.00002840191223816941104         30 Zn zinc
.00001900223175934667738         9 F fluorine
.00001176650649867018457         29 Cu copper
.000006604571655383839233        23 V vanadium
.000002682402822493777709        32 Ge germanium
.000001399808531738349544        34 Se selenium
.000001287102530793232834        3 Li lithium
.000001014354008506050394        36 Kr krypton
.0000008520573671450823311       31 Ga gallium
.0000007709090464645982996       21 Sc scandium
.0000005297182044420485392       38 Sr strontium
.0000004778734440072948524       5 B boron
.0000002659861622304754367       35 Br bromine
.0000002569696821548660999       40 Zr zirconium
.0000001598171093401754954       37 Rb rubidium
.0000001478702732399931241       33 As arsenic
.0000001084231729092022755       52 Te tellurium
.0000001059436408884097078       54 Xe xenon
.0000001045911688770683073       39 Y yttrium
.000000101209988848714806        56 Ba barium
.0000000861073847220691668       50 Sn tin
.00000007100478059542352759      82 Pb lead
.00000005748006048200952234      42 Mo molybdenum
.00000004192663235158341629      44 Ru ruthenium
.00000003629133230432758077      48 Cd cadmium
.00000003133226826274244551      46 Pd palladium
.00000003020520825329127841      78 Pt platinum
.00000002560680341473051662      58 Ce cerium
.00000002028708017012100788      53 I iodine
.00000001866185963649242492      60 Nd neodymium
.00000001645507613798703973      4 Be beryllium
.00000001573375773193829278      41 Nb niobium
.00000001521531012759075591      76 Os osmium
.00000001489973332494442912      77 Ir iridium
.00000001095502329186534426      47 Ag silver
.00000001005337528430441057      57 La lanthanum
.000000008885741114513001453     66 Dy dysprosium
.000000008385326470316683259     55 Cs caesium
.00000000775417286502402968      45 Rh rhodium
.000000007664008064267936312     80 Hg mercury
.000000007438596062377702891     64 Gd gadolinium
.000000006965230858408212707     51 Sb antimony
.000000005820137888805826929     62 Sm samarium
.000000005653333007407054197     68 Er erbium
.000000005587963526858886505     70 Yb ytterbium
.000000004215204435347364971     79 Au gold
.000000004147580834780294945     81 Tl thallium
.000000004147580834780294945     49 In indium
.000000003762126311547995795     59 Pr praseodymium
.000000003471344829109594682     72 Hf hafnium
.000000003245932827219361261     83 Bi bismuth
.000000002997979625140104498     74 W tungsten
.000000002193258778391971186     63 Eu europium
.000000002003912696804175112     67 Ho holmium
.000000001359234371398107528     65 Tb terbium
.000000001165380049772506786     75 Re rhenium
.0000000008520573671450823311    69 Tm thulium
.0000000008272620469371566548    71 Lu lutetium
.0000000007551302063322819601    90 Th thorium
.0000000004666028439127831813    73 Ta tantalum
.0000000002028708017012100788    92 U uranium

And here, H, He, N, O, F, and Ne are excluded

.7218221137533801449              6 C carbon
.07675613368030992828             12 Mg magnesium
.07146753601518615297             14 Si silicon
.06432078241366753767             26 Fe iron
.03680578104782086878             16 S sulfur
.007218221137533801449            18 Ar argon
.006067593807689304387            13 Al aluminium
.004366666450527873946            20 Ca calcium
.00410223656727168518             11 Na sodium
.003523349525548677341            28 Ni nickel
.000964811736205013065            24 Cr chromium
.0007432623745579359908           15 P phosphorus
.0006825149689450277608           25 Mn manganese
.0003744898887195754415           17 Cl chlorine
.0002694326107772517967           19 K potassium
.0001715220864364467671           22 Ti titanium
.0001608019560341688442           27 Co cobalt
.00009004909537913455274          30 Zn zinc
.00003730605379992717185          29 Cu copper
.00002093998805244954282          23 V vanadium
.000008504636785807152203         32 Ge germanium
.000004438133986543060099         34 Se selenium
.000004080796306467129334         3 Li lithium
.000003216039120683376883         36 Kr krypton
.000002701472861374036582         31 Ga gallium
.000002444189731719366431         21 Sc scandium
.000001679487096356874595         38 Sr strontium
.000001515111763521946443         5 B boron
.000000843316924979196605         35 Br bromine
.0000008147299105731221438        40 Zr zirconium
.0000005067048303476698245        37 Rb rubidium
.0000004688270362596211635        33 As arsenic
.0000003437588482330453958        52 Te tellurium
.0000003358974192713749189        54 Xe xenon
.0000003316093671104637498        39 Y yttrium
.0000003208892367081858268        56 Ba barium
.0000002730059875780111043        50 Sn tin
.0000002251227384478363818        82 Pb lead
.0000001822422168387246901        42 Mo molybdenum
.0000001329296169882462445        44 Ru ruthenium
.0000001150627329844497063        48 Cd cadmium
.0000000993398750611087526        46 Pd palladium
.000000095766498260349445         78 Pt platinum
.00000008118712091325146977       58 Ce cerium
.00000006432078241366753767       53 I iodine
.00000005916797306697261604       60 Nd neodymium
.00000005217130129108589166       4 Be beryllium
.00000004988434013859993477       41 Nb niobium
.00000004824058681025065325       76 Os osmium
.00000004724004130603804711       77 Ir iridium
.00000003473322250338047034       47 Ag silver
.00000003187452106277302422       57 La lanthanum
.0000000281725026971863815        66 Dy dysprosium
.0000000265859233976492489        55 Cs caesium
.00000002458483238922403662       45 Rh rhodium
.00000002429896224516329201       80 Hg mercury
.00000002358428688501143048       64 Gd gadolinium
.00000002208346862869252127       51 Sb antimony
.0000000184529177991210647        62 Sm samarium
.00000001792405803260868716       68 Er erbium
.00000001771680217816464732       70 Yb ytterbium
.0000000133644292348398106        79 Au gold
.00000001315002662679425215       81 Tl thallium
.00000001315002662679425215       49 In indium
.00000001192793176093456893       59 Pr praseodymium
.00000001100600054633866756       72 Hf hafnium
.00000001029132518618680603       83 Bi bismuth
.00000000950518229001975834       74 W tungsten
.000000006953791254277612684      63 Eu europium
.000000006353463951750048999      67 Ho holmium
.000000004309492421715725024      65 Tb terbium
.000000003694871611985124108      75 Re rhenium
.000000002701472861374036582      69 Tm thulium
.000000002622858571757331814      71 Lu lutetium
.000000002394162456508736124      90 Th thorium
.000000001479377995514353366      73 Ta tantalum
.0000000006432078241366753767     92 U uranium

 

Au (abundance 6.090e-12), Cu (1.702e-8), Pb (1.027e-10), Zn (4.109e-8), and nearly any element with atomic number greater than 26 Fe (2.935e-5) are simply rare elements. Considering the mainstream view of the universe as a “big iron factory”, in which the creation of heavier elements occurs briefly at the end of the life of a minority of stars, this is to be expected.

 

That we find large, rich, often nearly pure deposits of them in Earth’s crust is evidence that various “sorting” processes, pre-geological, geological and biological, have occurred over the last roughly 4.6 billion years since our pre-solar nebula formed a disk and started forming the Sun, the planets, and the rest.

[Moontanman]

yet another link to bacteria concentrating metal

 

The Midas Bug -- Bacterial Alchemy Of Gold