Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[freeztar]

I'm a little sick of the constant implication that all well to do people were born with a silver spoon in their mouths. It shows a total lack of knowledge and respect for those who do bring themselves up by their own efforts.

 

I agree. It works both ways. My father grew up poor as dirt. He did good in school and pursued scholarships and was able to attend his local community college (after serving in the Navy; Vietnam era). He then transferred to Georgia State University and got a bachelor's degree in business. For ten years after that, he worked incredibly hard. He transferred jobs to a new company and took off from there. He innovated the way his work was done and helped bring on board many new clients. At his peak he was probably making close to $500,000 per year. He came from absolute poverty and built his wealth through working hard and living meager for many years. I'm quite proud of him for that and I think he's a prime example of what you're talking about questor. Fwiw, he's lost everything he had...mainly because of medical issues: brain tumor, diabetes, heart disease, the list goes on. My father is a proud man and always hated government handouts such as social security. It took the whole family years to convince him to seek social security. I wish I had the letter they sent him back. It basically says that even though you submitted a signed letter from your doctor saying you are unfit to work, and have the following conditions: tumor, diabetes, heart disease, etc., we can not offer you social security at this time. It's really funny to read the letter because it is so ridiculous. It's also ridiculous that we know people receiving SS that go and play golf all day. Yet my father has put probably a million dollars into SS over his lifetime and they can't give him a penny. :hihi:

 

The system needs to change. I don't know whether Obama or McCain is better suited for the task, but I hope that whoever is elected will tackle it in one way or another.

 

Mold can be eradicated by the tenant and clorox.

 

You make it sound so easy. ;)

I don't think you understand the situation. I was living in a crap hole of a house (because it was cheap). The basement (where my room was) was periodically flooded because of various plumbing problems in the water room. The carpet in my room would get soaked from time to time and I would have to borrow a dehydrater from my friend to dry out the room (it would take days, sometimes a week). The mold was visible growing up the wall on one side of my room. Of course I hit it with a whole host of chemicals, but peeling back the carpet a bit, I could see it was underneath. The entire carpet would have to be replaced and the floor scrubbed with chems. I was in no kind of monetary position to do this and my landlord would not take any responsibility for it. I had to write her a legal letter to get her to install smoke alarms in the place.

 

There are cheap roach traps that can be used by tenants.

 

Again, you have no idea. I'm not talking about a few roaches here and there. I'm talking about a *serious* infestation. We had the place bombed, sprayed, and trapped. I tried three different kinds of chemicals, as well as boric acid. We were able to kill off the adult population for a little while with these methods, but they would all return in 4-6 weeks, even with continual spraying. We also had a rat living with us (he chewed through my cat5 cable), which I eventually poisoned and removed. We also had bats living in the attic for a while. We were all afraid of going up there. :(

 

A good conversation with a landlord usually generates a symbiotic relationship.

 

 

His property and sizable investment are at risk, you can move out when you please with no risk.

 

Again, you'd have to know the situation. At first, it was a pretty cool guy that rented the place. He would pay us to do renovations to the house, which was win/win. Three months into the lease, he suddenly got cancer and died. His widow took over the lease and she had no idea what she was doing. She also didn't give a rat's ***. Moving out would have forfeited our sizable deposit and possibly brought us into court for the remainder of the lease.

 

Poverty is mostly in the mind, not the pocketbook, and cannot be cured by giving money.

 

Money is essential though! Most of us need it to simply survive. I do agree that mental state can help change poverty, but not always.

 

A person can be poor in dollars yet have a clean house, clean clothes and if he wishes, can eventually achieve success. He can go to the library for free, he can train himself for a variety of jobs, he can constantly try to move ahead rather than sit on his butt. Tell me a good reason why a healthy, high school educated, well spoken person has to live in poverty?

giving up at the first obstacle.

 

The majority of people living in poverty are not what I would classify as healthy, educated, and well spoken. I think this is where you have your blinders on questor.

 

Moontan and Freeztar, what do you think is a fair resolution of the problems you are experiencing?

 

Congress recently proposed a bill that would require welfare benefactors to take drug tests to receive payment. I support such a bill. I also think it should go one step further and provide a means for people that want to get out of poverty and off drugs. Otherwise, it's just raising the bar a bit and making outcasts out of a "lower" group.

