Story of the eye: a pornography update

[motherengine]

pornography in general is becoming more concerned with degradation than giving pleasure. the industry has never been an overly healthy one, the forbidden fruit aspect (which may or may not be a reaction to catholic philosophy) has always been a big selling point, 'i am so naughty, does it turn you on?' but de-virgination has become overt violation and pornography is becoming more and more brutal and 'de sade' oriented as culture is progressing. with the advent of internet technology the means to meet the demand of seeing what one has not seen before is delivering imagery which is actually starting to make anti-porn arguments from the andrea dworkins of the world seem more and more justifiable. 'pornography is rape' is now almost a tagline for the popular market. where is this going and how is it affecting modern culture and relationships, and is internet technology 'spoiling the brew' so to speak?

[TeleMad]

My main (only?) problem with internet pornography is that anyone can view it at some sites.

 

My boys - about 9 and 7 at the time - went with me to college where I was tutoring someone in C++. When I logged them in, they went to a site where they could play checkers and I went to row in front of them to start tutoring my tutee. I heard some giggling from the boys behind me but didn't think much of it as they are so young and always giggle when they're together. But on the way home, they told me that one of the friends from school told them to go to certain web sites and they started telling me some of the "funny" things they had seen: things I can't describe here. If the site forced people to become a member to view any of their actual porn pages, then they wouldn't have seen that stuff.

[Buffy]

Actually if you check out the AV trade rags, by far the biggest trend is in marketing to women, which has started to have a big impact on the horrifyingly boring similarity of all AV content, which unquestionably has had a male viewpoint and emphasizes objectifying women, even from the mainstream producers. A lot of this change has been due to some female porn stars like Jenna Jameson and Jill Kelly getting enough money to start their own production companies that have had a huge impact. This stuff will never satisfy Andrea Dworkin or Catherine McKinnon, but its definitely pushing it into the mainstream and forcing it to cater to "normal" tastes, and more importantly giving it a female viewpoint that has been entirely missing to date. The target is the Naomi Wolf generation, and they're out there. The same thing has happened to Nascar: at the Daytona 500 today, the top billed entertainment was Brian Wilson: even 5 years ago, if it wasn't a Country act it would not have even been thought of.

 

The internet on the otherhand is the only outlet for the "perverted" content (what the AV industry calls "true pornography"), because its easy to distribute there and spamming people is turning out to be the only way to drive people to the sites that distribute this garbage. I think this has created the perception that there's an increase in it, when in fact its being increasingly marginalized. The mainstream AV production companies won't touch the bizzare, violence-driven stuff anymore. It simply doesn't sell.

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[TeleMad]

The mainstream AV production companies won't touch the bizzare, violence-driven stuff anymore. It simply doesn't sell.

 

Might depend on your definition of mainstream. Within that last year, I've seen coverart with a woman near the edge of a swimming pool, with the man holding her head underwater while he is putting a baseball bat - large end first - into her hind quarters. I've also seen coverart of the weird kind: "Tranny Grannies", fat hairy women, midgets, beastiality, etc. And much unlike older porn, I don't think you will find many today that don't have anal and DP.

[motherengine]

The internet on the otherhand is the only outlet for the "perverted" content (what the AV industry calls "true pornography"), because its easy to distribute there and spamming people is turning out to be the only way to drive people to the sites that distribute this garbage. I think this has created the perception that there's an increase in it, when in fact its being increasingly marginalized. The mainstream AV production companies won't touch the bizzare, violence-driven stuff anymore. It simply doesn't sell.

 

i always find it interesting when pronographers try to distiguish between themselves, 'we not nearly as superficial and sleazy as those guys'. i don't buy into the camille paglia feminist pro-porn philosophy or the 'a sexy woman is a strong woman' concept any more than i do the anti-porn rhetoric but to each their own. as far the popularity of harder edged pornography though, based on news reports and rental store information i am pretty sure the rocco siffredis and max hardcores of the world are doing markedly better in sales all told. young males [18-30] are (and probably always will be) the porn markets most avid consumers and the tastes of this crowd are statistically getting darker.

