Quickest way to get to The Super Earth, will this work?

[JoeRoccoCassara]

:naughty: See the rules. As long as you can follow them you'll have no problems.

 

I believe you didn't ask me to support my case, you rubbed it in that I couldn't with a rhetorical question.

 

You knew I couldn't support it, and I knew I was wrong.

[C1ay]

I believe you didn't ask me to support my case, you rubbed it in that I couldn't with a rhetorical question.

 

You knew I couldn't support it, and I knew I was wrong.

 

I don't need to ask, it's stated in the rules.

[JoeRoccoCassara]

I don't need to ask, it's stated in the rules.

 

When I proposed the idea I didn't know it needed supporting, and when I did, I dropped it.

[Jon13]

****, when was this discovered? i've been out of the loop longer than i thought.

[JoeRoccoCassara]

Alright I'm working on something much more sufficent.

 

But it will have a throw back for you guys, and this throw back will be perfect set up for you to bully me again, I will say that the solar sail is going to, EVETUALLY be moving at C.

 

Now it has a completely deferent set up than the one now, the only similarity is how the Craft launches, and that similarity is weak at best.

 

Now when I say it will be moving at C, keep this in mind,

 

Other presentations at the conference focused on using lasers or microwave transmitters that would power the solar sails along at a faster rate than sunlight alone. The sails would be powered like those designed to use solar photons, with the lasers or microwave transmitters beaming at the sail for a few days or weeks, providing the sail with the light needed to create thrust.

 

 

"Lasers can keep focused on the sail for a longer time," said Frisbee. "Microwave transmitters can be used to blast the sail until it heats to 2000 Kelvin, which would accelerate the sail at 100's of G's to get the sail up to 1/10th the speed of light. Scientists are debating which system -- high-powered lasers or microwave transmitters -- might be the best way to go. Each has its advantages and disadvantages."

 

 

Now I haven't completed this craft yet, but I came up with a way to make the Solar Sail move at C, and I won't share the idea until the have completed the craft.

 

BTW, it's two Crafts.

[C1ay]

I will say that the solar sail....

 

Again, how much damage can your solar sail endure? This craft will be pummeled by interstellar dust, small meteorites, etc.. Do you really think this design could survive such a journey?

 

BTW, I'm not trying to bully you, just debating the validity of the idea as a realistic endeavor.

[JoeRoccoCassara]

Again, how much damage can your solar sail endure? This craft will be pummeled by interstellar dust, small meteorites, etc.. Do you really think this design could survive such a journey?

 

BTW, I'm not trying to bully you, just debating the validity of the idea as a realistic endeavor.

 

Now the sail would have to be thousands of miles tall/long.

 

I'm not focusing on the cosmic bombardment yet.

 

One possibility would be a pyrmid shape sail, with mirrors inside the pyrmid dome, reflecting and heating the sail on it's inside even more than ever since the mirrors would be diaganolly facing each other (Pyrmid Shape), while we have a thick and durable outside, with frozen ice making it's surface slick.

 

Tiny and fair sized metoers could slide right off.

[freeztar]

Tiny and fair sized metoers could slide right off.

 

I don't think that when traveling at 1/10 c that anything will "slide right off".

A bullet fired from a gun at 1,000 m/s is traveling at 1/300,000 c. :naughty:

 

In contrast, Vyager 1 is traveling at 17,100 m/s. It's apparently held up pretty well, but it has not reached the heliopause yet.

[JoeRoccoCassara]

I don't think that when traveling at 1/10 c that anything will "slide right off".

A bullet fired from a gun at 1,000 m/s is traveling at 1/300,000 c. :naughty:

 

In contrast, Vyager 1 is traveling at 17,100 m/s. It's apparently held up pretty well, but it has not reached the heliopause yet.

 

 

 

We could suround the sail by intertwining strands of spider silk, man made spider webs.

 

And what makes you think this sail is propelled by the sun, that would be hardly feasible, it's propelled by focused high powered laser beams, which helps even more heat the inside of the pyrmid sail, thanks to the mirrors facing diaganlly to each other.

 

I don't want to give away any more about my design, so please stop arguing until I post it.

[Moontanman]

For a very good description of a light sail and how it would work read Robert L. Forward's book Rocheworld. Not only is it a great but R. Forward is a scientist and insists his books follow the science as closely as possible. I think you'll find that a light sail and what it takes to make it work and how well it works is a little different than what you have in mind.

