Brain Wiring Redux

[Zythryn]

Questor, the original flavor in this thread seemed to be that you wanted to find a way to determine if someone is a conservative or liberal via brain scans.

Statements such as:

I think I

CAN tell the difference between a liberal and a conservative and offered to do so in my previous posts.

and such seem to reinforce that idea.

If this is not your position, please correct me as to what exactly your position is.

 

With that said, you then were asked a hypothetical question about exactly which traits you would scan for if you could. You mentioned a number of which you then state:

I know of no research that would link these traits exclusively to either hemisphere or either political party.

I am following you so far. However, are you also saying that your original idea does not attach any of these traits to liberal or conservative thinking people?

If so, haven't you just defeated your original concept?

If you do believe any of these traits are solely found in one form of political thought or another, could you state explicitly which ones and what observations you base this hypothesis on?

[questor]

Zythryn, my original post was about different wiring in the two brain hemispheres. If you accept the research papers on this which are unanimous concerning the traits inso far as I can tell, then this may be the reason 40% of the populous is liberal and 40% is conservative. If you would accept that the traits attributed to one hemisphere are more desirable in a national leader, then people would probably prefer that person in office.

This question was not asked:

''With that said, you then were asked a hypothetical question about exactly which traits you would scan for if you could. You mentioned a number of which you then state:''

The traits I listed were described as necessary or beneficial and are not the same traits listed in research papers. If a brain scan was done, it could show the person was a right brain thinker or left brainer or crossover. Observation and personal history could shed light on the other traits I listed.

this quote:

''I think I

CAN tell the difference between a liberal and a conservative and offered to do so in my previous posts. '' I stand by this claim.

 

You could save us a lot of time and replication if you would go to my original post and read the links. The original was placed in The Strange Claims Forum

I am treating your questions with respect even though this ground has been plowed thoroughly. If you have specific questions after reading my original post and have a true interest in the subject, I will be happy to converse.

[InfiniteNow]

Your "thorough" is my "non-sequitur" and lack of direct linkage.

[Zythryn]

Questor, I have read your original post/thread. And your links say nothing about what you have referred to as "my theory".

So please, tell us in your own words, what your theory is.

I see other peoples research and papers and the idea that differernt political bents 'light up' different parts of the brain. But I see nothing about 'hard wired' or that using differnet parts of the brain is the CAUSE of the different political bents rather than the RESULT.

Please clarify YOUR position. Or if your position is EXACTLY duplicated by another paper, feel free to post the link (the don't believe you feel EXACTLY the same as all three of the links posted).

[InfiniteNow]

I thought you might get a kick out of this, questor:

 

 

 

YouTube - "To Be a Liberal" by Roy Zimmerman http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3qgiNPVpSM

[questor]

Glad you have a sense of humor. Save this so you can see the old right hemisphere in action.

[CraigD]

If I may offer you some advice, Questor, I’d stop placing so much focus on terms like “left/right brain, brained, brainer, etc.”. To an audience with at least a basic understanding of neurology and neuroanotomy, these terms suggest the sort of “pseudoscientific exaggeration of the research” described in the wikipedia article “lateralization of brain function”:

Hines (1987) states that the research on brain lateralization is valid as a research program, though commercial promoters have applied it to promote subjects and products far out of the implications of the research. For example, the implications of the research have no bearing on psychological interventions such as

EMDR

and

neurolinguistic programming

(Drenth 2003:53), brain training equipment, or management training. One explanation for why research on lateralization is so prone to exaggeration and false application is that the left-right brain dichotomy is an easy-to-understand notion, which can be oversimplified and misused for promotion in the guise of science. The research on lateralization of brain functioning is ongoing, and its implications are always tightly delineated, whereas the pseudoscientific applications are exaggerated, and applied to an extremely wide range of situations.

To summaries the general scientific consensus, much of which has been discussed in this and your previous “brain wiring” thread, the localization of brain function is much more complicated, and varies between individuals more greatly, than can be well described by simple left/right brain categorization. Essentially no human behavior, from emotional outburst to dispassionate exercise of math, occur in a single region or hemisphere of the cerebrum, or only in the cerebrum, so simple “this is done there” mappings are overly simplistic and wrong.

