Madness as a ghost of the mind

[motherengine]

one night, years ago, there was a hostile debate between my parents and my mother's brother concerning the idea that bipolarism is not a physical disease but an abberation of thought. i have debated this on several occations myself with my uncle and have heard this belief expressed in others before. i tried to explane (to my uncle) that as diabeties is a physical problem relating to the pancreas bipolarism is a physical problem relating to the brain. even with a wealth of evidence in support of the theory that mental illness is as physical as say heart disease (of course heart disease is more destructive on a celluar level) i still find that many people look at mental illness as some kind of fantasy problem. its all in the head, i agree, but only in that the brain is a physical organ encased in the head and as such mental disturbances are physical phenomenon and deserve as much respect as diseases in which one can see damage occur in the body. is the division between mental and physical in our language and the lack of knowledge of the chemistry of the brain causing people to believe this way or is there another aspect to the situation that i have ignored?

[pgrmdave]

The hardware and the software are one and the same - I agree that it is a physical problem, but because it deals with the brain, it is also a mental problem. The brain is able to rewire itself, hence how we learn, and think. While there are some problems that are purely physical, and have nothing really to do with the formation of the neurons, others are such a part of the brain and mind, that rewiring the brain via the mind makes more sense than rewiring the mind via the brain.

[Buffy]

is the division between mental and physical in our language and the lack of knowledge of the chemistry of the brain causing people to believe this way or is there another aspect to the situation that i have ignored?

I think it has to do with the fact that mental problems cannot be perceived objectively by the person they are happening to, unlike all other physical maladies. With other physical problems, you feel sick and you know it. People fear loosing control of their mental faculties more than anything else, and if it is possible to violate your own belief system or control your actions, for many its better to go into denial and insist that its not possible. This seems to most strongly affect people who have actually felt out of control.

 

My favorite example of this is homosexuality. Its not a disease in my book, but it seems to me people are scared to death that they could be homosexual and have no ability to control it when they think its wrong. So they prefer to think its a "wrong lifestyle choice." I've often noticed that the most homophobic people I've ever met are clearly closet homosexuals.

 

I have a close friend who's son is bipolar, and she's been on the wrong end of a dangerous wepon with him, in spite of the fact that when he's got the right medicines, he's the most lovable, smart, interesting, and passionate kid you've ever met.

 

Anyone who does not accept the fact that mental diseases are physical are sad, but they are only deep into self-preservation.

 

Another argument here is the "existence of evil" argument that holds that if mental defects are physical, then all aberant behavior is excusable. You can make a slippery slope argument on this point and thus say all aberations that are "mental" are "by choice" and therefore all people who commit violent acts should be thrown in jail rather than wasting time trying to treat or "rehabilitate" them. Another one of those Melvillian gray areas....

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[Fishteacher73]

I think a lot of the problem is that we still do not have a really good understanding of the mind/brain. We have a reasonable understanding of the anatomy, an ok understanding of the chemistry, a decent understanding of psychology. The problem arisies is that we have a bit of insight into the inter-play of all these factors, but not a true "unified theory" of how all of these aspects are related and interact.

 

I have an abnormal psych. book from the 50's and homosexuality is listed as an "abberant" behavior. We have came a good deal forward from that point, but there is still al long way to go.There are anatomical correlations to homosexuality in some but not all cases(usually an enlarged hypothalamus ). There are also psychological correlations in some but not all cases (Usually sexual abuse durring youth).

 

The problem with the brain/mind is that vary different causes (Physical trauma, psychological trauma, chemical imbalance, developmental problems) can produce almost the same affects.

[lindagarrette]

I think a lot of the problem is that we still do not have a really good understanding of the mind/brain. We have a reasonable understanding of the anatomy, an ok understanding of the chemistry, a decent understanding of psychology. The problem arisies is that we have a bit of insight into the inter-play of all these factors, but not a true "unified theory" of how all of these aspects are related and interact.

 

We understand how the brain works. The usual question is how to determine which functions are genetic and which are learned. For example, the sociopathic brain differs physically from the normal brain. This was not knowable until relatively recently. Normally, our responses are conditioned, per B.F. Skinner.

[Crim]

Reminds me of a TV show I watched about Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. One of the several people they were spotlighting would constantly open his freezer to make sure that the neighbour's cat was not accidentally locked in there. Must've done it hundreds of times in a day. There was another man that would have to keep stopping his car, getting out, and checking behind the car to make sure that he hadn't run anyone over. It was clear from watching each of these people that they were slaves to repeating an action over and over, hundereds of times a day. The most memorable quote for me was when one of them that was interviewed was saying that he constantly had to deal with people that would think it was just a mental abberation, and they always suggested/expected that he try stopping. His quote being: "Don't you think that I would stop if I could ?"

 

The problem for those that don't understand, is that they project their own perceptional makeup on the afflicted, or vice versa. I find this to be a typical response when people try to relate to/understand other people. Essentially, they will imagine the afflicted person as having the same abilities as themselves, and when the afflicated persons actions do not match up to what the sane person would do, the only explanation seems to be that afflicted's actions were by choice, or lack of effort. This because they assume that the afflicted are of the same mental ability as themselves. Or in vice versa, the sane person imagines the malady on themselves, and examines how their sane mind reacts and 'defeats' the evil malady... with just a little effort.

 

As an aside, this exemplifies why it is said that thinking is the hardest thing in the world to do. The scenario above is nothing more than a reaction. To the sane person, it may seem like thinking. However, speaking of effort (ironically), there was no effort made to think of other possibilities, only to dwell on the automatic reaction that a large number of people already blindly do. Thinking may play a part ultimately, but only to dream up arguments to support the original reaction, if challenged.