Pondering the dinosaurs

[Queso]

i'm sitting here in class, just skimming the forums, learning and reassuring.

i leaned back, and sighed in boredom, and i looked off to my left. a childrens book titled "Nothosaurus" sits on a shelf, along with 101 dalmations and alice in wonderland.

this got me thinking...

it was amazing that creatures like the dinosaurs lived so long ago, and they lived for such a long time.

evolving and adapting with the earth.

looking at what we believed the species back then looked like, and looking at the species around me today, i am dying to know what other forms of life may look like.

the movies portray aliens as creatures with 4 limbs and a head on a shoulder, almost the same size of us.

that is extremely unrealistic. i mean, even though we have no idea what they look like, what are the chances that they look almost like us? i still love those cheezy movies though. :D

 

the fact that most of the dinosaurs were such big creatures is amazing too.

why do you think that the species today are much smaller? :)

well not all of course, elephants are big for example, and whales as well.

 

if we develop the technology to spread our civilizations throughout space, we could live until the end of time. or at least until the universe isn't so close together when it nears the end of it's contraction, if it does that at all.

we would evolve.

every colony we set up, on a different planet or moon, would evolve over time.

we would slowly see ourselves change.

 

i find intelligence so weird.

as you can tell, i am not well rounded on my scientifical facts. i am just extremely curious, and i don't know how else to put my curiosity into words.

back on track.

solve et coagula. destroy to recreate. a process played out over and over and over again.

worlds will die out, and we will move.

we will see astronomical collisions in our path, and we will move.

some wont be so lucky, and some will die out.

just like countries, there might be worlds. earthicans.

and of course, there might be catastrophic wars. star wars, for example.

i'm sure you all have heard and thought about this many times, i'm just in class and i'm bored and one thought leads to the next.

but i leave you, pondering the dinosaurs.

[Fishteacher73]

Most terrestrial animals follow only a basic few body types. (There are myiads of variations, but they usually stick to only a few central themes). This again is yet another support for evolution. All vertebrates are quadrapeds and have bilateral symetry. Arthropods (the most abundant life forms) all fall into only about 4 variations (Insects, arachnids, Diplipoda (Milepdes and centepedes), and crustacians) that all have very strikingly familiar features.

 

The wierd stuff is mainly invertebrate. There are some freaky critters out there and even odder ones in the fossil record. (My personal favorite is Hallucigenia sparsa, so named because of the idea that is was something from a hallucination, with a spikey back and tentecle like feet. See the link: http://park.org/Canada/Museum/burgessshale/misc1-3.html

 

As for gigantism, yes there are a few still extant big boys (blue whate. the largest animal ever). Most of the forays into this evolutionary line tend to fade out. The large size has advantages against predation, but it requires a large food source. When ecological shifts occur, the big guys have a harder time surviving because of the deminished food supply (and therfore less likely to adapt into a new niche). Evolution has balanced out to find the moderate sized organisms have the best sustainablity.

 

In terms of isolation and independent evolution; African cichlids from the rift vally lakes are a perfect example. The rift lakes are a reasonably new (geologically). They have a unique chemistry apart from most freshwater systems (Very hard water and very alkaline). The species that have moved into these lakes have suddenly started a massive diversification (Still a nightmare to taxonomist today, and even more a pain for the hobiest. Species that have two or three "scientific names" depending on the publication date of the materials and are still in flux today).

[Queso]

amazing.

[lindagarrette]

Some of the most unusual creatures are swimming around 5000 feet below sea level. Only about 10 percent of the ocean bottom has been explored as yet. The Blue Planet DVD series episode "the Deep" is awesome. Life is amazing.:)

[Queso]

ah, yes.

i have been to the monterey bay aquarium many times, and every time i find myself stuck, starring at the jelly fish with synchronized lights. they are so beautiful.

it's as simple as that, life is amazing.

and i love people who realize it...it seems to be a rarity though.

[Fishteacher73]

Reef tanks and LSD are a dangerous combination...... :)

[alxian]

the fact that most of the dinosaurs were such big creatures is amazing too.

 

sorry if somone has already addressed this (limited time to post)

 

but this is because with a less diverse food chain and with higher prey:predator (immense:tiny) ratios and huge habitats (open plains on a supercontinent) this isn't surprising. animals (especially successful predators (where this applies to certain herbivores and whales only because there food supplies don't often have such high success rates and often don't grow well all year round, meaning those animals would need to evolve hiberntion techniques during the off season (other food sources or developing fatoil storage techniques) will keep growing when food is plentiful, and having a large habitat leads to gigantic animals. somehow an animals size is proportional to its available habitat.

 

would that mean humans on a space colony over generations to alpha centauri (proxima) would shrink? lol

 

this is contrary when the habitat is small like an island (google pygmies or tiny elephants (trust me, the first word you see is island), you'll get generally the same number of animals in similar proportions but they will be dwarfs of their analogous mainland (continental) cousins.

 

there is hard science behind this effect....

 

but besides that and since you mentioned dinosaurs in particular i'll point out that some lore points to dinosaurs comming from the moon of sols (the sun) lost companion nibiru.

