Pedophilia In America

[IDMclean]

I would like to point the Desscusion of this particular matter to what I concider an invaluable resource regarding Children-Adult interaction and Culture.

 

Now please keep in mind that this is a contraversal issue and the individual in question is more or less Rediculed if not straighted out Violently opposite by the so called Experts.

 

His name is Lloyd deMause. I highly recommend all his books.

http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/bio.html

[alxian]

ok, so yes what i meant was to raise those rather colloquial beliefs.

 

of course i'm not saying that boys can't be raped or molested but that that double standard is why soceity hasn't done away with child molestation already. its still a joke and isn't taken seriously by the molesters and their peers.

 

zero tolerance wouldn't do any good either because you'd have to educate the children and potentially expose them even more to adulthood before they are ready. hmmm make the mean age 18? once a person has ripened and had access to a formal education in terms of the world and sexuality too? yes.. if i'm elected president of the world in 2020 i'll be sure to ratify something ridiculous like that.. no sex till marriage no marriage till 18, offenders will be maimed and sterilized.

[IrishEyes]

Thanks, KAC, for that link. Looking into that site further, I did some interesting reading.

 

http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/06a1_incest.html

 

The time when one could deny that sexual seduction is extremely traumatic for children appears to have ended. The more studies that come out on the effects of childhood sexual abuse, the more severe the damage is found to be. The flood of books and articles documenting the emotional problems of victims both in childhood and in later life has to be read in detail to appreciate the profound sense of betrayal and the terrifying fears felt by the child, so that even single incidents have the power to permanently ravage their lives. Severe somatic reactions, depersonalization, self-hatred, hysterical seizures, depression, borderline personality formation, promiscuity, sexual dysfunctions, suicide, self-mutilation, night terrors and flashbacks, multiple personalities, post-traumatic stress disorders, delinquency, bulemia, and the overall stunting of feelings and capacities have all been documented - the earlier and the more often the abuse, the worse the damage.(76)

[beccareb]

It's not so much that boys can't be molested, but that they can only be molested by another male (as in the Catholic priest controversy).

 

A few questions: Have any of you ever been friends or aquaintanses with someone who became or had been a child molestor? Is it best to forgive and forget as you would with normal wrongs committed by a friend, or to regard somethings unforgivable? Or, is it best to forgive but not forget, as in, forgive them but never leave your children alone with the person? Is a child molestor always a child molestor, or is it possible for it to be an isolated event? Should you let the information you know affect your relationship with the person? If it's someone of the opposite sex, should you avoid them as a possible love interest/ signifiicant other?

[IrishEyes]

yes.. if i'm elected president of the world in 2020 i'll be sure to ratify something ridiculous like that.. no sex till marriage no marriage till 18, offenders will be maimed and sterilized.

 

Is that what I said? Funny, I don't remember it being anything like that at all...

[TINNY]

Yesterday I wrote a long response to this topic but it somehow got lost. i wonder what happened. either the connection was lost or deleted.

 

anyway, vijun, you make strange claims where I beg to differ.

 

In my opinion both good things and bad things have come out of this situation. I think that some people in America are too protective of their children. I could write a whole book about the irrational over protective behavior of some Americans.

I would like to read that book when you write it, would you mind. Americans are too protective of their children? I thought americans were the most liberal. THere are a lot more conservative countries in this world.

My response to that is it all depends on the way parents raise their children.

ok. but not ALL. social influences play a bigger role through peers and mass media. the lack of imprinting on children these days have lessened the modelling effect of parents on their child.

A large percentage of Americans parents are over protective and conservative. If a child grows up in a home with parents that are liberal and not over protective the child will have a higher probability of being more mature and being more prepared for the real world at an earlier age. If you want your child to make irresponsible decisions you should keep your child in a bubble and try to control their lived as much as possible. That is something that a lot of American parents are good at.

Please justify your claims. You assume all influences fromt the outside world are good influences? That it will make the kids more mature? And you think that parents cannot teach their children to be more mature? Being over-protective is good. Actually, I prefer 100% protection by parents on their child on any negative influences. The big problem that arises when parents adopt this thinking is that they restrict their child's freedom. But don't get me wrong. I favor absolute freedom on behalf of the child in exploring and learning. BUt that does not mean letting the children out all day and let them mix around with drug addicts and chain smokers and gangsters. The parent should give kind advice and try to reason with their child on not to do anything harmful to themselves. And if properly protected from negative influences plus sufficient imprinting, the child will inevitably abide by his parent's advice. in this way, the parents can allow freedom to their child and the child will most likely choose to do good things.

THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM

 

If you read my first two posts on this site you may have realized that I believe that all of the problems in human society can be blamed on two things. Genetic flaws and primitive behavior.

you can't blame it on genetic flaws. It is the person who chooses to do those bad things. No matter how flawed, behavior is still determined by the person's choices and social conditoining.

