Schizophrenia in Children

[7DSUSYstrings]

Hi Folks,

 

This is more of a query than a discussion about something of which I'm an expert. This is a fascinating area of psychology, still I've only seen some rare instances in "Man Against Himself," by Karl Menninger, for example, where children can suffer from schizophrenia at an early age, or other psychological disorders brought about by extreme pressures from parents, per se. I'm looking into this for the sake of one child.

 

Einstein's first son ended up spending his life in a sanitorium because of this disoreder. It was one of his greatest fears that the genes of schizophrenia would be passed on to him from his first wife, Mileva. How soon can the symptoms show up? Most books say this usually begins in adolescence. Rarely it can happen earlier, so how can we truly know when a child is simply being a child with an imagination or they really are seeing invisible friends via halucination?

 

The child I'm concerned about drew something that I recognized as potentially being schizophrenic art. As of yet I've been unable to find any web sites that have examples of schizophrenic art (split faces, dismemberments, etc.) that I can use for comparison before I bring it to anyone's attention.

 

Can anyone here think of the right keywords for a search or know of any sites that have some of this art?

 

Dr. C.

[Thunderbird]

I’m no expert my folks both worked with schizophrenics in the mental health field collectively for over sixty years, and my father grandfather and brother have had episodes of paranoid delusions.

 

My father’s paranoia was at a time centered on me because of some of my artwork as a child. I TURNED OUT JUST FINE. Opps hit the cap locks. Anyway from what I know the delusional episode’s can manifest around 17-23.

[7DSUSYstrings]

The artwork issue was brought to my attention by an art instructor. A fellow student had made some artwork that totally rearranged faces and bothered the psych instructor. Makes me gald most of my own work centers around scientific concepts and such. I may check out some of the other threads in this area.

 

I watched a move once called "A Beautiful Mind." Russel Crowe played Dr. John Nash. I wonder if the movie gave a true impression of what halucinations truly are.

[Geneticist12]

I would suggest typing schizophrenia art into google images.

[7DSUSYstrings]

Geneticist12,

 

Thank you for the suggestion. I suppose "a day late and dollar short :)" because I already did that finally with success. I am convinced that this child was suffering from a schizophrenic psychosis at a very young age (7 and maybe even before) with visual halucinations. There is nothing I can do at this point to help because the boy is now a young adult. I only wish I'd seen this earlier. The likelihood of his being schizophrenic are high because his mother had been institutionalized with delusional behavior and I noticed it in her after the fact. It is possible they depend on one another's psychosis and don't even realize it.

Sometimes I find the only way to cope with schizo's is to play along and kid about my "invisible green friends," but I tend to think we both know mental illness is no joke. I'm a believer in God and destiny. I think sometimes we are stuck in certain places to learn certain things for some greater purpose we may not initially understand. Where I live, this county has the highest count of autism in the state. All I can really do is be kind and observe...

 

Dr. C.

[arkain101]

Thanks,

 

You've given me an idea to look into a diagnosis for the symptoms I had as a child. Maybe I will ask on here.

[7DSUSYstrings]

Fantastic, Arkain!

 

A good place to start reading is "Man Against Himself" by Carl Menninger. It contains at least one case of a chilhood psychological disorder that was caused by the pressures of the child's parents' divorce. Sometimes for parents to stay together for the sake of the kids isn't a bad idea...

 

Dr. C

[A23]

I never studied symbolics, but can we say the horse symbolizes (apart from the world map africa and maybe sweden), the view of the children wondering about their parents : they are big, so when small we only see their feet, a huge thinking head, and why do they stay together if they shout, do they shout at me, what should not be done in order not to be punished ? (Later it : even not be eaten by the parent(s), or other predators (most of the time attacking from behind) ?

[7DSUSYstrings]

A23,

 

Most interesting analogy. It is not surprising that a child being torn in half by his thoughts verses the demands of the parents and adult society might even be "drawn and quartered" if the parents are divorced and especially if they have moved on to new partners. The child no longer has the differential of demands between one set of deliberating minds, but of four. It also depends upon the age of the child at the time of the divorce. A child barely a year old will find a different set of social traumas than a child of seven or fourteen, per se.

The problem with the youngest scenario, is that with brain channels and neurons in the developmental stage, the division can be more deeply rooted than in an older child where the effects of two different households and methodologies are affecting the outer channels of an essentially developed brain system. Much would have to do with genetic probability as to whether schizoid circuits are formed. We might think of these as embolisms that block certain neurons or fistulas that join two others together. Thus the separation of logic from emotion.

What is interesting is the issue you raised about a child wanting to find out how to stay out of trouble. A basically paranoid child may easily find bargaining tools. In a divorce situation where the ex's hold deep resentments for each other, the child may find solace from "digging up the goods" on the other parent. The child would likely be wanting to please especially the custodial parent because he or she spends the most time there. If the child can't find anything to bargain with, he or she may invent bargaining tools.

 

What do you think about those idioms?

 

Dr. C.

[Alpine]

To be honest, I'm almost semi-schizophrenic :|

 

I'm not joking.I'm 15 by the way

[Ken]

To learn more about the disorder you should be looking at the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, known as the DSM. I believe the current edition is DSM-4R.

 

It is written for professionals, but at least you will see the basic diagnostic criteria rather than common misinformation.

[HydrogenBond]

When children are very young, it is not uncommon for them to have imaginary friends. Other children will personify their stuffed bear, treating them like it can talk and understand. Adults don't get all weeny, since this spontaneous active imagination from the unconscious is part of a child's development. It is only after a certain age that adults are conditioned to call the same thing something else. There is also fear of their child being given a social stigmatism, since by social science definition, this is now a mental health problem.

 

What would happen if when a child began to talk to his or her dolls, we get all freaked out and brought then in for treatment? We can turn something innocent into a problem. Say this natural dialog was still occurring so the child's instinct has to sneak around to play. Now the new problem we created, appears worse then ever. Say we are successful in controlling this behavior, so the small child has no opportunity to personify, since big mother is watching. Whatever natural benefit it might have created, is now taken away from the child. Since there is a loss, will it show up later as another new set of problems?

 

Science drops the ball when it comes to understanding the unconscious mind. The mind is one of those last frontiers, similar to the bottom of the ocean. We can sit on the surface and make bold claims about life on the ocean floor, or we can actually go there to collect data. Science seems to stay on the surface, with few scientists ever going to the bottom. Could this create theoretical problems? If you don't go to the bottom, how do we know that things from the bottom, are not at the bottom of theory; active imagination. That is why we have a dozen orientations. This gives psychology a multiple personality disorder. The active imagination needs to fill in where the hard data is lacking.

[Ken]

When children are very young, it is not uncommon for them to have imaginary friends. Other children will personify their stuffed bear, treating them like it can talk and understand. Adults don't get all weeny, since this spontaneous active imagination from the unconscious is part of a child's development. It is only after a certain age that adults are conditioned to call the same thing something else.

 

...snip...

 

Science drops the ball when it comes to understanding the unconscious mind. The mind is one of those last frontiers, similar to the bottom of the ocean. We can sit on the surface and make bold claims about life on the ocean floor, or we can actually go there to collect data.

 

 

By your first statement your last statement is "something else". Substitute imaginary mental process for imaginary friends and you are now a post-toddler psychotic.

 

:D :D :D

 

What is this subconscious of which you speak? How would I know one if it appeared before me? What's it's size, shape, color, odor, weight, or texture? If I point at three people and state that only two of them have this subconscious that you speak of, how would you determine if I was correct or not?

 

There is no "ball" for Science to drop. Science deals with the physical universe. It has no use for your metaphysical constructs.

 

B)