Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[Thunderbird]

Gallup.com Election 2008 Coverage Looks like Obama is still leading in the polls dispite McCain's Pallin pick. If you like following the trends and demographics in the polls this is the best site I have found.

[jackson33]

Thunderbird; Anti-war, pacifist or isolationism are common in all society, basing their opinions on many things, religion to politics and between.

 

If the person, is rooted in his/her country, its history or whatever you consider the the value of that country and can base that objection on those values, patriotism is not lost. If however you fear being drafted, knowing your ancestry had no choice or you not concerned for the future of your society, your descendent's, what could be become their (and your) place in not as you wish, or simply don't care what happens to others, then there is no love of country to begin with...

 

If Bush II had not gone into Iraq and Iraq had developed a bomb or if he had invaded Kuwait a second time, slowed or stopped the flow of oil, his son's killed off the remaining Kurd's or somehow the 'Worlds Economy' had crumbled, we would be discussing his incompetency. If Iran does achieve Nuclear arms, or Russia does intend on building back the USSR, Chavez spreads his idea of democracy through out South America or North Korea takes out its frustrations on South Korea or if what should be an insignificant "Islamic Fundamentalist Movement' becomes a major threat, or any of the problems in Africa become major, whats there to prevent this. The deterrence has to come from at least one place. Until the UN, EU or NATO can be that force, the US has to play protector of democracy.

[Moontanman]

On a less serious note, My favorite rock group has filed a injunction against McCain for using their song "Barracuda" by Heart, as his running mates theme song. Jackson Brown did the same thing a few months ago for using his song "Running on Empty" I guess the neocons think they can do anything after 8 years of Bush.

[Thunderbird]

Thunderbird; Anti-war, pacifist or isolationism are common in all society, basing their opinions on many things, religion to politics and between.

 

If the person, is rooted in his/her country, its history or whatever you consider the the value of that country and can base that objection on those values, patriotism is not lost. If however you fear being drafted, knowing your ancestry had no choice or you not concerned for the future of your society, your descendent's, what could be become their (and your) place in not as you wish, or simply don't care what happens to others, then there is no love of country to begin with...

 

If Bush II had not gone into Iraq and Iraq had developed a bomb or if he had invaded Kuwait a second time, slowed or stopped the flow of oil, his son's killed off the remaining Kurd's or somehow the 'Worlds Economy' had crumbled, we would be discussing his incompetency. If Iran does achieve Nuclear arms, or Russia does intend on building back the USSR, Chavez spreads his idea of democracy through out South America or North Korea takes out its frustrations on South Korea or if what should be an insignificant "Islamic Fundamentalist Movement' becomes a major threat, or any of the problems in Africa become major, whats there to prevent this. The deterrence has to come from at least one place. Until the UN, EU or NATO can be that force, the US has to play protector of democracy.

 

1.There were no WMD's or yellow cake.. Bush Lied.:hihi:

 

2.Saddam was in no position to invade Kuwait a second time, remember we had the support of the world, can you remember back that far? :(

3. You have list of what if's of possible disaster scenario’s they are only possible because of the invasion of Iraq.

4. The Bush administration has never ever been a protector of democracy quite the opposite. The free world would agree with me on these points. ;)

[Turtle]

I can't believe you yanks are going to let the Republicans screw you again.

What is it with you and illogical, old, doddery guys?

 

;) It is doddery old women. They constitute a major 'block' supporting McCain and they support McCain because they oppose Obama and they oppose Obama because he is black and they don't care that his mom is white because she is white trash for marrying a black man. Plain, and simple. Pushed to testify, some old women admit they're racist and then declare I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am. For all the honor & service I admired in my mother, I despised her racist ways. Shame on you old white women. :hihi:

[jackson33]

1.There were no WMD's or yellow cake.. Bush Lied.:hihi:

 

2.Saddam was in no position to invade Kuwait a second time, remember we had the support of the world, can you remember back that far? :(

3. You have list of what ifs of possible disaster scenario’s they are only possible because of the invasion of Iraq.

4. The Bush administration has never ever been a protector of democracy quite the opposite. The free world would agree with me on these points. ;)

 

 

3- 'What ifs'; This is why were not discussing one outcome, rather than another. We could do the same for attitudes in the 1930's, when the US sat around doing nothing. In the end millions of lives were lost, billions spent (trillions in todays dollar), basically because one little thug wanted power. I have listed the current crop of thugs...

 

1- Suggest you ask the Kurds if WMD were in Saddam's arsenal. Never the less, Bush, the US Congress, the Clinton Administration all had the same evidence to assume the assumption. Opinion; I have my doubts on nuclear weapons being available, but think more than one neighbor to Saddam would disagree.

 

2- So the US/Britain and the United Nations should have kept on being targets flying around the 'no fly zone', UN being ignored, allowing more and more innocents to be killed for say another hundred years. Somebody someday would have to make a decision and one person finally did...

 

4- You will have to specify a democratic country that the US is not under treaty with, that we would (what if) not defend, or does not agree with the American Foreign Policy. Some societies yes, but if troubled by one of those 'what ifs' guess who will get called on.

[Moontanman]

I can't believe you yanks are going to let the Republicans screw you again.

What is it with you and illogical, old, doddery guys?

 

For those interested I will look out for immigration details for Oz and NZ for those giving up.

 

Still its nice to know Palin is a Russian expert living so close as she does. (as Mc Cane's wife said)

I live near the hospital. I thought i might run up and do some surgery tomorrow

 

Trust me Michael, we are doing everything with in reason to assure the neocons don't get power again. We are in for a tough battle that may not even matter in the long run. I have long thought the neocons intend to take over the country. They almost ripped a stitch when Clinton was elected, they whined and cried bitched and fumed over ever little thing he did, he couldn't even lie about a BJ, and spent billions trying to get him out of office. They acted like they just couldn't stand the fact the country didn't go the way they wanted. I think the neocons orchestrated most if not all of Clinton's foreign policy failures. The election of Bush was somewhat less than legitimate and their tactics were completely ruthless. Bush told so many deadly lies it was amazing but the neocons who were so adamant that the pres shouldn't lie about anything private or public didn't object at all in fact they came up with the lies. Bush was and is just a neocon puppet. I think they have developed a shadow government and will do anything to keep themselves in power. While they can operate with a democratic administration they would prefer a republican one because the republicans are easier to influence. If Obama wins it will have to be by a wide margin, a close election will be stolen again by the neocons.

[Thunderbird]

3- 'What ifs';

.

Jackson, if you feel strongly about these “what if” start another thread, we are drifting off topic. I will happy to disscuss these points in another thread. :hihi:

[coldcreation]

Jackson, if you feel strongly about these “what if” start another thread, we are drifting off topic. I will happy to disscuss these points in another thread. :)

 

Why would foreign policy be off topic?

 

 

Here is a news flash:

 

In four years from now,

Palin will be President of the United States of America.

 

 

 

CC

[Moontanman]

Why would foreign policy be off topic?

 

 

Here is a news flash:

 

In four years from now,

Palin will be President of the United States of America.

 

 

 

CC

 

Now that is a nightmare scenario :)

[Thunderbird]

Why would foreign policy be off topic?

 

 

Here is a news flash:

 

In four years from now,

Palin will be President of the United States of America.

 

 

 

CC

She would have to make VP first, then McCain would need to die.

 

Foreign policy of the present candidates is not off topic. A drawn out discussion on what if scenarios about the war in Iraq from decisions made six years ago will take the discussion of track.

 

 

Are you a Pallin supporter or just a cynic ?

[Racoon]

Like Obama stated earlier..

You don't hear a word about "the Economy" from the Republicans.

Why?

Becuz' they screwed it up.

 

They only warn of higher taxes.

But Theres not too much left to take out the average American's paycheck these days. :)

 

It got Clinton elected in 1992 and it will get Obama elected in 2008.

Btw, once Hillary gets after the Repubs, and people start hearing Joe Biden, I don't think this vote will be as close as the pollsters suggest.

 

Not unless its rigged, again *alledgedly*

[Moontanman]

Like Obama stated earlier..

You don't hear a word about "the Economy" from the Republicans.

Why?

Becuz' they screwed it up.

 

They only warn of higher taxes.

But Theres not too much left to take out the average American's paycheck these days. :)

 

It got Clinton elected in 1992 and it will get Obama elected in 2008.

Btw, once Hillary gets after the Repubs, and people start hearing Joe Biden, I don't think this vote will be as close as the pollsters suggest.

 

Not unless its rigged, again *alledgedly*

 

If the election is close I expect to see the neocons try to steal it.

[Thunderbird]

 

It got Clinton elected in 1992 and it will get Obama elected in 2008.

Btw, once Hillary gets after the Repubs, and people start hearing Joe Biden, I don't think this vote will be as close as the pollsters suggest.

 

Not unless its rigged, again *alledgedly*

Oh yea.. Watch for the bounce after the debates…. Biden contrasted With Pallin,.:). My god I cannot wait. McCain vs Obama who will get the bounce there...Obama. Come Nov there should be a 9-11 % spread unless they cheat. What they will do is try to convince people that he is secretly an Islamic terrorist. Spreading fear an ignorance is and has always been the Repo party’s power to govern people. :)

[Michaelangelica]

Not impressed with Palin after reading this

Mayor Palin: A Rough Record -- Printout -- TIME

 

Banning Books; now there's a new idea.

[modest]

I saw them throw out a couple protestors tonight & 1 last night. The newsies didn't say a word, just put the camera on them.

 

I felt bad for McCain with the heckling. It was not only unfair to McCain who I've always liked, but it also made Dems look bad.

 

I occasionally think that Democrats need to be more aggressive at least in campaigning. But, then I see the likes of this week's convention. A big theme that I heard over and over was stressing the differences between "small town" or rural values and the rest of the country.

 

That really frustrates and disgusts me. What possible good can come from trying to split the country in two and pitting rural against 'city folk'? They do this for the sake of an election with no apparent concern for the unity of the country.

 

I am exceedingly happy that Obama is not attacking rural America the way the GOP is attacking the character of the Democratic base. His one out-of-context quote about clinging to guns is not an example otherwise. The overall character of Obama's campaign is not to point out differences between groups of people and it would be so easy for the campaign to do this considering Palin's family. Did anyone see the MySpace of the Daughter's boyfiend? :)

 

I always thought McCain was the sort that wouldn't do the typical Republican 'Vote for me or you hate America' type thing or attack the values of people who disagree with him. But, his whole campaign is taking that tone and it's just - it's so disappointing :)

 

~modest

[Thunderbird]

Did anyone see the MySpace of the Daughter's boyfiend? :)

 

I always thought McCain was the sort that wouldn't do the typical Republican 'Vote for me or you hate America' type thing or attack the values of people who disagree with him. But, his whole campaign is taking that tone and it's just - it's so disappointing :)

 

~modest

Good Points modest. I just heard the boy friends MySace page on Real Time. I thought it was kind of funny, he is what he is I guess, but this poor dumb guy is being forced into a marriage that he obviously doesn’t want. As soon as the election is over with he will be off knocking up someone else’s teenage daughter.