If you want to solve a problem as big as pedophilia you have to think big. Putting someone in prison or putting them on a sex offender list is not enough. Simple solution usually can’t solve big problems. I challenge anyone reading this to try and think of a solution to solve of all of our problems, because it is the only way to solve a problem as big as pedophilia.

As I said, parents have to protect their child and give absolute freedom. provided that the child understands how very well how human learning takes place, the child can achieve a good life according to his worldview. If the worldview is accurate, all the better.

 

PROTECTING YOUR CHILDREN

 

If you really want to protect your child the best thing that you can do is prepare your child for the real world as early as possible. That means teaching your child about sex before they reach puberty. I also believe that parents should enroll their children in some kind of martial arts class as early as possible. Most people don’t know just how fragile the human body is. It doesn’t take much strength to subdue or kill someone. You just have to apply the right amount of pressure in the right place. If your child is going to be raped there is no reason why they should go down without a fight.

so now you say the parent has to teach his child. And not to leave his child go out and learn himself. You contradict yourself.

The majority of psychiatrist are incapable of treating pedophiles because they are not using the right techniques. If you want to reduce a pedophiles deviant desires you have to tap into the parts of their brains that they are not using. You may have heard the phrase if you don’t use it you lose it. This does not only apply to the muscles in our bodies. It also applies to neurons. Psychiatrists also have to change a pedophiles chemical preference. A rapist might have a preference for dopamine and adrenaline. The job of a psychiatrist would be to change the individual’s preference to serotonin and oxytocin while they are engaging in sexual activity. All of this is easier said than done. I have some theories on how this can be accomplished but it is too much information to put in this post. It would be more suitable for a book or a website.

possible. but not practical.

IF I COULD MAKE THE RULES

 

I spend a lot of time thinking about what I would do if I had the power to write the laws that people were forced to live by. What you see below are some of the laws that I would make regarding sexuality.

 

A person can engage in consensual sexual activity with someone under the age of 12 if their age is within 2 years of the individual.

 

A person can engage in consensual sexual activity with someone between the ages of 12 and 16 if their age is within 5 years of the individual.

 

The legal age of consent is 16

 

If someone engages in consensual illegal sexual activity with an individual over the age of 12 it is a misdemeanor offense.

 

Incest is legal if the consensual sex is with individuals that are 18 years or older.

 

It is a felony offense for a parent or guardian to engage in consensual sexual activity with their children if they are under the age of 18

 

It is a misdemeanor offense for siblings to engage in consensual sexual activity if both individuals are not over the age 18

 

People can possess child pornography, but it is a felony offense to produce it and to sell it.

no, no no. stop such psuedo science nonsense

[C1ay]

I don't think Medical Science is the right forum for it. This is more a psychology issue, as far as I can see. A social science issue, anyway.

 

I can't say that I necessarily agree. While I do believe that it is a psychology issue for some I believe it could be a medical issue for many as well.

 

As a teenager I had the same repulsive feelings about gays that many gay bashers had, that individuals had made a choice to engage in this type of behavior. Then I met Terry through a girlfriend of mine I was dating at the time named Jane. It turned out that Jane was bi and Terry was her girlfriend on the side. I did not know it at the time when Jane and I went to Terry's one night and Jane got drunk and passed out. This left Terry and I to have a long talk into the night where she spilled the beans about her and Jane.

 

Terry could tell when she first revealed their secret that I had a distasteful view of the news she'd revealed. Then she asked the question, did I choose to like girls or did it just happen naturally. She knew the answer already as I told her that nature had taken care of that for me. She then said that she hadn't made any choice either. She said that sometime around puberty girls just started to look different to her. She pointed out how some girls are just born to be carpenters and some men to be florists. These people didn't choose to have these dispositions, they were just born this way. What she said made sense and changed my view forever.

 

I have since met many gay people and I don't think I can say at this point that any I have met chose to be the way they are. They were born that way, they live with it and they're happy with it. As I contemplated more and more about this it occured to that at least some pedophiles are in the same situation, they don't choose to be attracted to children, somehow nature has played a trick on them. It's really not hard to imagine if you think of all of the other kinds of birth defects that there are.

 

Pedophilia does pose a different kind of problem for society though. For consenting adults that are born atttracted to the same sex, I feel that there are no victims. This is not the case with pedophilia, the children are victims. In the case for pedophilia, some of them are victims too because their condition makes them unfit for society, but not because of any conscious choice they've made.

 

I do believe there are also peds do have a purely psychological problem. They are a result of something like a flaw in their upbringing that has triggered some mental defect that may not be the result of a genetic dispostion. For that group some psychological treatment may be effective. This would not be the case for a genetically caused orientation towards children, for this group the only real hope is a medical solution. For that reason I see this as a genetic problem like any other and that makes it a medical problem.