 

http://paranormal.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://xfacts.com/x2.htm

 

if its a planet it the largest rock in sols domain larger than the outer twins (neptune uranus, the inner ones are earth and venus). but as i said it may be a star according to some sources, and a global takeover plot to some other circles.

 

http://www.slowmotiondoomsday.com/Images/giant.jpg

http://www.slowmotiondoomsday.com/physiology.html

 

wow thanks for bringing up this topic it seems they are making a game out of the subject

 

http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,428

 

(seems like the nibiru cult is trully going nutters lately.. re: google results for nibiru 2005...)

 

google dark star theory and or nibiru, and read up (for entertainment only)..

 

i love the idea of the unknown kuiper belt object being sols missing planet x (which may also be a star (brown dwarf)(binary systems aren't uncommon)(notice also jupiter is almost big enough to be classified as a failed star meaning our system could be a trinary system, had circumstances and our stellar nebula having been slightly denser in composition before it began imploding into its current configuration).

[Turtle]

A bunch of years ago I went with a class to study algae at the Hatfield Scie :) nce Aquarium at Newport Or. They put us up in barracks there & gave us full access to the labs. Fresh seawater is pumped into tanks righ tin the lab. Anyway, you can't walk the beaches there without running across giant sea kelp & of course everyone tries to use them like a whip.

Ok, they're plants; but I guess I mean to say that giant plants have faired better than dinosaurs & most other giant animals.

[TeleMad]

... but I guess I mean to say that giant plants have faired better than dinosaurs & most other giant animals.

 

Actually, bacteria have faired better than all other life. They've existed longer than plants and animals and they also far outnumber both plants and animals.

[Turtle]

Indeed. i hear they now believe bacteria have more to do with cave formation than does acid rainwater percolation. I may have prefaced the statement differently as, "In the arena of giant lifeforms...". Of course don't they say know fungi are the largest living things? Bigger than Blue Whale even? :)

[alxian]

where living and intelligent make the difference.

 

while lichens insect colonies algae and fungi represent huge ecosystems giant is characterized mainly as one animal with one brain with one mouth and stomach.

 

i'm wondering what the first crop of bioengineered life (bred for life in space or specific waste management tasks (from scratch)) will look like. with adequate safeguards against them taking over ecosystems should they get out of control (sterility) i think those animals would be pretty cool. each dna bit coded and perfected.. perfect engineered organisms.

[Fishteacher73]

Actually, bacteria have faired better than all other life. They've existed longer than plants and animals and they also far outnumber both plants and animals.

 

By sheer individual numbers of organisms, bacteria may edge out the competition, but there's no denying the diversity and biomass of arthropods. The diversity out numbers all other organisms combined.

[alxian]

then viruses and their impact on the DNA of other organisms has to be taken into account.

 

they have influenced our evolution and some say may be connected to the development of our ability to speak. (one of our greatest advantages over most other animals)

[Fishteacher73]

I have not heard of viruses influencing communication (Not that it is untrue). There are many animals that communicate w/ each other. From bees to elephants there is communication. How would a virus affect this progression?

[alxian]

virus have impacted more of our biological functions that was just an example.

 

since the source for me was a snippet out of a newspaper i'm not able to link to that

 

but i did find this

 

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:NVlRcZ92CLAJ:www.msu.edu/course/anp/420/dwyer/LC-04%2520Biological%2520Basis-02.doc.doc+chromosome+evolution+%22human+voice+%22&hl=en&start=1&lr=lang_en

 

essentially what should be implied is that many animals have the brain power to speak but lack the ability to articulate speach as we do with modulated sounds from specialized vocal structures in the throat.. (maybe some animals could develop wifi? or dolphin ultrasound communication could eventually evolve into a inaudible form of telepathy.....

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=2&q=http://www.scarysquirrel.org/science/silence/&e=7249

 

but and as much fun and reading through that html link on my very short lunch break to try to find the specific chromosome or compound divergance from man and his predecessors sounds, please forgive me if i don't and instead poke around further for more topics to reply to.

[Fishteacher73]

I definatly agree that viruses could have a huge impact on evolution. I just seems a bit streached to call a single mutation responsible for coherent thought and speach. Interesting point though, I'll have to do some poking about myself.

[alxian]

i'll remind you i said that animals are capable of everything but speach (they can commmunicate with other)

 

parrots can speak and there is scientific evidence that despite the small cranial capacity they are highly intelligent (simply put they evolved over time to their environment).

 

that is to say many animals do communicate as humans do without the eloquence, which is our arrogance because dispite its simplicity we have yet to crack *ANY* animal communication method.

they seem to be more instint based than based on specific sounds as words. like one screach meand ":sh!t man a fkn eagle is comming", while another is like ":sh!t man this tree's got food guys", this we can easily understand but animal communication can't be this simple given its over all complexity and variety of sounds most animals are able to produce. (besides if the french can use such fruity sounds to communicate any animal species with equivelant brain power should have as complex a language structure.. :) )