 

We need more of this kind of thinking imho. It's like the old proverb says: Give a man a fish, he has food for one day. Teach a man to fish, and he has food for life.

[questor]

Your father has a unique situation that could qualify for governmental or philanthropic help. You must realize that probably most welfare recipients are perfectly physically capable of working. I still cannot understand why you would continue to live in the conditions you describe. You said your salary

was $7.90/hr for 39 hrs/wk/ That is $16021./yr probably tax free. I could make it on that. I couldn't live well, but I could make it for a year or two.

[freeztar]

Your father has a unique situation that could qualify for governmental or philanthropic help. You must realize that probably most welfare recipients are perfectly physically capable of working.

 

That's the irony I was pointing out.

 

I still cannot understand why you would continue to live in the conditions you describe. You said your salary

was $7.90/hr for 39 hrs/wk/ That is $16021./yr probably tax free.

 

I don't live in those conditions anymore and I haven't for 3 years. I make much more now and I'm quite comfortable. I was not comfortable with the wage I was making, and yes, I did pay taxes in the form of medicare and SS. I got a meager (<$100) return on my federal.

I could make it on that. I couldn't live well, but I could make it for a year or two.

 

And then...

[questor]

Examples of liberal logic:

It is OK for Clinton to have sex in the oval office because Larry Craig solicited sex in a toilet stall.

It is OK for Obama to increase the size of government because George Bush did it.

It is OK for William Jefferson to continue as congressman after receiving thousands in bribes because some Repubs are also dishonest.

It makes good sense for Obama to raise taxes while we are in a recession.

The fact that raising taxes stunts economic activity is irrelevant.

It is wrong to teach creationism in school, because there is absolute proof there was no creator.

It is wrong for children to have prayer in school because it ruins their minds. It is much better that they be indoctrinated into liberal philosophies such as intolerance to religion, higher taxes, political correctness, and more reliance on government.

It is wrong to criticise people for being criminal, too lazy to work, disruptive

in school, playing ugly music too loudly, not respecting others property,or being poor role models. This may hurt their feelings, after all who are you to have an opinion on what is good behavior?

It is necessary to elect a man who has had little or no experience in governance because he makes good speeches and is of a minority. These are the traits that will save our country. He will bring our country together because he said so and we must believe him. The fact that he is the most liberal member of the senate and his ideas are directly opposite millions of Americans has no relevance.

[Zythryn]

Examples of liberal logic:

...

It is wrong to teach creationism in school, because there is absolute proof there was no creator.

 

Questor, you have such an interesting idea of liberal logic.

Can you cite a single source of a 'liberal' stating this?

Is there a single case that was brought to court based on this?

Do you attribute this logic to anyone that you call 'liberal'?

 

I could repeat the same questions for most, if not all, of your other positions. However, I think it would serve the discussion best if we focused on one at a time.

[Thunderbird]

Examples of liberal logic:

It is OK for Clinton to have sex in the oval office because Larry Craig solicited sex in a toilet stall.

I do not know of anyone saying this but here is somthing that is true.

Meet the Press January 24, 1999, Sunday 9:00

 

Larry Craig

 

I’m going to speak out for the citizens of my state, who in the majority think that Bill Clinton is probably even a nasty, bad, naughty boy

Hypocrite ;)

[Thunderbird]

Examples of liberal logic:

It is OK for Clinton to have sex in the oval office because Larry Craig solicited sex in a toilet stall.

It is OK for Obama to increase the size of government because George Bush did it.

It is OK for William Jefferson to continue as congressman after receiving thousands in bribes because some Repubs are also dishonest.

It makes good sense for Obama to raise taxes while we are in a recession.

The fact that raising taxes stunts economic activity is irrelevant.

It is wrong to teach creationism in school, because there is absolute proof there was no creator.

It is wrong for children to have prayer in school because it ruins their minds. It is much better that they be indoctrinated into liberal philosophies such as intolerance to religion, higher taxes, political correctness, and more reliance on government.

It is wrong to criticise people for being criminal, too lazy to work, disruptive

in school, playing ugly music too loudly, not respecting others property,or being poor role models. This may hurt their feelings, after all who are you to have an opinion on what is good behavior?

It is necessary to elect a man who has had little or no experience in governance because he makes good speeches and is of a minority. These are the traits that will save our country. He will bring our country together because he said so and we must believe him. The fact that he is the most liberal member of the senate and his ideas are directly opposite millions of Americans has no relevance.

