Home Solar Electricity on the Cheap

[Turtle]

A few years back I bought a photo-voltaic solar panel, a deep-cell 12V battery, and an 800 watt inverter to use as a portable power supply and for emergency use. :eek2: Anyway, I started using it to power my room yesterday & went a little bit off-grid. :shade: :D

 

This is a basic most-simple system, but it is easily added to both by adding more panels-which reduces battery charge time- and by adding batteries which extends the run time.

 

My idea here is to recruit y'all to invest in such a system, discuss your experiences, debate merits of equipment, and actually do something green. :)

 

I'm off then to find prices & availability of the basic 3 components. ........

[Zythryn]

Sweet!

Unfortunately I am a klutz when it comes to mechanical or electrical tinkering of any sort.

I do have a solar array set up though which I would be happy to contribute to any data gathering that would be useful.

You can see the overview of the performance at Zythryn's solar array overview

It is an 8.7Kw system in Minnesota (about 43 degrees N Latitude)

[alexander]

been talking about this for a couple of years now. My room is already pretty green, its fully underground, so its naturally climate-controlled, i use led lighting to keep the power consumption low to begin with.

 

Problem i have with a PV cells are thus:

90% are made in China, and Sulfuric acid used in their making is dumped into the rivers, which in turn means that my bying of a pv cell is causing more damange then my use of it redeems.

Here in the north east, we dont have enough sun light to use a single cell very economically, so i am yet to get a few (and i just saw a pv decently cheap, i just need an inverter for it), and create a rotating mount for reflectors for it, to make use of more solar power then the thing normally gets. though i think i have a neat idea, let me draw it out, and post it here, so you can have an idea of what my idea is for this mount :shade:.

[alexander]

basic idea is in the picture, its not that this hasnt been done before or anything, i have not made it happen yet, and that mount would be the only way to actually get decent solar power in the north, i think, because with reflective surfaces, you can cover an area, far greater then the general pv area...

 

though overdoing this may cause heat issues... maybe me needs to think about harvesting and using that heat too :shade:

[Turtle]

Sweet!

Unfortunately I am a klutz when it comes to mechanical or electrical tinkering of any sort.

I do have a solar array set up though which I would be happy to contribute to any data gathering that would be useful.

You can see the overview of the performance at Zythryn's solar array overview

It is an 8.7Kw system in Minnesota (about 43 degrees N Latitude)

 

:eek: Wow! That's a cool graphic. Can we see the setup from GoogleEarth? :) :) More details man...pleeeeeease.

 

been talking about this for a couple of years now. My room is already pretty green, its fully underground, so its naturally climate-controlled, i use led lighting to keep the power consumption low to begin with.

 

Problem i have with a PV cells are thus:

90% are made in China, and Sulfuric acid used in their making is dumped into the rivers, which in turn means that my bying of a pv cell is causing more damange then my use of it redeems.

Here in the north east, we dont have enough sun light to use a single cell very economically, so i am yet to get a few (and i just saw a pv decently cheap, i just need an inverter for it), and create a rotating mount for reflectors for it, to make use of more solar power then the thing normally gets. though i think i have a neat idea, let me draw it out, and post it here, so you can have an idea of what my idea is for this mount . :)

 

Roger. Firstly, if the grid goes down & you don't have your own juice, then low consumption is moot. :D

 

In keeping with Obamas plan to create green jobs in the US, shop for components manufactured in the US. Yes there are pollution costs for all such production, but at least we in the US have tougher standards than in China and we can keep people employed. [A German company just opened a new photovoltaic panel factory across the Columbia River from me in Portland area*. SolarWorld I think it's called. Will get some details presently.

 

Photovoltaic panels produce juice even in cloudy conditions and for an in-home use as I envision, a moving mount is impracticle & unnecessary.

 

My parts are all separate, but I think a cabinet of some kind is needed. Designers can get all designy on the exterior of this new piece of 21st century 'furniture'. :eek2:

 

My panel is 1 watt 1 amp, 15 watt and 1 foot wide & 3 feet long. I paid $130 for it about 4 years ago. I found a similar panel online for $27! What!!??? Power Up BSP1-12 1W 12V Solar Panel - 1 to 50 Watt Solar Panels @ AltE

Last time I checked at GIJoes where I bought mine, they were still $150! Is the promise of lower prices really here? Comperable panel I found online for $100: Northern Industrial High Wattage Solar Panels — 15 Watt | Amorphus Solar Panels | Northern Tool + Equipment

