Char from algae ?

[froggy]

And might the best species win ! Probably, the local species.

...

growing algae near the sea, partially with seawater , wouldn't be a way of harvesting nutrients in addition to carbon.

...

To sum up, I am a bit doubtful about the possibility to grow algae for fuel (at least in the short term), but there could to be some specific were algae fulfills a combinations of requirments that will make it valuable enough to compete existing separate techniques.

I think these are sensable applications.

 

Im not anti algae, I love the stuff. Im anti crazy talk.

 

Im becoming more and more fond of the halophyte system, I think its likely biofuels best option (other than biowaste energy).Alas, Im an inland freshwater frog. The swamp is always greener on the other side of the fence, eh?

[mervenvs]

Im anti crazy talk.

And it's good ! Your links were very useful and I think one of the problems that slows down all this stuff a lot is overhype and the lack of large vision. That's why this kind of forum can be very valuable :).

 

Im becoming more and more fond of the halophyte system, I think its likely biofuels best option (other than biowaste energy).

Why is that ? Does it provide faster growth than other biomass systems ?

Or is it just because you can grow it in waters which are too saline for common crops ?

 

BTW, what do you think of Algenol ? Theirs claims are wonderful, but I wonder if it's not an hoax/fraud.Their "mexican associate" Biofields has a very similar website and only relies on the same technology...

 

edit:maybe we should get rid of this topic and go in algae...

[froggy]

Why is that ?

As I have already tried to show, it needs to be cheap and easy. The beauty of seawater is that its cheap and easy.

 

Im also confident that nano-technology is going to greatly increase the efficiency of de-sal and other separation technology. This new technology will couple well with these massive salt systems that are going to be developed as more and more ppl need more and more room and resources.

[palmtreepathos]

There is algae and then there is ALGAE!

 

I kept wondering what the Chinese were doing with all that seaweed they scooped out of the bay, before the Olympics

 

temperatures are coming back to normal here in the southeastern US

and I thought to drain a small pond and put the skanky slurry on

my "terra preta pile" but am still thwarted by 3 inches of ice.

Washing algae off of the pump housing got me to thinking about the

algae (150,000 tons)that was reported at the Olympic boating site in

China in June '08.

 

China says it has cleared algae from Olympic sailing venue | csmonitor.com

An unwelcome attendee at the Olympics: Algae - International Herald Tribune

 

Called "an unavoidable natural disaster" in the press, I immediately

thought potential opportunity! In fact, one of the articles on it

said it would be turned into carbon. I am wondering how big is the

carbon making field in China? What processes might they use and did

it actually get done.(Simiar thoughts on the wood waste in

Houston,Tx)

 

I imagine the water that is held in algae(90%)would have to be dealt

with first... then dried, chopped up, pelleted etc

 

http://www.zyz.com/survivalcenter/images/Wringer.jpg

 

It would probably be better dealt with from the water, a self-

contained barge with an eprida type pyrolizer? Maybe it could make

it's own fuel, etc?

 

1945 US NAVY BARGE Commercial Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

 

But I am getting way ahead of myself. The real question is 'is algae

a good candidate for biochar'? I have heard of its potential but has

it been done in real time? And how often does this type algal bloom

come along?

[Essay]

Johannes Lehmann (Cornell Univ. I think) is one of the most visible researchers in the field, notably working in Brazil near historical terra preta sites. I'm not sure about the figures but he does claim that there is a positive humus gain (i.e. apart from the added charcoal, there is still a mass gain).

 

I would be careful, because this observation is still controversial. Another group pointed out the fact that Lehmann's group only measures the top few cm of the soil (maybe 20 or 30, I don't remember). In their article, they observe that when you go deeper, there is an overall mass loss, due to enhanced microbacterial/fungal activity. So they cast doubt on the actual CO2 storage habilities of char. But as far as I remember this was done in Sweden (I think it's the same article I am thinking about), which obviously consists in very different conditions than the subtropical climate of historical TP sites.

 

There have been a few discussions in Science or Nature recently between Lehmann and another guy.

If you are interested, I can have a look at the names and links. I'll try to sum that up when I have a bit more time.

 

Hey thanks,

 

Yes, the biomass increase would be greatest in marginal (originally light, low nutrient) soils.

 

The Swedish experiment was (if I recall) in forest soils--where increasing bioactivity in an already stable, carbon-rich soil would end up degrading a lot of that richness. The char would facilitate the growth of microbes that would eat whatever was available.

 

The trick with marginal soils is to provide some "waste material" along with the char to encourage the wee beasties. The beasties themselves are what then become the richness of the "new" soil.

===

 

In the long run, algae might be a better feedstock for the microbes in a marginal (but char-supplemented) soil region.

 

hmmmm....

I suspect that wood char has some favorable properties that algal char might not offer.

It'd be interesting to see some electron micrographs of charcoals from various sources.

[Essay]

There is algae and then there is ALGAE!