I have noticed and stated that the far right seems to always make illogical inflammatory augments against groups, individuals and policies without any basic logical thought or evidence. Thanks questor you and you're above rant is a perfect example of far right political logic.

[questor]

Z, do you think that the teaching of creationism, which in some form is believed by millions of American citizens, should be eliminated from all curricula? If so, why?

[questor]

T-bird, why would you consider these comments inflammatory? Do they insult someone? Do they hurt someone? Are they not true?

[Zythryn]

Z, do you think that the teaching of creationism, which in some form is believed by millions of American citizens, should be eliminated from all curricula? If so, why?

 

Certainly not. I think it ought to be taught in a comparative religions course.

I don't believe it should be taught in a science class as it doesn't meet the scientific method.

 

However, while the first part of your statement is not 100% accurate, the second part:

because there is absolute proof there was no creator.

is completely false.

 

I ask you once more, do you honestly believe that this is the average 'liberal' viewpoint?

[Moontanman]

Z, do you think that the teaching of creationism, which in some form is believed by millions of American citizens, should be eliminated from all curricula? If so, why?

 

Creationism is not science, belief does not make it either true or science. If they want to teach it philosophy or comparative religion fine. But not as science in a science class.

 

Eat excrement, a billion flies cannot be wrong:phones:

[Thunderbird]

T-bird, why would you consider these comments inflammatory? Do they insult someone? Do they hurt someone? Are they not true?

They hurt only you're credibility to make a sound argument for the candidates and party you support, considering the obvious fact that you are attributing false reasons and motives to people that do not agree with you. I have logical reasons for believing democrats govern better on average, and why at this time Obama/Biden are a better choice than McCain/Palin. My reasons are not based in a silly immature bipartisan tit for tat mentality.

[questor]

Creationism is not a science and should not be taught as science. It can be taught in elective classwork.

Z, which of my statements do you have issue with? You realize, I hope that discussions of this type are not science and are subjective, therefore links to ''scientific'' articles are not usually available.

[questor]

Then let's discuss your ideas about Dems being better at governing. What makes them better?

[Moontanman]

Creationism is not a science and should not be taught as science. It can be taught in elective classwork.

 

Personally, since it's religion, I don't think it should be taught as anything but religion in church. people should not try to depend on the governemnt to teach their children religion.

 

Z, which of my statements do you have issue with? You realize, I hope that discussions of this type are not science and are subjective, therefore links to ''scientific'' articles are not usually available.

 

I'll let Z speak for the rest on his behalf but I have problems with a lot of your "beliefs" or more accurately assumptions.

[Thunderbird]

Then let's discuss your ideas about Dems being better at governing. What makes them better?

Though out history man has attempted to dominate his fellow man. This has resulted in a class system of exclusion based on bigotry, hate ,religious intolerance, fear , aggression, covertness, war, ignorance, greed, poverty and torture. Republicans

 

The other side of that is diversity, education, incentives, tolerance. freedom of information, equality, inclusion and charity.

The late Ron Brown — former Chairman of the Democratic Party — put it best when he wrote, "The common thread of Democratic history, from Thomas Jefferson to Bill Clinton, has been an abiding faith in the judgment of hardworking American families, and a commitment to helping the excluded, the disenfranchised and the poor strengthen our nation by earning themselves a piece of the American Dream. We remember that this great land was sculpted by immigrants and slaves, their children and grandchildren."

[Zythryn]

Z, which of my statements do you have issue with?

 

Many, however you seem to have trouble discussing just one, so let's keep it at just one until we get somewhere;)

For your benifit, here is the question again:

 

However, while the first part of your statement is not 100% accurate, the second part:

because there is absolute proof there was no creator.

is completely false.

I ask you once more, do you honestly believe that this is the average 'liberal' viewpoint?

 

You realize, I hope that discussions of this type are not science and are subjective, therefore links to ''scientific'' articles are not usually available.

Very true, and I am not asking for a 'scientific' source, I am just asking why you think this is the 'liberal' position. Something must have given you this idea.

If you are in earnest, I am sure you will be happy to hear that your statement:

 

It is wrong to teach creationism in school, because there is absolute proof there was no creator.

does not represent the liberal viewpoint. I hope that helps you sleep easier:)