[TINNY]

how does one become attracted to another person anyway?

[IDMclean]

how does one become attracted to another person anyway?

Simple yet oh so complex question.

 

popular Theories put forth a veriety of things from chemical predisposition in the brain from Genetic and Enviromental development and Expression. To the Psychology of the individual. People you admire and respect that you've had long term relationships will particularly impact your veiw of beauty... or so it is said...

[IrishEyes]

As I contemplated more and more about this it occured to that at least some pedophiles are in the same situation, they don't choose to be attracted to children, somehow nature has played a trick on them. It's really not hard to imagine if you think of all of the other kinds of birth defects that there are.

 

Pedophilia is a trick of nature? Are you serious? Pardon me for being torn between shock and disgust for a moment.

Ok, moment is over. This post will have to be quick, as I have studying to do today, but I HAD to check it before I started in on the books. No wait, I didn't HAVE to check it. I WANTED to check it. And as I am used to having most of my WANTS fulfilled, I CHOSE to check the thread. Knowing that I should be studying instead, and knowing that I never spend 'just a few minutes' on Hypography, I still CHOSE to log on and see what was happening. Can you guess where I am going with this???!!??

 

I can accept that there are people that are pre-disposed to certain things. Alcohol seems like an obvious example. Drugs are a possibility. As are many other examples of addictive behaviours. I've recently done a lot of study on addictions, and how 'genetic' they are, and what can be done to 'curb those appetites'. However, what it boils down to is what we choose to act on... did you get that key idea of CHOICE again?

 

If I know that my mom is an alcoholic, and my dad is an alcoholic, and three generations back on both sides are also alcoholics, I am probably going to think there may be a chance that I could also become an alcoholic. Now, KNOWING this, should I take the chance and start drinking on a regular basis? HELLO!! The same thing gfoes for any medical condition. My father is a diabetic. Should I be concerned? YES. And I have done the research to know what can bring on this condition, and I know things I should avoid.

 

And personally, I have impulses all the time. There are times when I want to punch my husband in his lovely face. There are times when I want to ram my mini-van into an idiot that has cut me off. There are times when I want to smoke a whole pack of cigarettes. In each of these cases, I have a choice to commit the act or not. If I chose to commit the act, I also have to be willing to accept the consequences of my action. I can't blame my grandmother for passing on the desire to smoke, when it's ME that lights up. I can't blame my abusive father for passing on a 'violent' gene when it's me that punches the hubby, or rams the idiotic driver.

 

I deal with this on a daily basis. I enjoy gambling. That's something that is inside of me, probably genetic. I LOVE to gamble, always have. I crave it sometimes. I grew up in Las Vegas, and really enjoyed going to casinos. When I was 17, I snuck in all the time and gambled to pay my bills (I lived in my own apartment at 17). Now, when I choose a vacation spot, I do NOT go to Vegas or Atlantic City. When I pay for my gas, I AVOID places that sell lottery tickets, usually. I have urges, but I have learned to control them. Giving in would mean financial ruin for my family, and that is not something I am willing to be responsible for, so I DO NOT GAMBLE. How difficult is this to understand?

 

Having pedophiliac urges does not make a person a pedophile. ACTING on those urges does. Whether pre-disposed or not, it's the consummation of those urges or desires that makes this a crime. It's no different than wanting to kill someone. You're not a murderer until you actually KILL the person. You CHOOSE to become a murderer, regardless of how much rage may be passed on in your genes.

[IrishEyes]

It's not so much that boys can't be molested, but that they can only be molested by another male (as in the Catholic priest controversy).

 

Was this a statement or a question, beccareb? If you are categorically stating that boys can only be molested by men, then explain how girls can be molested by men? Are you equating molestation with sexual penetration, therefore disqualifying women from this? Would you not also consider a woman sexually fondling a boy as molestation? What if it was a man fondling the boy? The gender of the adults hands determine whether fondling is to be considered molestation? I'm sorry, I just don't understand your statement at all, and will be happy if you choose to comment further.

[Tormod]

Do you mean that sexual molestation in general is kept hush-hush, or that the cases of women molesting boys is kept hush-hush?

 

Yes, the latter. I think there are many more cases than we know of. But I cannot back that up with hard evidence.

[IrishEyes]

Yes, the latter. I think there are many more cases than we know of. But I cannot back that up with hard evidence.

