Do you believe in Ghosts?

[Overdog]

No it just means that USA education is crap and Yanks are gullible fools.

 

Some of us resemble that remark...:D

[CraigD]

Ghosts are real. they can superimpose their personality on anyone.

Dkv, as you are posting at a science site, you need to use the scientific method.

 

As hypography is primarily a science discussion forum, not a basic science research institute, the usual way this is done is to refer to publications by and articles about actual scientific experiments. Your claim, however – that ghosts, spirits, non-corporeal entities, etc. exist objectively (as opposed to subjectively, that is, imaginarily), and that they superimpose, overlay, possess, etc. biological organism, particularly humans. – will prove difficult, I suspect, to source in any credible scientific literature (not that you should abandon efforts to locate such literature – as you’ve been told many times, you should back up your claims with such finds). Faced with such a scarcity of literature, an alternative is to design your own experiment.

 

There’s actually a well-established protocol for designing such experiments, the one written for the JREF’s Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge (see “challenge application”). It can be distilled to a few critical steps:

1. Agree on an effect to be tested, and precisely how it will be tested
   
2. Agree on what outcomes of that test will be considered affirmation of the effect
   
3. Conduct the test
   

An online forum is poorly suited to the 3rd step, but well to the first 2.

 

So, dkv, here’s what you need to do:

1. Describe an effect that is requires a ghost
   
2. Describe how the effect can be tested, including what, in precise terms, constitutes a successful test.
   

What your fellow hypographers need to do in response is agree to your experimental design.

 

For example, a ghost might read a secretly generated random number from within a sealed box, superimposing itself on a human subject, and tell an experimented that number. The effect would be the subject stating the number. A successful test would be one in which the number states matches the one in the sealed box, and cannot be attributed to chance – for example, if the number was large, say 16 digits.

 

If you can put your extraordinary claim into such terms, you’ve made it scientific. Otherwise, it’s not, and as such, isn’t suited for discussion at hypography.

[Moontanman]

I am not going to debate the numbers and conclusions of statisticians. Personally I believe 3 things are unspeakable Sex, Drugs and Statistics. Situtation is always worse.

 

What? No Rock and Roll? Please clarify this statement it makes no sense and seems to be totally disconnected from the rest of the conversation. I used to work in statistical analysis for DuPont, I may not be qualified as an expert but your allusions to statistics makes no sense. While in theory statistics can be used to prove anything, it's not good form to use them to support unverified data :D I would really like to know how sex and drugs connects to statistics in an unspeakable way.

[HydrogenBond]

When we talk about ghosts and paranormal, science talks about reason and logic. But there are entire branches of science based on empiricism, which is not conclusions based on reasoning. This is the type of data the paranormal people have. There is not a rational explanation like any empirical model, just empirical data. There is a dual standard, since neither are fully rational.

 

One way to explain this science subjectivity can be seen with an example. The odds of winning a state lottery might be 1 in 100,000,000. Based on that it should not occur, yet someone wins it all the time. Someone will defy the odds and do what should be next to impossible. The only difference between the lottery and the paranormal is one can hold up something that is verifiable; check. With the paranormal there is no check to hold up and it comes down to the word of the person that they defied the odds.

 

Even though we know someone will win lottery, if you took a small test sample of the population, of people who feel lucky, to prove that the lottery can indeed be won, based on the results of this experiment, one might have to conclude it is not possible. It is not something one can win on demand.

 

In other words, the experimental result might draw the wrong conclusion based on this small test sample. It is an artifact of empiricism, since it is not rational and can defy reality. This would be an interesting experiment, to see if science can predict the reality, that someone will win the lottery, based on a small data cross section. It is not the paranormal event or the lottery winner that is the ghost, but the conclusion empiricism might draw.

[Moontanman]

During Olympics the Chinese President recognized the role of religions and invited pastors to see the opening ceremony. Undoubtedly religions have a great influence on the politics of the world. It is interesting to note that Bush recently advised China to not to be afraid of Religion and give greater freedom to the religions.

Never before Chinese had allowed its communist ideology to be challenged this way. Therefore the question remains why religions can exert such a great influence on the minds of people if it is fake? Why religions survive with ever increasing knowledge base in the age of Petabytes?

