Still no sunspots...

[HydrogenBond]

If you look at a sun spot, these are cooler surface areas and reflect areas where less energy is coming from the core of the sun to the surface. The lack of sunspots means the sun is running hotter in a net way. The question becomes why is more net energy coming from the core and being released at the surface?

[TheBigDog]

Uncle Al explained once how while a sunspot is a cool point, the net heat released is higher during sunspot activity because (as I recall) of the magnetic properties that cause a sunspot, and the elevated temperatures at the edge of the spot. If that is the case then the lack of spots equates to a lower energy output, and a lower temperature. It is entirely possible that the sun goes through long periods of dormancy in terms of sunspot activity. After all it is billions of years old, and we have been measuring for just the past couple of hundred.

 

How would a dormant sun affect the temperature of the earth?

 

Bill

[REASON]

If you look at a sun spot, these are cooler surface areas and reflect areas where less energy is coming from the core of the sun to the surface. The lack of sunspots means the sun is running hotter in a net way. The question becomes why is more net energy coming from the core and being released at the surface?

 

Sunspots are not caused by a reduction in the net energy coming from the core. They are caused by intense magnetic activity at the surface that inhibits convection resulting in cool spots. These cooler spots are surrounded by hotter areas that are actually brighter and give off slightly more radiation than normal. The sun is not considered to be "running hotter" when there is a reduced amount, or no sunspots. Sunspots are indicative of an increase in solar activity that includes prominences, flares, and coronal mass ejections.

 

The lack of sunspots at the surface indicates a significant reduction in magnetic field line activity that typically occurs every 11 years after the magnetic poles flip. This is called the Solar Minimum, which is what we are currently experiencing.

 

Core energy does not have a bearing the number of visible sunspots.

[Turtle]

... Sunspots are indicative of an increase in solar activity that includes prominences, flares, and coronal mass ejections.

...

 

Mmmmm....I think these three Sun phenomena are not dependent on sunspots, i.e. they can & do occur in the absence of sunspots. I'll look for a link.

 

Meantime, a new little spot has emerged today; looks like an old Cycle 23 though to me as it is nearly on the equator. ;)

 

SpaceWeather.com -- News and information about meteor showers, solar flares, auroras, and near-Earth asteroids

Daily Sun: 06 Mar 09

 

A new sunspot is emerging in the circled location. Credit: SOHO/MDI

 

[REASON]

Mmmmm....I think these three Sun phenomena are not dependent on sunspots, i.e. they can & do occur in the absence of sunspots. I'll look for a link.

 

I didn't say that those phenomena are "dependent" on sunspots, and I didn't mean to imply that either. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

 

Sunspots, flares, prominences, and coronal mass ejections are all associated with the magnetic activity of the Sun. As the Sun moves toward Solar Maximum during the Solar Cycle, the magnetic field lines become twisted and entangled as a result of the fact that the Sun's equator rotates faster than it's poles and these phenomena become more frequent.

 

Here are some quotes from the Wiki articles on the subject:

 

Sunspots, being the manifestation of intense magnetic activity, host secondary phenomena such as coronal loops and reconnection events. Most solar flares and coronal mass ejections originate in magnetically active regions around visible sunspot groupings. Similar phenomena indirectly observed on stars are commonly called starspots and both light and dark spots have been measured.

 

Most flares occur in active regions around sunspots, where intense magnetic fields penetrate the photosphere to link the corona to the solar interior. Flares are powered by the sudden (timescales of minutes to tens of minutes) release of magnetic energy stored in the corona.....

 

Solar flares were first observed on the Sun by Richard Christopher Carrington and independently by Richard Hodgson in 1859 as localized visible brightenings of small areas within a sunspot group. Stellar flares have also been observed on a variety of other stars.

 

The frequency of occurrence of solar flares varies, from several per day when the Sun is particularly "active" to less than one each week when the Sun is "quiet". Large flares are less frequent than smaller ones. Solar activity varies with an 11-year cycle (the solar cycle). At the peak of the cycle there are typically more sunspots on the Sun, and hence more solar flares.

 

Association with other solar phenomena

Coronal Mass Ejections are often associated with other forms of solar activity, most notably:

• solar flares
  
• eruptive prominence and X-ray sigmoids
  
• coronal dimming (long-term brightness decrease on the solar surface)
  
• EIT and Moreton waves
  
• coronal waves (bright fronts propagating from the location of the eruption)
  
• post-eruptive arcades.
  

The association of a CME with some of those phenomena is common but not fully understood. For example, CMEs and flares were at first thought to be directly connected, with the flare driving the CME. However, only 60% of flares (M-class and stronger) are associated with CMEs.[2] Similarly, many CMEs are not associated with flares. It is now thought that CMEs and associated flares are caused by a common event (the CME peak acceleration and the flare peak radiation often coincide). In general, all of these events (including the CME) are thought to be the result of a large-scale restructuring of the magnetic field.