Of course not. It's rather impossible to back up anything like that with 'hard evidence', isn't it? I've searched and searched for 'studies' before realizing how pointless it was. If we can only have accurate numbers/stats if people are willing to admit to being molested, yet not all people are willing to admit it, then we will never have accurate numbers. It's not as easy as trying to figure out how many people were born with 6 fingers, is it? That's something that you can see, and document rather easily. Discovering if a person was sexually abused usually only happens if they are discovered while being abused, or they talk about it to someone. Other than that, it's just conjecture, isn't it? If I display 5 of the characteristics of being sexually molested, yet I do not admit to being molested, you can't say for certain that I was. Unless I tell you that I was molested, you only have your suspicions to go on.

 

But I agree that it probably happens a lot more than what is reported, and that boys are under-represented in the statistics, maybe due to the attitude that beccareb suggested. Many people may not see it as abuse when it happens to a pre-teenage boy, as they do when it happens to a pre-teenage girl.

[alxian]

Is it best to forgive and forget as you would with normal wrongs committed by a friend, or to regard somethings unforgivable? Or, is it best to forgive but not forget, as in, forgive them but never leave your children alone with the person? Is a child molestor always a child molestor, or is it possible for it to be an isolated event?

 

when its a crazy old uncle, grandfather father etc and the family feels that the person does not deserve years in prison for a missap [even though they know he'd do it again] yes i think the forgive but never forget tactic is best.. always watch the children around that person.

 

when an adult though starts molesting children and there is no real way to keep that person away from children thereafter then its prison or reprogramming in my opinion.

 

and no i don't think such deviance is permanent, its demonstrative of weakness thats for sure, the person has a need for which their is no quelling, when that need is as involved as intimacy and release of sexual tension preying upon the weak and unsuspecting is far easier than the more accepted method of dating and drugging/inebriating an adult.

 

still though a molester can be reformed but will live with the craving [if they can't find a mate as part of their therapy] and guilt of their earlier weakness.

[bumab]

when its a crazy old uncle, grandfather father etc and the family feels that the person does not deserve years in prison for a missap [even though they know he'd do it again] yes i think the forgive but never forget tactic is best.. always watch the children around that person. .

 

Definatly. While I've not had a child be molested (and so never really been tested in this ideal), I feel forgiveness is far better then simple life imprisonment. It seems very tragic that one persons life is cut short through a few moments of weakness. It's like you've given up on them. Punishment- sure. But punishment is not a good motivator, as I see every day in the high school where I teach. Punishment is for short term solutions...

 

.....the more accepted method of dating and drugging/inebriating an adult.

 

i love reading your posts... always a laugh :o

[alxian]

... thank you.. will be glowing all day now.

 

as for the correctional institution being overcrowded.. anyone else think reprogramming should be used for phycological abhorations in a persons character?

 

individuals undergo such hypnotherapy sessions of their own accord, could not a prisoner opt for something similar?

 

i only ask because its becomming a trend for sexual predators to only have to serve very short sentences and its clear they are not reformed. instead of just releasing them i think they should be reprogrammed and then studied to make sure the programming 'takes'. thus the old 'not in my neighborhood' fear which seems to be justified for sexual predators who are released into society are actually healthy again.

 

now.. the programming itself, merely a mind purge? removing the desire for other people? or is that criminally dehumanizing? [but don't they deserve it after demonstrating that they are not able to be civil?] or should the reprogramming be more invasive? like electroshock therapy? in that sexual thoughts thereafter generate a pain response? like pavlov and his dogs?

 

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:xsl5-RtntqkJ:mlis.state.md.us/1997rs/fnotes/bil_0004/hb0344.rtf+reprogramming+sexual+predators&hl=en&start=1&lr=lang_en

 

i had intented to find links to such reprogramming.. google the term ugh.. to much information to wade through.

 

i say hypnotize the bastards and make them feel like their manhood is on fire when child and sex are mentioned in the same thought string. similarly make females feel a fire [an unpleasant one, should they think of corrupting minors].. of course you'll then have to consider reprogramming the entire population so that the crimes never happen at all, but then you run the risk of desensitizing the brain to any sexual deviance.. an end to civilization by prudence.. hmmm have to rethink that one....

[RiverRat]

I listened to talk radio a good bit. I listened to a WV representative that is on the oversight and budget committee for the states prison systems. He quoted a figure that the recidivism rate for ‘sexual offenders’ was 85%-87%. He mentioned that the consensus of data available to him was that sexual offenders are very unlikely to be reformed.

 

My view is that every person has a ‘sexual orientation’. Wether it is a man that desires a very young girl or man that desires a very young boy or a female that desires other same age females, it is still an ‘orientation’. (I’m not sure how traditional rape would fit in this though … as it would be a male that has a ‘traditional orientation’ yet executes his desires against the will of the female. I guess this even may be an ‘orientation’ if the individual desires forced sex over consensual)

 

Currently … we do not have the ability to change the orientation of homosexuals so I’m not sure we can change the orientation of pedophiles. Until we understand the very basics of sexual orientation and desires, we may only be able to contain the symptoms.