 

 

Bush is all about big business, his main business is Big Oil but religion is also a big business. Unlike Oil which actually has a product religion only sells BS, to make this Sell of BS grow they consistently need new customers. Bush may not think of religion as BS or even business but he buys his share of it and buys into the idea of spreading it around. Religion is the biggest business in the entire world, there is reason to believe more money passes through religion that any other organization, it's not taxable in the vast majority of places and and no accounting for the money is made. Religion is a parasite and it spreads by converting new people. Ghosts are no more real than religion, in some places ghosts are a main part of religion not a side venture, they are just another form of BS to allow some people to appear to have more knowledge and therefore power than others. Everyone has hallucinations, most who have them would like to understand what they are. Ghost stories are just another way for some one to pretend to have the answers so they can feel superior to someone else. If you have proof of ghosts bring it on, I think it would way cool to have proof of ghosts, not as cool as proof of religion but cool none the less.

[dkv]

You are simply hiding behind the veil of materialism. Didnt I gave to instances where paranormal things actually happen. I agree that those incidents are ancedotal but thats the property of what we are trying to describe.. Do you expect to see flying objects ?

I can argue from the principles of causuality but you guys appear to have closed mindset. You guys are biased because you discuss theology which is not based on any evidence.. not even historical.Will you believe that earth and heaven were created in 6 days ? If not then why do you discuss such things? Will you believe that UFO kidnaps humans and animals or will believe in the crop circles? If not why do you discuss such things? Because you see pictures? This is not a sign of reasonable forum.(has anyone seen the W boson ? No but we discuss by reason)

Selective supernaturalism (without warnings)only suggests a desire to keep things under the wrap of irrationality. Which religion doesnt talk about the ghosts?

 

You warnings do not and can not move my faith in the ghosts.Ever.

*it is not exactly a faith because there are more anecdotal evidences than UFO ,Crop Circles and even God.It carries a more genuine appeal than those exciting pictures.

If interested we can discuss it further otherwise there is no point in exchanging warnings.

[Moontanman]

I ain't afraid of no ghosts! I ain't afraid of no ghosts! :D

[Zythryn]

You guys are biased because you discuss theology which is not based on any evidence.. not even historical.Will you believe that earth and heaven were created in 6 days ? If not then why do you discuss such things? Will you believe that UFO kidnaps humans and animals or will believe in the crop circles?

 

"You keep using that word [theology], I do not think it means what you think it means"

 

dkv, very few here, and possibly no one responding to this thread believe the earth and heavens were created in 6 days. You continue to harp on 'Theology' but I don't think you understand what theology really IS even though it has been explained to you.

Could you please tell us directly what you believe 'Theology' means?

[dkv]

Theology is the rational and systematic study of religion and its influences and of the nature of religious truth.

That includes the content of the religions.

How can you study anything without actually analyzing its content?

How can we study fruit without eating it ?

[Thunderbird]

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato (427 BC - 347 BC)

[Jet2]

Just like if you believe in devils, you believe in angles.

If you believe in ghosts, you would believe in God.

So no worries and relax.

 

And the most important point I would like to make is people tend to believe their own creations!

[Zythryn]

Theology is the rational and systematic study of religion and its influences and of the nature of religious truth.

That includes the content of the religions.

How can you study anything without actually analyzing its content?

How can we study fruit without eating it ?

Bold added by me.

Going with your definition:

Can you analyze something, and yet not believe in it?

If, in studying a religion, you must believe in it, what if you study multiple religions?

[alexander]

I ain't afraid of no ghosts!

 

Chuck Norris is not afraid of ghosts, ghosts are afraid of Chuck Norris ;)

[asimon2008]

I do because my mom told me she saw her sister in white smiling at her. She told me her expression on her face was that she would in a good place.

[Michaelangelica]

Some OZ Ghost stories

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[William Honey]

Psychologists have known it for a long time that the Mind can transcend time and space.

Some of the phenomenon are listed below

1.Near Death Experience (NDE)

2.Out of Body Experience(OBE)

3.Inner Voice (no more a psychological disease)

4.Premonition

5.Past Life Regression

6.Psychic Dreams

7.Multiple Personality Disorder (one body many personalities..attributed to schizophrenia)

8.Religions believe in Ghost

9.Educated Americans believe in Ghost

 

http://home.sandiego.edu/~baber/logic/gallup.html

10.If the nature is transactional then logically there is need a to propose continuity of life after death.

11.Cases of Rebirth

12.Real Ghost encounters.

(the list is incomplete)

 

It is true that there were many fardulent cases in the past but if we search the web for the specific cases mentioned above then we will find that no can doubt on the occurrence of such events... what is debatable is what causes it?

I propose that ghosts are responsible..

Do you think Ghosts exist?

Is it possible to formulate the laws of supernatural by proposing existence of goshtons?

 

Hello dkv:

 

I enjoyed all the facts you have presented here about the possibility of ghosts.