What's in Foaming Soap?

[Buffy]

For several years now, "Foaming Soap" has become quite a market segment. They usually come in cute little pump dispensers and the viscous liquid inside them goes through a magical pump that comes out as foam.

 

I like them, but didn't really think about it until I made a silly mistake the other day. There's a brand called "method" available here in the states that makes a variety--what I now know is three--soaps that come in pump dispensers in a variety of delightful scents (we like the Green Tea and Lavender ones). In addition to the foaming soap, I knew they had an alcohol sanitizer and a plain liquid soap.

 

The other day I was at the store and found that they had a big refill size that's "good for the environment" because you don't have to keep buying and throwing away that lasts-for-one-million-years plastic dispensers. Great Idea! They had one in our favored Green Tea scent, and having never seen that scent in the regular liquid soap, I bought it and proceeded to put it in the foaming dispenser.

 

Of course, as often happens to those of us who hate to read the manuals, after a few pumps, it started gurgling and barely putting out any soap.

 

It was only then that I read the very tiny print on the back of the refill that said "not for foaming dispensers."

 

Oh well, we've got *lots* of those pump thingies around, so I just transferred it, but am left with a couple more empty foaming thingies that have no place to go but the recycle bin.

 

That's what got me thinking: What the heck is it that *does* make "foaming soap" different?

 

In playing with the dispenser as I was transfering the liquid soap into a more appropriate pump bottle, I was fiddling with pumping some water through it and lo and behold, it started foaming for a bit!

 

Is it just a matter of adding water?

 

Not enough time this week to experiment with it more, so I thought I'd throw it out to our community of experts to see what y'all know...

 

I believe in getting into hot water; it keeps you clean., ;)

Buffy

[Essay]

Discharge device for a deformable container - Patent Review 4773570

The discharge device comprises a member having a plurality of liquid flow openings, an eductor tube, a liquid flow path from the eductor tube to the member with the plurality of liquid flow openings and a valve positioned in the liquid flow path. The valve is movable between a blocking position and a discharge position. The valve is operative in the blocking position to block the liquid flow path and is operative in the discharge position to unblock the liquid flow path. Further, a cap member having a discharge orifice which is larger than any of the plurality of openings is mounted over the member having the plurality of openings. The device produces a fine spray mist. However, the device can also be used to produce a foam by placing a screen over the orifice.

 

I don't know if foaming dispensers are like this, but I figured there was some mechanical turbulence generator (like an atomizer or mister) that activates the foaming agent included in the foaming soaps.

 

I don't know anything about the foaming agents; but from what I can tell by googling, it's just the variety of soap used that foams more than regular soaps (especially when put through a mister). I don't see any extra chemicals listed in the ingredients that function only to generate foam.

 

I don't know why regular soap wouldn't work; maybe it is too thick.

As to the foaming water, maybe some of the original foaming soap was still in the "mister" and was washed out by the water; or maybe just thinner regular soap will work in a foam dispenser.

 

I don't use these products, but does the foaming soap seem thinner?

As you suggest....

Maybe try a test and dilute some regular soap to see it'll work in a foamer without clogging.

Let us know....

 

~ ;)

[Buffy]

I don't know anything about the foaming agents; but from what I can tell by googling, it's just the variety of soap used that foams more than regular soaps (especially when put through a mister). I don't see any extra chemicals listed in the ingredients that function only to generate foam.

That's what I've been assuming. Anyone know about these "foaming agents?"

I don't know why regular soap wouldn't work; maybe it is too thick.

That's definitely a qualitative difference I've noticed in sticking my finger in the bottle to check. The foaming soap is very watery--not quite as watery as the alcohol sanitizer stuff--whereas the liquid soap is very viscous, like motor oil.

As to the foaming water, maybe some of the original foaming soap was still in the "mister" and was washed out by the water

It had been well-displaced by the liquid soap, with much of the latter pumped through it in hopes that it would prime itself (my kid loves to push buttons.... ;) )

 

So we'll get to some experimentation soon but between work, school and a quick trip to the mountains it will be a week or so before we get our hands, um, clean.... :(

 

Thanks for the info Essay!

 

I have the consolation of having added nothing to my private fortune during my public service, and of retiring with hands clean as they are empty, :(

Buffy

[Essay]

Sodium Laurel Sulfate (SLS and SLES)

from:http://www.earthmamaangelbaby....

Potentially, SLS is one of the most harmful ingredients in personal care products. SLS is used in testing labs as the standard ingredient to irritate skin. Industrial uses of SLS include garage floor cleaners, engine degreasers, and car wash soaps not to mention over 90% of all personal care soap shampoos. SLS is a surfactant used in shampoos, toothpastes and liquid soaps (including "all natural" products, as it comes from a natural source). Basically it is a foaming and cleaning agent. Its controversy stems from the belief by some that it is highly toxic, highly irritating and carcinogenic.

...

Other research has shown that SLS and SLES may cause potentially carcinogenic nitrates and dioxins to form in shampoos and cleansers by reacting with commonly used ingredients found in many products. Large amounts of nitrates may enter the blood system from just one shampooing. SLES is the alcohol form (ethoxylated) of SLS. It is slightly less irritating but may cause more drying. They are used in personal-care products because they are cheap. A small amount generates a large amount of foam, and when salt is added it thickens to give the illusion of being thick and concentrated.

 

Earthmama is referring to the acute exposure MSDS listing, and has a lot of equivocating in the text, but....

I've been using SLS to make my own shampoo for over 10 years now and haven't noticed any problems.

 

===

 

The foamy soap that my wife uses has Sodium C-14-16 Olefin Sulfonate & Lauramide DEA.

 

Lauramide DEA - Make your own cosmetics, hair and skin care products - The Personal Formulator

Lauric acid diethenolamine condensate (Lauramide DEA)

INCI: Lauramide DEA

Foam booster and emulsion stabilizer. Helps to increase the viscosity in surfactant systems. Diethanolamides are excellent foam boosters, stabilizers and viscosity builders/modifiers for shampoos, hand soaps and bath products. It is typically used at 1-10%

...

&

 

http://www.chemistrystore.com/sodium_olefin_sulfonate.pdf

Sodium C-14-16 Olefin Sulfonate

Synonyms: Sulfonic acids, C14-16-alkane hydroxy and C14-16-alkene, sodium salts; Sodium Tetradecenesulfonate; Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate

MSDS:

LD50-LC50 Mixture: NONE SPECIFIED BY MANUFACTURER. Route Of Entry - Inhalation: YES. Route Of Entry - Skin: YES. Route Of Entry - Ingestion: YES, NOT A PRIMARY ENTRY ROUTE. EYE:NOT A PRIMARY ENTRY ROUTE. CHRONIC:NO EVIDENCE OF ADVERSE EFFECTS.

FROM AVAILABLE INFORMATION. Carcinogenicity - NTP: NO Carcinogenicity - IARC: NO Carcinogenicity - OSHA: NO Explanation Carcinogenicity: NOT RELEVANT.

 

SLS or the Laurimide is a 12 Carbon soap. In general the lower number of carbon atoms, the more liquid/less solid it will be. I suspect the higher carbon soaps foam more easily or perhaps more thickly, but I think that soap is the only foaming agent in the product. It must be the "mister" that does the foaming work.

...and I suspect they just water it down so that it'll work in the foam dispensers.

 

Enjoy!

~ ;)

[freeztar]

From the chatter over here, it seems that adding water will do the trick. Just take the liquid soap and mix with water (the link gives anything from 1:1 to 1:12 soap to water ratios).

 

Here's another site for making it on the cheap. It has some math as well. :confused: