Isaac Asimove is spinning in his Grave!

[TacoChang]

This is actual news people!

 

Project Alpha, a U.S. Joint Forces Command rapid idea analysis group, is in the midst of a study focusing on the concept of developing and employing robots that would be capable of replacing humans to perform many, if not most combat functions on the battlefield.

 

...First and foremost, national security is an overriding factor. In many cases, according to Johnson, robots will be more capable than humans. They will be more lethal, more mobile, and more survivable. They will have faster reaction times and have more and superior sensing capabilities. They don’t have fear, they don’t get hungry, sleepy, or tired, and they take humans out of danger. And, from an economic perspective, they are cheaper than humans.

 

You can find this and similar stories all around news groups. By the way. The final design prototype has been constructed and is ready for mass-production at about 1/4 million a peice. My opinion? This is a war-crime in the works. Yours?

[Buffy]

Sure does violate Issac's laws of robotics, but my understanding is that the DOD folks are just using remotely operated robots, cuz (due in part to all of Issac's books) they're paranoid about what an AI Soldier would actually do. They're having trouble recruiting people willing to get shot at for dubya...I mean dubious reasons, but what if they were able to say to all those game-addicted teenagers: "Join the army and play Quake *full time*!" It would keep the salaries low: just a bunch of bunks in the back of the room with a fridge filled with Coke and Snickers bars (game players don't even have to be in shape!).

 

Any Doom/Quake fans out there who want to comment? For me, the only game worth playing is Nascar Racing, so I can't really comment...

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[zadojla]

Crossing over two topics, many, many years ago a read a science fiction short story that I can no longer remember the title or author. The idea was, Armageddon had come, and there was a huge battle in the Sahara desert between an army of demons and the lastest combat robots men could field. The fight was tough, and the battle swung both ways, with huge "casualties", but the demons were defeated. A "presence" then appeared on the battlefield, the broken robots were healed and they rose up to Heaven. The humans were left behind.

[Queso]

wow. that is a crazy concept for a story, if you ever find it let me know, i would like to read it.

 

so these robots the army is ready to mass produce are controlled by humans, and not AI?

I don't find this a war crime...but if armies were "unfair" ours would be the one called "Cheap."

I can't even imagine what the world will be like when we have AI on our streets, in human robotic form, just wandering around. I know most of us will live to see it.

Anyway...wow I don't even really know what to say. I'm just amazed at all of this technology.

Has anybody seen the animatrix?

Well, actually the matrix too. Machine against man. I honestly think someday it will come to that, and we're just slowly screwing ourselves.

[Fishteacher73]

Don't you mean angels instead of robots, Zad? :(

[bumab]

Sure does violate Issac's laws of robotics, but my understanding is that the DOD folks are just using remotely operated robots, cuz (due in part to all of Issac's books) they're paranoid about what an AI Soldier would actually do.

 

I wouldn't worry about what an AI soldier would do yet, independent action, creative thought, etc. is probably a few years away at least.

 

The real worry for me is war getting more and more personal. Notice the protests in the US against the Gulf War didn't start in earnest until US soldiers started dying. Video game warfare is a war crime, frick, you don't have to worry about killing people anymore, they are just targets on the screen. If anything, it will make war MORE acceptable, since it will become LESS REAL to most people.

 

You'd just need to get the image of the enemy replaced by good old imps and munchers from DOOM 2 and we'd all have fun killing people across the globe.

 

Scary stuff. At least in the middle ages, you had to kill somebody face to face, you knew what you were doing and the implications of it.

[Buffy]

so these robots the army is ready to mass produce are controlled by humans, and not AI?

Its not that the DOD isn't working on AI, its just that its obvious it isn't going to be deployable soon (hey at least the missle defence makes pretty lights in the sky that can be called "successful"). We already have those ROV planes spying on Iran right now (and they can fire missles too!), and the stuff I've seen is mainly "Mars Rover" like things with video cameras and big guns. All ya need to make it go is a kid who's handy with a joystick.

I can't even imagine what the world will be like when we have AI on our streets, in human robotic form, just wandering around. I know most of us will live to see it.

I'd bet we see apes first, then they'll revolt and we'll never get to AI robots... :(

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[Queso]

hah, yeah I guess we'll just have to wait and see. although a pet robot monkey would be pretty nifty.

[alxian]

i doomed demons and caused the earth to quake.. but my best exprience was unreal!

 

i find that training soldiers with such games is good even some doctors extole the benefits of gaming and enhanced coordination [just don't ask the avergae gamer to dance.. eek]

 

i wonder though with the next crop of consoles and processors AI will get a boost but even now those apps only run off of rules rather than dynamic algorythms [persistant adaptive intelligence].. what would it take to create smart bots in such games? just more programming and processing power or are such advances being suppresses by this mass hysteria? inspired by science fiction? my brow furrows.. its not like a game AI will ever become a murderous machine... but where a human has the will to slay his neighbor i'm sure a hacked qrio can carry a katana.

 

remote controlled bots in the field.. enders game style, control your killer mech from a safe distance.. UCA unmanned combat android.

 

war crime in the works?? only if they are powered by mustard gas.. only by way of the controllers dying of laughter as the ennemy debates destroying the mech and releasing the poison gas cloud, or being cut to ribbons by a qrio sized assailant.

 

but you do know hardcore gamers are few and far between, i myself at least would have difficulty mowing down rendered foes if i knew they were real men in the field enemies or not. a game is a game and war is hell, one i want no part of. especially if i'm not fighting for my own survival.

[bumab]

but you do know hardcore gamers are few and far between, i myself at least would have difficulty mowing down rendered foes if i knew they were real men in the field enemies or not. a game is a game and war is hell, one i want no part of. especially if i'm not fighting for my own survival.

 

I didn't mean to imply we'd all be turned into people killing monsters (I love DOOM 2), but rather the gradual shift away from war seeming real might produce a cumulative effect in the future of war being less bad (not neccessarily better). I think the whole remote control war from Gulf 1, as it was protrayed on the news, was a lot less personal, and got a lot less people riled up, then say Vietnam.

 

Those images of missles flying down chimneys may have been cool, but a lot of people were in those buildings. I think the general public is beginning to forget that.

[Buffy]

but you do know hardcore gamers are few and far between, i myself at least would have difficulty mowing down rendered foes if i knew they were real men in the field enemies or not. a game is a game and war is hell, one i want no part of. especially if i'm not fighting for my own survival.

Oh they wouldn't necessarily tell you that..."we're doing some war games to test some battle plans...its all a simulation...really!"

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[pgrmdave]

I am fine with war being fought with robots. Eventually, both sides may use robots to destroy the other robots, and eliminate human deaths. War would then become entirely economic, who can produce the better robots, faster.

[Fishteacher73]

Although I'm sure the US gov't would never do anything immoral.. :( .

With items such as these ROV, theoretical bots and what not, how would the operator know if it were a simulation or the real thing?

 

Man in Black: "Hey, kid! Wanna play some video games?" :(

Kid: "Sure!" :(

Man in Black: "Here, sit down. Just shoot Osama look-a-likes." :(

Kid: "Cool!" :(

 

BTW...The US army already has a video game FPS that you can download as a"recruitment tool".

[Buffy]

how would the operator know if it were a simulation or the real thing?

Heck, I've always assumed that to *really* sell the product, they'd need to add more blood and flying body parts. Your average Doom/Quake fan would get bored otherwise...

 

Creepy,

Buffy

[Tormod]

Oh they wouldn't necessarily tell you that..."we're doing some war games to test some battle plans...its all a simulation...really!"

 

"Hello, Dr. Falcon. Would you like to play a game of chess?"

[Dark Mind]

I personally can't wait till we have androids walking amongst us, I think it would be hilarious to see what their "reactions" to certain actions or "gestures" would be hilarious but I can't see any practical reason there would be a robot walking down the street unless it was cleaning or reapairing it because it just wouldn't be economical for an android to be walking down the road (like they were in the Animatrix™). It would probably be a waste of it's energy and not not an economical use of it's time. Jet packs on the other hand...

 

"Hello, Dr. Falcon. Would you like to play a game of chess?"

 

Speaking of chess, you should get a games section on this site where users could compete against each other with games like chess or cribbage or even checkers for beginners. I probably should have put that in a different forum but oh well, it was brought up here.

[alxian]

Oh they wouldn't necessarily tell you that..."we're doing some war games to test some battle plans...its all a simulation...really!"

 

read enders game series..

 

its the whole plot, kids thinking they are training to fight a war they think is decades away, their training material though is live, they are killing real enemies while the think they are training to fight them when they get older.

 

thats not a full spoiler because the saga is nearly as long as dune.

 

i love sci-fi by card and heinlein and herbert.. can't say as much for the dune prequels.. but machine crusades once you get used to the horrific bloodlust of KJA and BH is somewhat ok.. still far too many errors to make it part of the original dune series. can't wait for corrin in paperback this september.