 

My battery is 100 amp hours and I think I paid about $180 for it. Here's something close in specs: >> 12 V 92 AH AGM 8A27 | Batterystuff.com

 

My inverter is 800 watts and I paid ~ $90. (I recommend at least 1200 Watt in retrospect. :doh:) Here's something comperable to mine & selling for $70. Aims 800 Watt Power Inverter pwrin800w

 

I'm running my TV, radio, desk light, & battery chargers; I may have to cut back my TV viewing. :eek:

 

So I'm thinking a furniture like cabinet & panel(s) in the window. :shade:

 

 

*Solarworld comes to Hillsboro - Portland Business Journal:

Solarworld AG, a German company that acquired a factory in Hillsboro, announced Thursday plans to invest $397 million to double its solar-cell and wafer production by 2010 and add 1,000 new jobs.

 

Solarworld will move current production facilities from Vancouver to Hillsboro. The Vancouver plant, which makes silicon ingots used to build solar wafers and employs 100, will be closed. Employees in Vancouver will be offered jobs at the new facility.

 

Frank Asbeck, chairman and CEO, said the Hillsboro factory would be the largest solar-wafer and cell factory in the United States.

 

Production is expected to begin this summer.

 

By the end of 2009, the Hillsboro factory will be able to produce solar silicon wafers and solar cells capable of generating 500 megawatts of electricity per year, Asbeck said.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Schweet!! Hey Alex! I've got the perfect mount for them reflectors or the PV's themselves....used "old school" satalite dish mounts linear actuator and all...Bet they're pretty cheap these days with almost everyone switching to the mini-dishes...plus they're strong enough to hold and move 12'X12' PV array.:shade:....you could tie them into your computer even for optimal tracking!!!

[Turtle]

We have discussed large setups over in another thread, so I'll point to that for those discussions. >> http://hypography.com/forums/technology-and-gadgets/4423-solar-energy-19.html#post193083

 

What I mean to get at here is an emphasis on "on the Cheap", and on a small system that even apartment dwellers can use. Having more than about 1 watt 1 amp from panels requires a charge controller and so that would be an optional add on if the user wants to add more panels. (link above is the charge controller discussion part of the solar power thread.) :D

 

So I'm suggesting a 100 amp-hour battery, a 1200 watt inverter, and a 1 watt 1 amp/15 watt panel & set up indoors.

 

Battery: ~$250.00

Inverter: ~$130.00

Panel: ~$30.00~100.00

Total: ~410.00 ~480.00

 

I'd add to that ~$30 for a marine-type battery box to bring it to about $450.00 $510.00. Christmas is just around the corner........ :shade: :):xmas_gift::eek2: 80 Battery Boxes

[alexander]

Photovoltaic panels produce juice even in cloudy conditions and for an in-home use as I envision, a moving mount is impracticle & unnecessary.

There are a couple of ways to get efficiency out of a PV cell that we know;

get more light, either by means of putting those dimpled glass covers that, will collect more light, by using lenses of some sort, or by reflecting light into the pannel, also using Fresnel lenses has been becoming pretty popular as well...

You can also get higher efficiency pv cells, or even pv film which is becoming really really popular.

 

Inverter is cheaper then converting your house to dc.

 

So I'm suggesting a 100 amp-hour battery

I have one, but its not everybody who can get a free 1000VA battery backup unit from work for free, that at 475W will give 17.5 minutes of life... I am planning on extending that though, the inverter should handle it for my use, but its not an ideal solution, i want an inverter so i can backfeed energy when its being made, and use it when it's being used... battery bank is nice, battery bank and a small electrical bill is nicer.

 

1200 watt inverter

if you have a link to a good one, i would love to buy it within a couple of days... really, i've been looking for an inverter for a great while, problem is, it has to be state of California certified inverter for it to feed back into the grid...

 

i'd like to get a set of smart reflectors working, it would need a computer, well, more like a very small, low power consumption, no heat sink board, and a controller board, so i can monitor and rotate the reflectors, depending on sunlight... or if there is not enough sun, flip the pannels out so they are in direct path of light... i like my green technology as smart as possible :shade:

[Zythryn]

:eek2: Wow! That's a cool graphic. Can we see the setup from GoogleEarth? :shade: More details man...pleeeeeease.

 

Well, considering I missed the 'on the cheap' part in the subject, it seems I posted in the wrong place. Wish I could say it was done on the cheap, but not yet (unless you count the total cost over 20 years;)),

I did respond with more details in the other thread you mentioned.

Unfortunately the house isn't even shown in GoogleEarth yet (the image is about 3 years out of date). Hopefully they update the image soon!

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Sorry Mr.Turtle...I saw on the cheap and figured this would be a cheap way to be super cool and have sun "chasing" PV,s...Btw they used to make 4'ers as well and these as well as the larger units tend to be cheap (as people these days tend to consider them eye sores and a nuisance eating up their valuable real estate) or "if you want to get it outa here you can have it". But any these units would allow for a mount that keeps up with your collection of PV's. Ie. the four footer would easily handle four arrays of the type you have...start with one add another when you can and so on...I realize this isn't practical for a big city type apartment building. But I have seen these dishes mounted on homemade trailers, so for a rural type apartment or a duplex could be practical.

 

And that's the last you'll hear of this from me here;) (elsewhere may be another story;))

[alexander]

found an interesting company, rosestreet labs, they make high efficiency multiband pv cells. I'm going to contact them to see if they are selling their product to consumers not interested in large quantities and whether i could buy a couple of pannels from them...

[Turtle]

found an interesting company, rosestreet labs, they make high efficiency multiband pv cells. I'm going to contact them to see if they are selling their product to consumers not interested in large quantities and whether i could buy a couple of pannels from them...

 

Roger. I have to go back & make corrections in my shopping list as I said 1 watt panel & I meant 1 Amp which is a 15 watt panel. :eek2: I thought the price sounded low. :shade:

 

I also checked prices on metal gym lockers, which I think would make a good base cabinet for holding components. Be back later with some sources & prices. (this is my roomy's machine & he's gaming, but on break so pardon my absense on his return. )

[alexander]

well i went ahead and purchaised a controller kit, so i can start programming it, solar here is worthless till the next summer, so i have a few months to play with the kit..

[Turtle]

I have one, but its not everybody who can get a free 1000VA battery backup unit from work for free, that at 475W will give 17.5 minutes of life... I am planning on extending that though, the inverter should handle it for my use, but its not an ideal solution, i want an inverter so i can backfeed energy when its being made, and use it when it's being used... battery bank is nice, battery bank and a small electrical bill is nicer.

 

1250 watt inverter

if you have a link to a good one, i would love to buy it within a couple of days... really, i've been looking for an inverter for a great while, problem is, it has to be state of California certified inverter for it to feed back into the grid...

 

I found a 1250 watt job, but again I am only talking about a stand-alone system and the connection of inverter to battery is via cables. I found a dandy though that has battery level & amperage use meters right on front. Aims 1250 Watt DC to AC Power Inverter

 

So in my metal locker I would put the battery in the plastic box in the bottom & above that a shelf for the inverter and an opening cut in the locker side for the inverter face panel & outlets to have outside access. The PV panel could hang on the back of the locker facing a window or detach and set directly in a window track/sill. I'm thinking turn-key system that you can wheel in and start using right away. :hihi: :shrug: I found an inexpensive locker for ~$80 (locker ), so that brings the price of components to ~$600 US.

 

I don't know for sure what my battery's charge was when I started but I ran it down watching too much TV in a day & 1/2. :doh: Rats! That 1 amp panel will take days to recharge the 100 amp-hour battery. :eek2: Still, I saved a teensy bit and every teensy bit counts. ...... :doh:

[alexander]

Turtle, why in the name of Ronald Neil Stuart, would you use an inverter to charge batteries? You may need a filter, or a crafty vr, but trust me, there is no need to convert the power from DC that PV cells give, to AC and then back to DC to charge batteries :shrug:

[alexander]

lol i can sketch up a system for you to connect directly to the battery terminals, bypassing the middle man, and increasing your efficiency by a LOT, seriously, inverters are some of the most inefficient electronics components... especially high quality inverters that give you smooth AC.

 

I'd need the voltage output of the pannels, and the what your batteries run (or at least what you have for batteries and how you are connecting them (serial, parallel, combinations, what have you))

 

doing some quick math here, even if both inverters operated at 85% efficiency, you still only get about 73% total efficiency at the end, and thats from potential 95-98% that you can get from a direct dc to dc system...

[Roadam]

I was recently looking for an inverter for a small hydro power turbine and as far as I know inverters can be about 94% efficient. But to convert from ac to dc and back again is a waste. You could easily use a bock/boost converter. Buck-boost converter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia