Oh no we cant progress?

[inside the sun]

People will always resist change, not all, but some, but you cannot stop progression, people will continue to learn, and devolp, even if its a minority, one man with a machine gun can take on 100's with sticks. So why do we fear that we will go back to the primitive? I have myself have feared it, when certain things point to it, but after making this quote that i used to open this, i realized, i don't think it would work. We could wipe out a big portion of the planet with weapons of mass destruction, or use up all our resources, but, we worry to much, this is human nature too. I'm going to stop before i get off topic.

[bumab]

People will always resist change, not all, but some, but you cannot stop progression, people will continue to learn, and devolp, even if its a minority, one man with a machine gun can take on 100's with sticks.

 

You can't lose knowledge, that's why we will never fall back "into the primitive." Often I wish all handguns would be thrown into the ocean, for example. But the knowledge of how to build them, the science that made them possible, and the drive to have them (for some reason) will continue on. It's like Pandora's box- once it's out there, it's out there.

[WildRose1010]

Losing knowledge is possible for the mere fact that the discovery could be kept a secret. If enough people died, and they had the secret knowledge, then we would lose it. You should check out the Society Distroyed... thread, in Social Science. That thread relates to this one a great deal. :)

[Merek]

You can't lose knowledge...

 

then what happened that made the dark ages come around???

[automatic existence]

Progress is an illusion, only change exist.

 

The only thing that has ever changed is our tools and means, other than that; Nada. We`re still monkeys, thats how little progress there has been. But you could call evolution progress, but that takes so long time and is so out of our control that i don´t think it counts. Take a step back, compare and you will see.

[cwes99_03]

I think someone needs to read Canticle for Liebowitz.

You can't lose knowledge, that's why we will never fall back "into the primitive." Often I wish all handguns would be thrown into the ocean, for example. But the knowledge of how to build them, the science that made them possible, and the drive to have them (for some reason) will continue on. It's like Pandora's box- once it's out there, it's out there.

[Tormod]

You can't lose knowledge,

 

Hey bumab, old pal.

 

You sure about this? Then how come the construction of the pyramids remain a mystery today (Granted, we have a lot of theories but nothing definite). ?

[infamous]

You can't lose knowledge, that's why we will never fall back "into the primitive." Often I wish all handguns would be thrown into the ocean, for example. But the knowledge of how to build them, the science that made them possible, and the drive to have them (for some reason) will continue on. It's like Pandora's box- once it's out there, it's out there.

Hey buddy, good to see you participating here again, it's been a while since we have heard from you, welcome back................................

[Edge]

Seems like an anti-conservative thread...

[inside the sun]

Edge

Seems like an anti-conservative thread...

I dont think this is about politics? Except i did have a history teacher once tell me everything is politics...But it was not intended to be political, maybe the conservative mindset is what brought forth this question, but i don't think it was an anti-conservative thread...seeing how it is merely a question, that is what philosphy is, questions, theories, ideas...

[sergey500]

Going back? De-evolve? Impossible, we probably will grow so lazy we will kill each other in our greed but never shall going back. Knowledge is always alive in people who want it, just like the thought of god, wether he exists or not, the point being of his followers existing creates a god of its own.

 

I am quite sure its not long before humans reach their satuartion point in evoultion, but mostly because of technolgoy. We don't want to evolve, rather we don't have the time to evolve, so we setup the enviroment to our benefits and create ever more creative technologies to suit our lazy needs. Evolution is not even necessery anymore. We don't need to adopt to our enviroments physicly when we can adopt the enviroment to our needs.

[sergey500]

Hey bumab, old pal.

 

You sure about this? Then how come the construction of the pyramids remain a mystery today (Granted, we have a lot of theories but nothing definite). ?

I think he meant within a single being. Not civilazations. Many people can change knowledge and turn legends to myths within one generation, not all knowledge is passed down. Nor will it ever be, since human are so greedy, so some choose not pass down their knowledge. Exactly the reason why humans are so pityful, too much greed. Moving back fro on their various concerns and intrests they choose their own stories to pass down, not what they would think is for the best. But of course this is not true for everyone, if it was, science wouldn't be what it is today.

[jkellmd]

Progress is an illusion...

 

This overhashed postmodern view tires any real thinking person. Other than a hymn to superficiality, what does it offer? Cultural revolution and scientific advancement is happening so rapidly that to ignore it calls ito question one's power of observation. If you want to see something by "stepping back," please notice the rapic acceleration of evolutionary time. Evolution of homo sapiens occured in the last 200K years. Entry into space, the invention of computers and television, discovery of DNA, and the advent of antibiotics occured within my parents' lifetimes. Cracking the genome, the age of the internet, gene therapy, and the reach to the edge of the solar system occured within mine (32 years). To claim that we are all monkeys is to deny every great human thinker, every great human thought, every literary work (even the postmodernist tripe that inspired the quoted comment)- and indeed, every significant event since primates picked up rocks. Grow beyond nihilism.

[automatic existence]

Progress is an illusion...

 

This overhashed postmodern view tires any real thinking person. Other than a hymn to superficiality, what does it offer? Cultural revolution and scientific advancement is happening so rapidly that to ignore it calls ito question one's power of observation. If you want to see something by "stepping back," please notice the rapic acceleration of evolutionary time. Evolution of homo sapiens occured in the last 200K years. Entry into space, the invention of computers and television, discovery of DNA, and the advent of antibiotics occured within my parents' lifetimes. Cracking the genome, the age of the internet, gene therapy, and the reach to the edge of the solar system occured within mine (32 years). To claim that we are all monkeys is to deny every great human thinker, every great human thought, every literary work (even the postmodernist tripe that inspired the quoted comment)- and indeed, every significant event since primates picked up rocks. Grow beyond nihilism.

 

I think you hit the nail right on the head here. There isn’t much I dislike more than someone who just goes on about “reality as a social construction”, deconstruction and the horrible negations. I truly hate postmodernists, in the purest form at least. In itself its okay, but not when it’s based on air. Nihilism is also just a big misconception. So hopefully people try something, learn and move on. But you are equally as wrong as those you oppose. To me you seem a little hung up in scientism. You do not understand what the basis of science is, which you don’t need to in order to do it. (Based on what you said in your post). This is dangerous and what I would call the scientific paradigm. When, as in your post, sciences seems to be a goal in itself. Not a means to a bigger end, it’s as stupid as anything. Then again someone might say that it’s for the improvement of the human race. All I can say then is that you are guilty of the following: a) Ignorance of what a human is and how “it” works B) Specism and c) Lack of understanding or unwillingness to understand the reality of the universe.

 

So you are correct, but missing a big part of the puzzle. The meta-understanding of science. This might seem like blasphemy on this forum, but that is only because most members and people in general are lacking any understanding of anything but there respective fields. That is to say, what can a mathematician say about morals? Therefore he listens to the majority’s voice and gets the wrong idea of most other fields than his own. This is almost unavoidable. My idea is that without a generalist’s point of view with a touch of holism you should forget about topics that’s to far away from your specialty. Now I’m sure I’ll get a lot of aggressive answers, some might be fair, most isn’t. But most people are not made for anything besides to carry through their biological nature which does not see any reason to search for truth, but only what’s useful.

 

Humanity by definition is very, very misunderstood. We have idolized ourselves so far from the truth that I doubt we will ever get down from our high horses and face the ugly reality. So the truth is that to most people their conceptions of reality is relative to the factual reality. So therefore, most peoples understanding of the world is, in fact, nothing but a social construction. It seems so few people are even managing to break away from the most obvious misconceptions, but still manage to complain about others, that its just laughable that its just laughable to say that we “move forward” in any way what so ever. The only thing that ever changes is our surroundings and our tools. When the error lies in ourselves changing everything around us doesn’t get us anywhere. So you see, progress IS an illusion, but not weakly based on a postmodernist world view.

 

(But anyway, I see how you could get the impression of me that you got by only reading my previous post in this thread.)

[jkellmd]

 

I think you hit the nail right on the head here. There isn’t much I dislike more than someone who just goes on about “reality as a social construction”, deconstruction and the horrible negations. I truly hate postmodernists, in the purest form at least. In itself its okay, but not when it’s based on air. Nihilism is also just a big misconception. So hopefully people try something, learn and move on. But you are equally as wrong as those you oppose. To me you seem a little hung up in scientism. You do not understand what the basis of science is, which you don’t need to in order to do it. (Based on what you said in your post). This is dangerous and what I would call the scientific paradigm. When, as in your post, sciences seems to be a goal in itself. Not a means to a bigger end, it’s as stupid as anything. Then again someone might say that it’s for the improvement of the human race. All I can say then is that you are guilty of the following: a) Ignorance of what a human is and how “it” works B) Specism and c) Lack of understanding or unwillingness to understand the reality of the universe.

 

So you are correct, but missing a big part of the puzzle. The meta-understanding of science. This might seem like blasphemy on this forum, but that is only because most members and people in general are lacking any understanding of anything but there respective fields. That is to say, what can a mathematician say about morals? Therefore he listens to the majority’s voice and gets the wrong idea of most other fields than his own. This is almost unavoidable. My idea is that without a generalist’s point of view with a touch of holism you should forget about topics that’s to far away from your specialty. Now I’m sure I’ll get a lot of aggressive answers, some might be fair, most isn’t. But most people are not made for anything besides to carry through their biological nature which does not see any reason to search for truth, but only what’s useful.

 

Humanity by definition is very, very misunderstood. We have idolized ourselves so far from the truth that I doubt we will ever get down from our high horses and face the ugly reality. So the truth is that to most people their conceptions of reality is relative to the factual reality. So therefore, most peoples understanding of the world is, in fact, nothing but a social construction. It seems so few people are even managing to break away from the most obvious misconceptions, but still manage to complain about others, that its just laughable that its just laughable to say that we “move forward” in any way what so ever. The only thing that ever changes is our surroundings and our tools. When the error lies in ourselves changing everything around us doesn’t get us anywhere. So you see, progress IS an illusion, but not weakly based on a postmodernist world view.

 

(But anyway, I see how you could get the impression of me that you got by only reading my previous post in this thread.)

 

I apologise. Meta-understanding of science is indeed impossible, and a fool's errand. But all too often, any who set out to find their share of truth are derailed by compelling philosophical denials that any real truths exist, or that all opinions are to be equally valued. Daunted by the implications, most seek rather to discover small items of usefullness, as far as their capabilities will allow. Worse yet, many are compelled to keep any real truths to themselves, to be wasted after a single lifetime or drowned by the cataract of useless ideas (e.g. post-modernism) which lead nowhere. I can stipulate your argument about widespread human preconceptions, as well as their laughability; however, after laughing, what is the next step? A search within.

Also, I did not mean to put science forward as an end, but rather as the chosen means of most who use this site (to which I am new). My own myopic view of the workings of the universe fall quite short of any real understanding, beyond the postulates of my own field (which are ever-changing). Given the sheer mass of knowledge in medicine alone, no real equivalent of the seventeenth century savants is ever likely to reappear with a likely attempt to unify knowledge (but wouldn't it be nice).

When lost, exploration is the only option most people consider. I recognise the usefulness of calling into question our answers, the means by which we answer them, and the questions themselves. Still, when done questioning, investigation and activism are the obvious choices of action (if action is decided upon).

I definately did not mean to place humanity on any pedestal, but until we decode the languages of dolphins and elephants, we're stuck protecting and thinking for all other forms of life (and yes, I realize how concieted that sounds). Without understanding them, we (and they) have little hope of avoiding the nearly-assured disasters we have brought into being. Search for your enlightenment with diligence.

[jkellmd]

 

I think you hit the nail right on the head here. There isn’t much I dislike more than someone who just goes on about “reality as a social construction”, deconstruction and the horrible negations. I truly hate postmodernists, in the purest form at least. In itself its okay, but not when it’s based on air. Nihilism is also just a big misconception. So hopefully people try something, learn and move on. But you are equally as wrong as those you oppose. To me you seem a little hung up in scientism. You do not understand what the basis of science is, which you don’t need to in order to do it. (Based on what you said in your post). This is dangerous and what I would call the scientific paradigm. When, as in your post, sciences seems to be a goal in itself. Not a means to a bigger end, it’s as stupid as anything. Then again someone might say that it’s for the improvement of the human race. All I can say then is that you are guilty of the following: a) Ignorance of what a human is and how “it” works B) Specism and c) Lack of understanding or unwillingness to understand the reality of the universe.

 

So you are correct, but missing a big part of the puzzle. The meta-understanding of science. This might seem like blasphemy on this forum, but that is only because most members and people in general are lacking any understanding of anything but there respective fields. That is to say, what can a mathematician say about morals? Therefore he listens to the majority’s voice and gets the wrong idea of most other fields than his own. This is almost unavoidable. My idea is that without a generalist’s point of view with a touch of holism you should forget about topics that’s to far away from your specialty. Now I’m sure I’ll get a lot of aggressive answers, some might be fair, most isn’t. But most people are not made for anything besides to carry through their biological nature which does not see any reason to search for truth, but only what’s useful.

 

Humanity by definition is very, very misunderstood. We have idolized ourselves so far from the truth that I doubt we will ever get down from our high horses and face the ugly reality. So the truth is that to most people their conceptions of reality is relative to the factual reality. So therefore, most peoples understanding of the world is, in fact, nothing but a social construction. It seems so few people are even managing to break away from the most obvious misconceptions, but still manage to complain about others, that its just laughable that its just laughable to say that we “move forward” in any way what so ever. The only thing that ever changes is our surroundings and our tools. When the error lies in ourselves changing everything around us doesn’t get us anywhere. So you see, progress IS an illusion, but not weakly based on a postmodernist world view.

 

(But anyway, I see how you could get the impression of me that you got by only reading my previous post in this thread.)

[goku]

look at it this way:

man wanted to go to the moon

man crashed and burned many times

man made it to the moon

now man crashing and burning again