 

 

 

temperatures are coming back to normal here in the southeastern US

and I thought to drain a small pond and put the skanky slurry on

my "terra preta pile" but am still thwarted by 3 inches of ice.

Washing algae off of the pump housing got me to thinking about the

algae (150,000 tons)that was reported at the Olympic boating site in

China in June '08.

 

China says it has cleared algae from Olympic sailing venue | csmonitor.com

An unwelcome attendee at the Olympics: Algae - International Herald Tribune

 

Called "an unavoidable natural disaster" in the press, I immediately

thought potential opportunity! In fact, one of the articles on it

said it would be turned into carbon. I am wondering how big is the

carbon making field in China? What processes might they use and did

it actually get done.(Simiar thoughts on the wood waste in

Houston,Tx)

 

I imagine the water that is held in algae(90%)would have to be dealt

with first... then dried, chopped up, pelleted etc

 

http://www.zyz.com/survivalcenter/images/Wringer.jpg

 

It would probably be better dealt with from the water, a self-

contained barge with an eprida type pyrolizer? Maybe it could make

it's own fuel, etc?

 

1945 US NAVY BARGE Commercial Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

 

But I am getting way ahead of myself. The real question is 'is algae

a good candidate for biochar'? I have heard of its potential but has

it been done in real time? And how often does this type algal bloom

come along?

Hey, you could generate algal blooms whenever you wanted to by the old trick of fertilizing the ocean with iron (to soak up CO2)...

...but I'd rather design the bloom to support rebuilding of the pelagic food chain.

...but extra blooms could be harvested for biomass on a barge; however....

 

I think Froggy has a good point with the energy required for the drying process. That'd either be energy, or labor/space, intensive.

 

But if you just compost the algae the right way, you would end up turning it into "feedstock" for the microbes/worms/fungi, and other wee beasties.

 

I bet worms would love algae.

Let us know what happens with your algae.

Can you mix it with dry, high-carbon, mulch or other wastes?

I'm assuming algae would compost kinda like fresh grass clippings.

That'd be perfect worm food if properly mixed, I'd think.

 

~ :naughty:

[froggy]

algae (150,000 tons)that was reported at the Olympic boating site in

China in June '08.

Lets assume that the algal mats were ~ 40% carbon by dry weight. Altho I know this assumption is wrong, lets assume they actually ment 150000 t dry weight = 60000t of C / .2727 (mol weight of C in CO2) = 220000t of CO2.

 

I think this shows the scale of what the biosphere cycles every day. This shows the opportunity that waste biomass offers in existing quantities that are suitable for scaleup.

 

But what else this shows me, is why bother with biofuels grown on the farm when there is literally millions of tons rotting away all around us? I think (I know) the answer is not in the technical journals and science papers, its in the economic journals and governmental budget papers. Its how humans value some things and not others. Its why we can have billions of gallons of manure that causes issues in one place and right across the road is a field of corn destined for the ethanol plant. Why we have 100's of millions of $ going into turning algae into fuel with a less than .1% solids effluent and we call 11% solids dairy effluent 'toxic pollution' and still yet, end up dumping it all in our fields (to feed the weebeasties to feed the soil to feed the corn to feed the ethanol plant to feed the car). Oy, my brain hurts from the insanity...

[froggy]

I think Froggy has a good point with the energy required for the drying process. That'd either be energy, or labor/space, intensive

 

10 years ago, no one thought to ask a simple question, how many gallons of ethanol does it take to grow 1 gallon of ethanol. Now, after people are finally trying to answer this, EROI has become an important calc in ethanol production. Im afraid algae doesnt get that benefit of EROI missunderstanding this time around. Yet... strangely enough, I hear very little about this very important LCA calculation.

 

And let me ask this as simply as I can, how many MJ of outside energy goes into producing even 1 MJ of energy via algae to energy schemes? Grave to grave, what is the real net.

 

When I hear people talking about 5000gal/ac/yr or 10000, or 20000 or even 100000, I think WTF are these people smokin? Have they totally lost their minds? Are people so gullible that they will fall for the same broken dreams as ethanol over and over? Why has no one even bothered to run even the most basic of LCA calcs? Any EROI whatsoever?

[Knothead]

This thread inspired me to harvest some algae from my pond and make a solar dryer yesterday. When it's dry enough, I'll try to make some biochar in my little stove.

In the past, the stuff was just a nuisance. Then when I started composting and raising worms, I started using it for that. It's going to be fun to see if it chars well.

I really don't know what kind of algae it is but it's very stringy, grows very quickly and nothing I do seems to stop it except adding expensive chemicals. So I've resigned myself to living with it.

It doesn't seem to decompose very quickly in the worm bin.

I harvest it using a wooden dowel chucked into an eggbeater type hand drill. It reminds me of cotton candy the way it wraps around the dowel. Then I just slide it off the end. I squeezed the majority of the water out in a old mop wringer and after only one afternoon in the solar dryer, it's mostly dry.

I'll post how it turns out.