 

Rocheworld - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[CraigD]

… I will say that the solar sail is going to, EVETUALLY be moving at C. …

I recommend you review special relativity before proposing that anything with nonzero rest mass will eventually be moving at c relative to anything else.

 

The problem you’ll find is that accelerating a mass to c requires an infinite amount of energy. As there’s only a finite amount of anything available to anything, the best any thrust-based propulsion system can do is accelerate a mass to near c.

 

From the perspective of the crew of a spaceship desiring only to get from one place to another within some amount of time (eg: here to the Andromeda galaxy in a day), this “cosmic speed limit” isn’t a significant restriction at all – special relativity also predicts a time dilation factor that makes it possible to travel any distance in as little time as desire (as measured by the traveler) given enough energy.

 

Getting enough energy, and avoiding engineering catastrophes along the way, is, or course, a major challenge.

[JoeRoccoCassara]

I recommend you review special relativity before proposing that anything with nonzero rest mass will eventually be moving at c relative to anything else.

 

The problem you’ll find is that accelerating a mass to c requires an infinite amount of energy. As there’s only a finite amount of anything available to anything, the best any thrust-based propulsion system can do is accelerate a mass to near c.

 

From the perspective of the crew of a spaceship desiring only to get from one place to another within some amount of time (eg: here to the Andromeda galaxy in a day), this “cosmic speed limit” isn’t a significant restriction at all – special relativity also predicts a time dilation factor that makes it possible to travel any distance in as little time as desire (as measured by the traveler) given enough energy.

 

Getting enough energy, and avoiding engineering catastrophes along the way, is, or course, a major challenge.

 

 

 

The mirrors reaching 20000 Kelvin will provide THOUSANDS of G's of thrust.

 

Is that not enough to move at C?

 

But thanks for the links and advice, I'm going to take advantage of them.

[freeztar]

The mirrors reaching 20000 Kelvin will provide THOUSANDS of G's of thrust.

 

Is that not enough to move at C?

 

No. To 'move at c', you would have to utilize all the mass in the universe. This simply isn't possible, and if it were, it would make the trip kinda pointless. ;)

 

I *love* your creativity, Gardamorg! Do not get discouraged by refutations people make here. It's good to have a balance between that which is science and that which is sci-fi. :)

[JoeRoccoCassara]

No. To 'move at c', you would have to utilize all the mass in the universe. This simply isn't possible, and if it were, it would make the trip kinda pointless. ;)

 

I *love* your creativity, Gardamorg! Do not get discouraged by refutations people make here. It's good to have a balance between that which is science and that which is sci-fi. :)

 

Forgive me, but, what do you mean by "Utilize all of the mass in the universe?" Can you explain that thoroughly, I think that would do me more good than Wikipedia's definitions.

 

For a very good description of a light sail and how it would work read Robert L. Forward's book Rocheworld. Not only is it a great but R. Forward is a scientist and insists his books follow the science as closely as possible. I think you'll find that a light sail and what it takes to make it work and how well it works is a little different than what you have in mind.

 

Rocheworld - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

My Sail is set up completely deferently, it uses less powerful lasers, but thanks to the way they work, they are much more sufficent.

[Moontanman]

Forgive me, but, what do you mean by "Utilize all of the mass in the universe?" Can you explain that thoroughly, I think that would do me more good than Wikipedia's definitions.

 

 

 

My Sail is set up completely deferently, it uses less powerful lasers, but thanks to the way they work, they are much more sufficent.

 

It doesn't really matter, you could accelerate at millions of billions of gees and still not reach "C" Not going to happen my friend, not going to happen in this universe anyway.....

[JoeRoccoCassara]

It doesn't really matter, you could accelerate at millions of billions of gees and still not reach "C" Not going to happen my friend, not going to happen in this universe anyway.....

 

Why not, if ten times less thrust can propel the craft at 1/10 the speed of light, why can't ten times more propel it AT the speed of light??

 

It doesn't make sense.:)

[InfiniteNow]

As you approach the speed of light, the amount of energy it takes to accelerate further increases.

The closer you get, the more energy it takes, and the more massive you become.

At some point, the amount of energy required to accelerate further exceeds all of the energy in the universe.

This is true for any object with nonzero mass.

 

This is explained by relativity, which is why it was suggested that you study it. :)