World population

[C1ay]

Sometime today the world population should pass the 6,666,666,666 mark. It's only been about 14 years since it passed the 5,555,555,555 mark and less than 80 years since passing 2 billion. This is ignoring the planet's animal populations and their growth.

 

How many is too many and what could be done about it?

[UncleAl]

One need do literally nothing about population in excess of resources. Absolutely stop confiscating earned wealth at gunpoint and then dumping it into Official charity. Sub-Saharan Africa historically sustained 80-100 million humans. It is currently stuffed with 850+ million, soon to roll over the billion mark and take off from there. Starvation, war, disease... make no difference at all because there is always a soft landing. The United Nations is the sole meal ticket for 100 million by its own admission. STOP IT!

 

New Orleans plus Hurricane Katrina is illustrative. Much of the population fled. The rest of the population sat on its damp butt, looted, then waited for free eats from the government - and so did free eats arrive! Do you want to fix New Orleans? Do nothing. If the residents aren't worth anything to themseves - to demand Welfare while a whole city needs labor for rebuilding - then they are certainly worth no more than that to me. Think of it as evolution in action.

 

India and China are utterly unsustaineable, with some 1.2 billion and 1.5 billion people each. Snugged cheak and jowl, too, and both have nukes. It could work out without external expenditures.

[Freddy]

Looking at the US birth rates it is the Hispanic population that is leading the other groups in the US. The group that can least afford to have children.

 

"Some of the increase is explained by immigration. Hispanics have the highest fertility rate -- about 2.9 -- followed by blacks (2.1), Asians (1.9) and whites (1.86). But Hispanics do not represent enough of the population to fully explain the trend, and the fertility rate of U.S. whites is still higher than that of other developed countries."

U.S. Fertility Rate Hits 35-Year High, Stabilizing Population

[InfiniteNow]

I think that is more of a "Catholic" issue than a "Hispanic" one.

[freeztar]

Is it a problem?

Yes, imo.

 

I'm not sure where our carrying capacity lies. Some say we are reaching it right now. Others say that we could go up to 12 billion. I'll side by Euclidian-P and not make a Malthusian error myself.

 

One thing that really irks me, as an American, is the tax breaks given to families for children. I don't think it should be removed, but significantly reduced. I've personally known and witnessed poor families having children in order to reap financial (tax) benefits. That should not be a reason to have a child. It's exploitation of the next generation and I find it appalling. :rolleyes:

 

Anyhow, I found this link that some may find interesting. There's *a lot* of info here:

DIE OFF - a population crash resource page

[C1ay]

Some say we are reaching it right now.

 

IMO we're already past it and the people that can least afford it are growing their populations exponentially. It seems obvious that there is a point in the future where the world population will outrun the planet's resources. How much time is needed to hit the brakes before this happens?

[freeztar]

How much time is needed to hit the brakes before this happens?

 

YouTube - The Guess Who - No Time http://youtube.com/watch?v=oqeSUAlI5uI

[Freddy]

Not to sure that Randy and Burton wrote the tune with this problem in mind in 1969?

[Boerseun]

It's a popular proposed solution to the world population crisis (yes, crisis) to up the living conditions of the poor.

 

This includes increasing levels of education, wich will result in the uplifted classes earning more and better wages, wich will result in them consuming ever more resources. Forget about paying the poor more leading to spiralling inflation world-wide, which will leave them with more money worth less.

 

The problem with this is resource consumption. We believe that we're currently supporting 6+ billion people. This is, in actual fact, not true. On DIE OFF - a population crash resource page is a page on the "hidden slaves". If you take an average Westerner, through his daily routine, he's got something like 20 to 40 "invisible slaves" working for him. That's the resource consumption of, for instance, his car, his heating, etc. If you didn't have a fuelled auto, you'd need a wagon with the energy of 40 people pushing you around town. So, if all 6 billion inhabitants of this rock were to be elevated to Western standards, the planet would actually be supporting 6 billion people, plus the resources 240 billion slaves would normally consume.

 

Would it be possible to feed, clothe and house 240 billion slaves? I think not.

 

Also, the unfortunate truth is that capitalism is based on poverty. If everybody is equally rich, money would have no value. If we were to elevate the Third World, inflation in the West would make any advances in the Third World magically disappear through price and value adjustments. If we want to achieve that, we'd have to severly adjust Capitalism as we know it today.

 

The key is to fully support and endorse schemes like the Chinese "1-child" policy, without bothering about their advancement, or the ethical aspects thereof. If advancement comes from their own ranks, and through their own efforts, good for them. Don't force it upon them, but make sure the breeding stops. That should be priority #1.

 

With the road to hell being paved with good intentions, Sub-Saharan poverty, overpopulation, and most importantly, famine, is a direct result of Western bleeding-heart intervention over the last 100-odd years. Because of Western medicine and basic healthcare, and the pressing Western/Christian need to "save lives at all costs", Sub-Saharan Africa's population have boomed from 100 million to just shy of a billion over the last 100 years. Nothing's been done about the natural carrying capacity of the soil, however, so famine ensues. Like, duh.

 

In my own personal view, China's on the right track. Where the wheels will come off, however, is an unstoppable rise in living conditions and a never-ending rise in expectations for the average Chinese individual over the next century. Every first car bought by a Chinese family, adds another 40 slaves to the slave pool.

 

So, 6 billion souls might live in an ever-warming atmosphere, but lurking down below the hatches are the 200+ billion slaves having to do all the work.

[Essay]

...and less than 80 years since passing 2 billion. This is ignoring the planet's animal populations and their growth.

How many is too many and what could be done about it?

 

I thought I'd heard recently that humans were the most populace mammal on Earth now (even outnumbering rats!).

But even if not, I don't think we need to worry about other animal populations. We seem to be able to reduce them by over 90% quite easily. ;)

 

UncleAl: "Social Darwinism" and survival of the fittest is maybe not the best social policy.

 

Using our planet's resources, in our current "Business As Usual" manner, limits world population to about 1 Billion, in the long run. Aren't we currently using 4-5 planet's worth of resources (for high standard of living folks) when extended to the whole population?

 

If we managed our resources better, the planet could support something like 8-12 Billion, I think I've heard.

We need to focus on becomming a Type I civilization, or choose the Malthusian catastrophe route. :rolleyes:

[Jet2]

The Earth system is very interesting. It can adapt any changes and get to a kind of balance stage automatically.

 

I think this 'automatic balance' is also applicable to the World population crisis (crisis?) we were, are and shall be facing. Whether it is managed by us human being or not...

[Cedars]

Excellent post Boerseun. And one cannot ignore the increased life expectancy and its drain on the natural resources.

 

I think the maximum population is around 4 billion (but this might be a bit high). I base this on quality of life and the amount of resources needed to support this.

 

We may be reaching critical mass in food production capacity.

 

I agree with getting rid of tax exemptions for more than 2 children (USA policy).

 

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/countrylisting.html

[InfiniteNow]

China seems to be on to something with the one child policy. Although it applies mainly to the Han population, they do comprise roughly 90% of the mainland populace. Clearly, attempts to implement similar policy here in the states would be met with riotous outrage, especially considering the bible thumpers tend to have litters of children, 8 being on the low end. So, what do we do, indeed...

[Moontanman]

Does anybody really know what time it is?

Does anybody really care?

 

"Chicago"

[C1ay]

This video highlights both the immigration problem and the growth of the world's population.

 

Immigration By The Numbers http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-748582800743703111

[InfiniteNow]

This video highlights both the immigration problem and the growth of the world's population.

 

Immigration By The Numbers

 

While there is tremendous merit in the link you shared, C1ay, it misframes the issue into a national one. This problem being discussed (if I may offer my perspective, despite knowing that this is your thread) is not a "this country" or "that country" issue. It is global, hence the idea of immigration somehow being a forcing factor is short-sighted and, frankly, ignorant.

 

It's the planet which cannot support us at this rate, not the piece of land around which we've had our cartographers draw lines.

[C1ay]

While there is tremendous merit in the link you shared, C1ay, it misframes the issue into a national one. This problem being discussed (if I may offer my perspective, despite knowing that this is your thread) is not a "this country" or "that country" issue. It is global, hence the idea of immigration somehow being a forcing factor is short-sighted and, frankly, ignorant.

 

I shared it particularly for the gumball demonstration near the end since it illustrates the billions of people in the world that are more impoverished than the poor of Mexico, which are very impoverished themselves. IMO it shows the problem with the world's resources in supporting the world's population.