 

Geoeffective eruptive phenomena

The solar magnetic field structures the corona, giving it its characteristic shape visible at times of solar eclipses. Complex coronal magnetic field structures evolve in response to fluid motions at the solar surface, and emergence of magnetic flux produced by dynamo action in the solar interior. For reasons not yet understood in detail, sometimes these structures lose stability, leading to coronal mass ejections into interplanetary space, or flares, caused by sudden localized release of magnetic energy driving copious emission of ultraviolet and X-ray radiation as well as energetic particles. These eruptive phenomena can have a significant impact on Earth's upper atmosphere and space environment, and are the primary drivers of what is now called space weather.

 

The occurrence frequency of coronal mass ejections and flares is strongly modulated by the solar activity cycle. Flares of any given size are some 50 times more frequent at solar maximum than at minimum. Large coronal mass ejections occur on average a few times a day at solar maximum, down to one every few days at solar minimum. The size of these events themselves does not depend sensitively on the phase of the solar cycle. A good recent case in point are the three large X-class flares having occurred in December 2006, very near solar minimum; one of these (an X9.0 flare on Dec 5) stands as one of the brightest on record.

 

My intent was to counter the notion presented by HydrogenBond that the occurance of sunspots indicates a period of decreased solar activity or release of energy, when in fact the opposite is true.

[Turtle]

I didn't say that those phenomena are "dependent" on sunspots, and I didn't mean to imply that either. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

...

My intent was to counter the notion presented by HydrogenBond that the occurance of sunspots indicates a period of decreased solar activity or release of energy, when in fact the opposite is true.

 

Roger. H-Bonds posts make so little sense overall that I have stopped bothering to reply. Pseudo-scientific babble. :shrug: Who ya gonna call?

 

A note on my sources: Virtually daily for the last 4 years I have visited Spaceweather.com, read their Sun articles, followed their links, and looked at their images. While I don't see any blaring errors in the Wiki quotes you give, in the case of Sun science it is not my first resource choice.

 

To find any days entries at Spaceweather.com, go to the archives section (currently upper-right on their Home Page) and put in the date you want to view. Spaceweather.com Time Machine

 

Just a couple days back they featured some prominenet prominences:

SOLAR ACTIVITY: With no sunspots in sight, the face of the sun is blank and dull. The edge of the sun, on the other hand, is pretty lively. Peter Lawrence photographed the action on March 2nd from his backyard observatory in Selsey, UK:

 

"A lovely clear blue sky with the Sun shining brightly convinced me to take out my solar telescope and have a look at the Sun," says Lawrence. "It didn't disappoint. This lovely complex prominence was visible on the north-western limb, a superb sight to warm a chilly spring day."

 

According to SOHO, the prominence is still showing off today. Readers, if you have a solar telescope, take a look.

 

I saw that eyeshadow at Nordstrom yesterday! :cheer:

It's a beautiful shade; isn't it? ;)

 

Uncle Al explained once how while a sunspot is a cool point, the net heat released is higher during sunspot activity because (as I recall) of the magnetic properties that cause a sunspot, and the elevated temperatures at the edge of the spot. If that is the case then the lack of spots equates to a lower energy output, and a lower temperature. It is entirely possible that the sun goes through long periods of dormancy in terms of sunspot activity. After all it is billions of years old, and we have been measuring for just the past couple of hundred.

 

How would a dormant sun affect the temperature of the earth?

 

Bill

 

I'll look for Al's post if you don't beat me to it. ;) I think the term "dormancy" is more colloquial than scientific. What happens during a period of few or no sunspots is exactly what we observe now; it's going on now. That's what this thread is on about and I think we have earlier linked to articles about the Maunder Minimum and other such "relatively" long periods of no or little sunspot activity. ;)

[REASON]

A note on my sources: Virtually daily for the last 4 years I have visited Spaceweather.com, read their Sun articles, followed their links, and looked at their images. While I don't see any blaring errors in the Wiki quotes you give, in the case of Sun science it is not my first resource choice.

 

Yes, I dig that site as well. You were the one who turned me on to it a while back. It's a great site to get tips on all kinds of astro-events like comets, meteor showers, eclipses, etc.

 

Very cool! Thanks. ;)

[Turtle]

Yes, I dig that site as well. You were the one who turned me on to it a while back. It's [spaceweather.com] a great site to get tips on all kinds of astro-events like comets, meteor showers, eclipses, etc.

 

Very cool! Thanks. :)

 

Roger Roger. I neglected to mention the SOHO page, which is where Spaceweather gets their data. Here's real-time Sun data from the horse's mouth so to speak. :smilingsun:

 

Spaceweather: SOHO Space Weather

 

SOHO Home Page: Solar and Heliospheric Observatory Homepage

[modest]

I'll look for Al's post if you don't beat me to it. :)

 

B)

We have just come through some of the most active sunspot years on record. (Tough on ***-tronaughts' eyeballs - causes radiation cataracts) The solar constant is larger given lots of sunspots (surrounding areas called faculae glow brighter). Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn are showing minor temp rises. It looks like years of peak sunspot activity may be followed by years of attenuated activity, like in the 1950s and 60s. Go back and look - an impending ice age was Officially upon us.

 

Re: Global Warming a fake?

And, wikipedia on facula:

Faculae are produced by concentrations of magnetic field lines, and are most commonly found in the vicinity of sunspots; this is how the Sun may be actually brighter when sunspots are more numerous.

I had never heard of a faculae. According to the university of Oregon, sunspots always have an associated faculae, but can exist apart from them as well. Very cool :) or, I guess... hot B)

 

And one more bullet in HB's assertion that "The lack of sunspots means the sun is running hotter in a net way.":

-

source

 

~modest

[Turtle]

And, wikipedia on facula:

I had never heard of a faculae. According to the university of Oregon, sunspots always have an associated faculae, but can exist apart from them as well. Very cool :) or, I guess... hot :shrug:

 

~modest

 

:shrug: Just the faculae Mam; just the faculae. :)

 

Daily Sun: 12 Mar 09

 

The sun is blank--no sunspots. Credit: SOHO/MDI

 

A solar wind stream flowing from the indicated coronal hole should arrive on or about March 13th. Credit: SOHO Extreme UV Telescope

 

[Turtle]

:) :)

 

SpaceWeather.com -- News and information about meteor showers, solar flares, auroras, and near-Earth asteroids

March 17, 2009 A LITTLE SOLAR ACTIVITY: The sun is in the pits of the deepest solar minimum in almost 100 years. At such a calm time, even a little solar activity is remarkable. Here it is. SOHO recorded the movie on March 16th; it shows a minor CME billowing away from the sun's eastern limb. When the sun is active, it produces several such CMEs on a daily basis. Now, the rate is about one per month. That's very little solar activity.

 

Daily Sun: 16 Mar 09

 

The sun is blank--no sunspots. Credit: SOHO/MDI

[Turtle]

March 22, 2009

DEEP SOLAR MINIMUM: Where have all the sunspots gone? As of yesterday, March 21st, the sun has been blank on 85% of the days of 2009. If this rate of spotlessness continues through the end of the year, 2009 will match 1913 as the blankest year of the past century. A flurry of new-cycle sunspots in Oct. 2008 prompted some observers to declare that solar minimum was ending, but since then the calm has returned. We are still in the pits of a deep solar minimum. link

 

Daily Sun: 23 Mar 09

 

The sun is blank--no sunspots. Credit: SOHO/MDI

 

[abx-sun]

Still quiet, no sunspots ...

You can see a graph of the SSN activity over one month at the

- nwra-az.com/spawx/comp.html

 

Now zero during 18 days....

and still how long ? :lol:

 

Felix

[Turtle]

Still quiet, no sunspots ...

You can see a graph of the SSN activity over one month at the

- nwra-az.com/spawx/comp.html

 

Now zero during 18 days....

and still how long ? :)

 

Felix

 

Thanks Felix. Here's that link 'til you get enough posts: Space Weather: Comparison of SSN Indices As luck has it, you came just as a little activity popped up. ;)

 

Daily Sun: 26 Mar 09

A "proto-sunspot" is struggling to emerge at the circled location. If it coelesces, its high latitude would make it a member of new Solar Cycle 24. Credit: SOHO/MDI

 

AROUND THE BEND: The sun has been without spots for nearly a month, but the blank spell could be coming to an end. The Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO) is monitoring intense activity on the sun's northeastern limb:

 

The source could be a sunspot located just over the horizon. We'll know within the next ~24 hours. Solar rotation is turning the active region toward Earth, and by March 27th direct viewing should be possible.

SpaceWeather.com -- News and information about meteor showers, solar flares, auroras, and near-Earth asteroids

[abx-sun]

Thank you "Turtle" for putting the link.

I have to write in order to increase "my numbers" to be able to

put also a link ...

 

Here I have all my observations together:

- home.datacomm.ch/hb9abx/flux.htm

 

and on this one I see all details of the sun:

- gong.nso.edu/Daily_Images/

(click on the right image of each location to get it enlarged)

 

But I still can't detect anything coming ...;)

 

Felix

[Turtle]

Thank you "Turtle" for putting the link.

I have to write in order to increase "my numbers" to be able to

put also a link ...

 

Roger. My pleasure. ;)

 

Here I have all my observations together:

ham radio flux values / a- k- i- -Index

 

and on this one I see all details of the sun:

Latest Images from GONG

(click on the right image of each location to get it enlarged)

 

But I still can't detect anything coming ...:)

 

Felix

 

I put in your other links, danke schöne, and here's the SOHO image they think is signalling a new spot coming round (left side of image):

 

[Turtle]

Daily Sun: 27 Mar 09

 

Yesterday's proto-sunspot failed to materialize. The sun is blank. Credit: SOHO/MDI

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