Is this how a Super Nova works?

[JoeRoccoCassara]

I need to describe the process of a Super Nova for my science class.

 

When a star reaches the end of it’s life, it has no fuel to burn, ergo, it has no more matter to keep it held together, and so gravity pulls it down, so it collapses, when it collapses it’s core undergoes fusion, fusion is the process in which sub-atomic particles are added to atoms, transmuting them into heavier elements, this process releases only a little bit of the energy inside the atoms that were transmuted, thus not all the energy that could possibly be extracted was extracted from the collapse, but there still is a trillion trillion trillion trillion giga tons of TNT released, this explosion blows the surface of the star into stardust, or interstellar gasses, but the heavier elements generated from fusion, during the collapse, remain. Depending on the size of of the star, this heavy center is either a White Dwarf star (Type 1 Supernova), a Neutron star (type 2) or a black hole (type 3)

 

 

Is all this correct, and how does the star expend all of it's fuel in the first place, is it constantly undergoing fusion, or fission?

[Moontanman]

Yes a star constantly undergoes fusion, are you talking about a type2 Super Nova? That's what it sounds like you are talking about. Try this link...

 

 

Type II supernova - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[JoeRoccoCassara]

Yes a star constantly undergoes fusion, are you talking about a type2 Super Nova? That's what it sounds like you are talking about. Try this link...

 

 

Type II supernova - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

So it's energy from fusion that keeps the star from collapsing?

 

How exactly does a higher atomic number mean that it generates less energy when given another particle?

 

In other words why does fusion produce energy?

[Moontanman]

So it's energy from fusion that keeps the star from collapsing?

 

How exactly does a higher atomic number mean that it generates less energy when given another particle?

 

In other words why does fusion produce energy?

 

Yes energy from fusion is what keeps a star from collapsing, fusion produces energy because when two light atoms are fused together the result weighs less than the original two did. But once you get to iron this is no longer true, elements more massive than iron take energy to fuse and so do not contribute to the energy that keeps a star from collapsing. Read the link I provided about type 2 super nova and this one

 

Nuclear fusion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Pluto]

G'day from the land of ozzzzzzz

 

Read this

 

Supernova Cosmology Project

Supernova Cosmology Project

 

There are various theories as to what causes a supernova.

 

This is one: Just thinking aloud for now.

 

Some think that the existing core is responsible. Over billions of years it loses its mass and its ability to hold onto the solar envelope allowing the solar envelope to expand and also the control of the temp within the solar envelope.

 

Over billions of years Elements such as Iron build up close to the inner core, the inner core reaches a stage of out of control heat release causing a photodisintergration of Fe and related atoms to He than to H than to Neutrons, that find their home in the centre core, leaving the so called Neutron Star core.This chain reaction creates a sudden rush of matter to the core creating a bounce that gives energy to the supernova exploding the solar envelope. I would imagine that The He and H produced would form fusion reactions that would add to the supernova.

 

I have just been given a number of papers to read up on supernova. Darn does it ever end?

arXiv

Supernova cosmology 2007 to 2008

 

I think I will take up tennis.

[Pluto]

G'day

 

This link is interesting to read.

 

[0804.4350] Physics of Supernovae: theory, observations, unresolved problems

Physics of Supernovae: theory, observations, unresolved problems

 

Authors: D. K. Nadyozhin

(Submitted on 28 Apr 2008)

 

Abstract: The main observational properties and resulting classification of supernovae (SNe) are briefly reviewed. Then we discuss the progress in modeling of two basic types of SNe - the thermonuclear and core-collapse ones, with special emphasis being placed on difficulties relating to a consistent description of thermonuclear flame propagation and the detachment of supernova envelope from the collapsing core (a nascent neutron star). The properties of the neutrino flux expected from the corecollapse SNe, and the lessons of SN1987A, exploded in the Large Magellanic Cloud, are considered as well.

[maddog]

I need to describe the process of a Super Nova for my science class.

 

When a star reaches the end of it’s life, it has no fuel to burn, ergo, it has no more matter to keep it held together, and so gravity pulls it down, so it collapses, when it collapses it’s core undergoes fusion, fusion is the process in which sub-atomic particles are added to atoms, transmuting them into heavier elements, this process releases only a little bit of the energy inside the atoms that were transmuted, thus not all the energy that could possibly be extracted was extracted from the collapse, but there still is a trillion trillion trillion trillion giga tons of TNT released, this explosion blows the surface of the star into stardust, or interstellar gasses, but the heavier elements generated from fusion, during the collapse, remain. Depending on the size of of the star, this heavy center is either a White Dwarf star (Type 1 Supernova), a Neutron star (type 2) or a black hole (type 3)

 

 

Is all this correct, and how does the star expend all of it's fuel in the first place, is it constantly undergoing fusion, or fission?

Mostly correct though grossly oversimplified, you are on the right track.

 

First thing all stars are thermonuclear engines turning lighter elements into

heavier ones (a stellar alchemist if you will). A young star containing mostly

hydrogen near the core will convert all forms of hydrogen (incl dueterium,

trium) into Helium. This is the normal life of most stars on the main sequence

on the HR (Hertzsprung-Russell) diagram.

 

After a time near the core, the percentage of hydrogen to helium is exhausted.

It is always the percentage at the core that is important. When this

happens, the force of gravity overcomes the outward core pressure by

nuclear fusion. The star will collapse a bit to a point at which the internal

core pressure can ignite fusion of helium into higher products (Boron,

Carbon (6), Oxygen (8)). This then creates a great expansion from the

new energy release and the outer shell and surface of the star expands

greatly. This begins the Red Giant phase of the life of a star.

 

Again later in its life, helium is depleted causing another round of collapse

to cause the burning of Carbon into other products upto Silicon (16). This

next is much shorter than the last. When all the remaining Carbon (12) is

exhausted and depending on initial mass of the star will determine what

happens next.

 

The star will then collaps and if the star during its life had less than 2.1 Solar masses the star will

explode as Nova which is an explosion of the outer shell blown off and core becomes a White

Dwarf. If the star is between 2.1 and about 3 solar masses the star explodes as a Supernova

which exlpodes most of the outer shell while the core collapses down to become a Neutron star.

If more than 3 solar masses then the star is still a Supernova while the core becomes a Black

Hole. Or so the theory goes.

 

This is the conventional theory of star evolution taught in Astronomy and

Astrophysics at the college level. I apologize if this is more detail than you

need for your science class.

 

The point why I went into all this detail (which is what I felt you had glossed

over), is that it is the energy release in the thermonuclear reaction from

Silicon to Iron that produces the Nova or Supernova explosion. Why Iron ?

Because all thermonuclear reaction below Iron are Exothermic while those

above are Endothermic. This means that more energy is released from such

a reaction that it took to make. This is the opposite for an endothermic

reaction. It is this reason that the normal life of stars only make the

elements upto and including Iron. The rest of the elements are created

in the explosion of a Supernova as it takes that much energy to overcome

the strong force enough to fuse elements higher than Iron.

 

I hope you get an A. Good Luck. :)

 

maddog

[maddog]

Depending on the size of of the star, this heavy center is either a White Dwarf star (Type 1 Supernova), a Neutron star (type 2) or a black hole (type 3)

Actually the type of Supernoava (Type 1, 1a, 2) refer to either being a

Pop I or Pop II star or a specific type (1a) than specific determine exceedingly

large distance due their creation.

 

Pop I stars are initial life stars (only original elements from the birth of the

big bang).

 

Pop II stars were created from the medium of previous Supernovae.

 

Supernova type 1a is a Supernova of a star that had a stellar companion

where it was able to accrete material from to arrive very near the 3 stellar

mass limit when it blew up. Mass determines luminosity. Thus we can

measure these stars when viewed in other galaxies of being a certain known

distance.

 

maddog

[Pluto]

G'day maddog

 

What you say maybe correct.

 

To assume that the BBT is correct and than proceed to make it fit does not seem logical.

 

I try to find the explanation.

 

Condensates in the Cosmos: Quantum Stabilization of the Collapse of Relativistic

Condensates in the Cosmos: Quantum Stabilization of the Collapse of Relativistic Degenerate Stars to Black Holes

Silverman,*Mark*P.

AA(Department of Physics, Trinity College)

Foundations of Physics, Volume 37, Issue 4-5, pp. 632-669

May-07

 

According to prevailing theory, relativistic degenerate stars with masses beyond the Chandrasekhar and Oppenheimer–Volkoff (OV) limits cannot achieve hydrostatic equilibrium through either electron or neutron degeneracy pressure and must collapse to form stellar black holes. In such end states, all matter and energy within the Schwarzschild horizon descend into a central singularity. Avoidance of this fate is a hoped-for outcome of the quantization of gravity, an as-yet incomplete undertaking. Recent studies, however, suggest the possibility that known quantum processes may intervene to arrest complete collapse, thereby leading to equilibrium states of macroscopic size and finite density. I describe here one such process which entails pairing (or other even-numbered association) of neutrons (or constituent quarks in the event of nucleon disruption) to form a condensate of composite bosons in equilibrium with a core of degenerate fermions. This process is analogous to, but not identical with, the formation of hadron Cooper pairs that give rise to neutron superfluidity and proton superconductivity in neutron stars. Fermion condensation to composite bosons in a star otherwise destined to collapse to a black hole facilitates hydrostatic equilibrium in at least two ways: (1) removal of fermions results in a decrease in the Fermi level which stiffens the dependence of degeneracy pressure on fermion density, and (2) phase separation into a fermionic core surrounded by a self-gravitating condensate diminishes the weight which must be balanced by fermion degeneracy pressure. The outcome is neither a black hole nor a neutron star, but a novel end state, a “fermicon star,” with unusual physical properties.

 

To support this I can post many more links from scientists around the world.

 

 

If normal matter can be transformed into degenerate matter such as Neutron and quark matter than the transformation back to normal matter would be based on memory.

 

Knowing this, we can apply this to starformation and and the synthesis of the basic elements.

[maddog]

What you say maybe correct.

??? Maybe ???

I am not sure what you are referring to what I said "maybe correct".

 

To assume that the BBT is correct and than proceed to make it fit does not seem logical.

I gather from this comment you have some mission to prove "BBT" wrong

or in some way invalid. I find that curious yet irrelevant to this discussion

of what constitutes this thread topic - "How Supernovae work".

Curious... :):)

 

I try to find the explanation.

Condensates in the Cosmos: Quantum Stabilization of the Collapse of Relativistic

Condensates in the Cosmos: Quantum Stabilization of the Collapse of Relativistic Degenerate Stars to Black Holes Silverman,*Mark*P.

AA(Department of Physics, Trinity College)

Foundations of Physics, Volume 37, Issue 4-5, pp. 632-669 May-07

This reference seems somewhat of a nonsequeter and not inline with all

other posts (other than the mention of the Chandrasekar Limit).

Yes, the Chandrasekar Limit of 2.1 solar masses for Nuetron Stars and

3 solar masses for Black Holes has been the value he determined then

back in 1930s. The rest of the paper (at least from the abstract) is on

the particular solution processes toward a black hole formation.

 

What that has to do with this thread nor how this invalidates "BBT" nor

how my "logic is flawed" nor how I even made an "assumption" really does

escape me. I am good at proofs. I have often been left by the professor

with their statement either in class or in the book "proof left to the reader".

 

Maybe a bit more on how I made such a flawed process of logic. Only don't

waste the time of the people who have posted here. They're not interested.

Send me a message and maybe we could start there. Otherwise I feel you

are wasting the time on this forum.

 

If normal matter can be transformed into degenerate matter such as Neutron and quark matter than the transformation back to normal matter would be based on memory.

Knowing this, we can apply this to starformation and and the synthesis of the basic elements.

This statement I read many time and still not comprehending. Your are

saying that "memory" is based upon degenerate matter ?

 

The notion of degenerate matter like a Nuetron star is where all the particles

other particles typically found in a start (protons, electron) have condensed

into a simpler state of just neutrons. Yes the same thing can be done down

to quarks I suppose though this is still theory and not validated as this

would require energies near the GUT symmetry breaking of 10e19 GeV.

This is many orders of magnitude higher than possible with LHC.

 

maddog

[Pluto]

G'day Maddog

 

You said

 

Pop I stars are initial life stars (only original elements from the birth of the

big bang).

 

Making this stament implies that the big Bang is a fact and that no other options are available.

 

I understand your logic and it is in line with mainstream.

 

You read my post out of context.

[Moontanman]

Come on guys, I have a problem with what is being done to this thread, first of all it's not about the BB, secondly can you give me an example of a population 1 star? I can it's about one AU away, the first stars were population 2 stars although some are saying now that the very first stars should be called population 3 stars.....

 

 

Metallicity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Pluto]

G'day from the land of ozzzzzzz

 

The question is:

 

Is there first stars or are they just stages or phases in star formation.

 

The following links are for information.

 

Category:Star types - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

Lives and deaths of stars

 

Lives and Deaths of Stars

 

Star Classification

Star Classification - Zoom Astronomy

 

TYPES OF STAR: entries in the Internet Encyclopedia of Science

 

Stars & Their Energy Sources

Types of Stars

 

Moontanman you are right.

[Pluto]

G'day from the land of ozzz

 

When I post these links, I'm sharing information

 

[0711.4815] Aspherical Properties of Hydrodynamics and Nucleosynthesis in Jet-induced Supernovae

Aspherical Properties of Hydrodynamics and Nucleosynthesis in Jet-induced Supernovae

 

Authors: Nozomu Tominaga

(Submitted on 29 Nov 2007 (v1), last revised 26 Aug 2008 (this version, v2))

 

Abstract: Jet-induced supernovae (SNe) have been suggested to occur in gamma-ray bursts (GRBs) and highly-energetic SNe (hypernovae). I investigate hydrodynamical and nucleosynthetic properties of the jet-induced explosion of a population III $40_odot$ star with a two-dimensional special relativistic hydrodynamical code. The abundance distribution after the explosion and the angular dependence of the yield are obtained for the models with high and low energy deposition rates $dot{E}_{rm dep}=120times10^{51} {rm ergs s^{-1}}$ and $1.5times10^{51} {rm ergs s^{-1}}$. The ejection of Fe-peak products and the fallback of unprocessed materials in the jet-induced SNe account for the abundance patterns of the extremely metal-poor (EMP) stars. It is also found that the peculiar abundance pattern of a Si-deficient metal-poor star HE 1424--0241 is reproduced by the angle-delimited yield for $theta=30^circ-35^circ$ of the model with $dot{E}_{rm dep}=120times10^{51} {rm ergs s^{-1}}$. Furthermore, I compare the yield of the jet-induced explosion with that of the spherical explosion and confirm the ejection and fallback in the jet-induced explosion is almost equivalent to the "mixing-fallback" in spherical explosions. In contrast to the spherical models, however, the high-entropy environment is realized in the jet-induced explosion and thus [(Sc, Ti, V, Cr, Co, Zn)/Fe] are enhanced. The enhancements of [sc/Fe] and [Ti/Fe] improve agreements with the abundance patterns of the EMP stars.

 

 

GRB 020813:

Cosmic Forensics Confirms Gamma-ray Burst/Supernova Connection

Chandra :: Photo Album :: GRB 020813 :: 24 Mar 03

 

An analysis of the Chandra data showed that the ions were moving away from the site of the gamma-ray burst at a tenth the speed of light, probably as part of a shell of matter ejected in the supernova explosion. The line features were observed to be sharply peaked, indicating that they were coming from a narrow region of the expanding shell. This implies that only a small fraction of the shell was illuminated by the gamma-ray burst, as would be expected if the burst was beamed into a narrow cone. The observed duration of the afterglow suggests a delay of about 60 days between the supernova and the gamma ray burst.

[maddog]

Come on guys, I have a problem with what is being done to this thread, first of all it's not about the BB

I agree with your point of view actually. Any such reference does get off base of this thread.

 

secondly can you give me an example of a population 1 star? I can it's about one AU away, the first stars were population 2 stars although some are saying now that the very first stars should be called population 3 stars.....

It has been a while since my astrophysics class. When I took this course, there were only Pop I, Pop II stars.

 

Pop I = stars with only H, He (other light elements < Carbon)

(mostly found only in halos of galaxies)

Pop II = stars with more heavier elements with H, He

(often found in disk of galaxies)

 

If that notion has changed, I am not aware of it.

 

[/url]Metallicity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Metallicity is a new term to me. I will read up on this.

 

maddog

[Moontanman]

Pop I = stars with only H, He (other light elements < Carbon)

(mostly found only in halos of galaxies)

Pop II = stars with more heavier elements with H, He

(often found in disk of galaxies)

 

If that notion has changed, I am not aware of it.

 

 

Metallicity is a new term to me. I will read up on this.

 

maddog

 

It's a common misconception that Pop I stars were first and Pop II stars were last but the Pop II stars were first and Pop I stars were last. New thought seems to point out there needed to be Pop III stars (figuring from the same premise) Pop III stars would have been the very first Stars, Pop II would have been what we see as the oldest stars now and Pop I stars are the youngest with the highest concentration of metals.

[Pluto]

G'day from the land of ozzzzzz

 

 

The stages or phases are an evolution of events that are occuring now and can be explained by observations.

 

When you think about it there is no death or birth just a cycle of events.