 

Your proposal seems to me simply the idea that objective scientific tests of brain function might provide a valuable tool in evaluating the suitability of people for various jobs, in particular public office. This is certainly not an unreasonable idea, and not at all unprecedented: it is one of the central planks the Natural Law Party, a multi-national collection of political parties that have included such famous people as late spiritual leader Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, physicist, 3-time US presidential candidate, and, according to many, (myself included) terrible pseudoscientist John Hagelin, and late musician George Harrison.

 

The failure of Natural Law Party candidates to gain more than a fraction of a percent of state or nation-wide votes in any election (though Hagelin, it should be noted, received nearly 24% of the US presidential vote in his home county in 1992), and the disbandment of most or all of these parties in recent years, should, I think, serve as a caution sign of the difficulty of promoting your position. You’d do well, I think, to study and understand these political movements, and the reasons for their apparent failure.

[questor]

Zythryn, the original post was closed and moved under the agreement that everything had been discussed. Everyone had their say, and you are now asking me to restate what is already available in the posts. I would like to know what your specific interest is in this subject, is it to argue incessantly about what has already been argued or to pursue further research information? There is such a thing as wasting time.

[InfiniteNow]

Zythryn, the original post was closed and moved under the agreement that everything had been discussed. Everyone had their say, and you are now asking me to restate what is already available in the posts. I would like to know what your specific interest is in this subject, is it to argue incessantly about what has already been argued or to pursue further research information? There is such a thing as wasting time.

 

 

Since this thread has offered zero new evidence in favor of the proposal being made, and since questor refuses to address the questions posed to him, I move that this thread also be closed, as it's no different from the other one which already was.

 

All in favor, say "Aye."

 

Aye

 

Aye.

[REASON]

Aye!

[questor]

Craig, I agree with most of what you say. Throughout the two threads I have repeatedly stated I am only speaking from personal observation colored by some current research being done on the subject. I have never described my ideas as science, but I think that someday the research will show differing, imbedded thought patterns that separate people into opposing groups. The philosophy of life and governance and personal accountability

differs and affects our current lives and the future. That difference is obvious today and is inimical to our society. Why is it so?

[questor]

Craig, here are two of my original ''Brain Wiring'' posts explaining my thoughts.

post#47, post # 54

I looked at the Natural Law Party information and it was ripe for failure from the start. The religious part didn't help and since they were part liberal and part conservative,they alienated both groups of the people right out of the box. There are better ways to approach this dichotomy in thinking.

[Zythryn]

Questor,

 

I have yet to get an answer from you to this specific question:

What specific traits do you feel describe a liberal canidate and what specific traits do you feel describe a conservative canidate.

No where in either of your threads have a seen an answer to that simple question. You have posted links, given vague answers and such, but nothing specific.

Please, for my own clarification, just list the traits you see as 'liberal' or 'conservative'. If I have missed this, please give me a post number and thread.

If you can't answer this, I would also suggest closing the thread due to refusal to provide information about your own stance, limiting the ability to discuss your idea.

 

Edit: I see you posted the numbers as I was posting. Thank you for that part (link to #47 in old thread: http://hypography.com/forums/strange-claims-forum/13331-brain-wiring-5.html#post199579).

However, I don't see how you got from those observations to tests for specific traits, liberal or conservative. Did I read something into your posts I should not have?

[REASON]

Questor,

 

I have yet to get an answer from you to this specific question:

What specific traits do you feel describe a liberal canidate and what specific traits do you feel describe a conservative canidate.

No where in either of your threads have a seen an answer to that simple question. You have posted links, given vague answers and such, but nothing specific.

Please, for my own clarification, just list the traits you see as 'liberal' or 'conservative'.

 

Yes. I can't wait to see that as well.

[modest]

I'm waiting on that as well and I don't mean to change the subject.

 

But, was there a study that tries to tie favored brain hemisphere to political ideology? I ask because there would be a rather large leap in logic otherwise. Saying ideology is genetic (which there is a study implying) and saying left/right brain has associated traits doesn't equal left/right brain ideology. Unless I've missed something, questor is bringing together two concepts that are yet to be related.

 

So: is there any source demonstrating that favored brain hemisphere has an associated favored political ideology, questor?

 

~modest

[Overdog]

Suppose your every thought is pre-determined from the beginning of time, and we discovered a technology for determining or predicting what those thoughts are going to be.

 

What would be the wisdom of ever allowing that technology to be used?

[questor]

Since there have been several votes to close this thread--let's close the thread!