[Buffy]

as far the popularity of harder edged pornography though, based on news reports and rental store information i am pretty sure the rocco siffredis and max hardcores of the world are doing markedly better in sales all told. young males [18-30] are (and probably always will be) the porn markets most avid consumers and the tastes of this crowd are statistically getting darker.

News reports I think are colored by the fact that the shocking stuff is so much more interesting to cover! I saw an article in Salon too in the last week or so that the feds are going after some of the sicko types, and I also know that when the conservative news sources talk about it, its all bestiality and child molestation. I haven't seen any rental numbers, but I do have a couple of friends in the business who've talked about the shift. You're right about everyone denigrating the "lower than me", but I think that shows that the trend is to try to mainstream this stuff because that's where the money is: its actually good marketing to try to put the sickos out of business because they slime everyone.

 

I'd also agree about the fact that that the prime audience is still young boys, and if they are renting that kind of stuff in droves, well, it sure explains why they can't get/keep a girlfriend.... :(

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[sanctus]

Buffy and mother engine.

You both say that the main customers are boys between 18 and 30? Are you sure about that? I guess it must be so in hte states, over here I get another impression. Sure it's mainly people in this age set that go looking in internet for some free pornography, but actually buying the new videos/dvds it seems to me thtat it is more the elder men (starting from the sixties). And my visit in the erotic museum in Copenhagen confirms my impression, there were visitors of all ages but the ones sitting in front of the 16 screens showing 16 different porn movies and cartoons were only elder men (ok, you might say because they didn't bother what the tourists thought about them).

 

Anyway I haven't read statistics, it is just my impression...

[motherengine]

Buffy and mother engine.

You both say that the main customers are boys between 18 and 30? Are you sure about that? I guess it must be so in hte states, over here I get another impression. Sure it's mainly people in this age set that go looking in internet for some free pornography, but actually buying the new videos/dvds it seems to me thtat it is more the elder men (starting from the sixties). And my visit in the erotic museum in Copenhagen confirms my impression, there were visitors of all ages but the ones sitting in front of the 16 screens showing 16 different porn movies and cartoons were only elder men (ok, you might say because they didn't bother what the tourists thought about them).

 

Anyway I haven't read statistics, it is just my impression...

 

good point, though i believe the young men out number the old men in this instance, i certainly could be wrong.

[motherengine]

as far as what kind of pornography sells the most all told [internet and traditional sales] evil angel, red light district and hustler are neck and neck with vivid. of the three mentioned before vivid, evil angel (john stagliano's multi-million dollar label) is the forerunner of 'gonzo' pornography and european violation-oriented porn. despite what many may think this stuff is the new wave of erotica in both america and europe. critically praised 'art-house' films like gasper noe's 'irreversible' and 'the piano teacher' are the mainstream cousins of this type of work regardless of how 'poignant' and well crafted they are. female abuse is still quite a marketing device and personally i do not see feminism as a particularly powerful or influential force in media these days. what is the female to male ratio in relation to being sexualized and having sexuality be a major factor in his/her success and how does this tie in with 'gonzo' porn sales and the expectations of european as well as american youth culture. i don't want to appear overly conservative here but i think this is an interesting and relevant subject.

[Buffy]

You both say that the main customers are boys between 18 and 30? Are you sure about that? I guess it must be so in hte states, over here I get another impression.

Oh its hugely different here. Sex is still unbeleivably taboo here, and the old guys get, uh, looks. Its pretty much assumed here that older guys must be child molesters if they are seen with porno. OTOH, its considered normal for bachelor parties and the like (note all the jokes concerning Chandler's interest in porn on "Friends"). You'll find no place in the US like Copenhagen or Amsterdam of course...

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[sanctus]

Is it really taboo? Isn't it a bit more subtle? I mean officialy it is taboo, but actually it is an easy argument between friends? At least in Melbourne (I tend to think that the culture there is sort of like the one in the US), where I lived for a year, I got that impression. There were always jokes about sex and not only between boys.

[sanctus]

Mother engine, you actually asked something very interesting. Why does this violent-sex stuff sell so well?

The only thing that comes to my mind is that it happens for the same reason as the mangas (or hentai) in/from Japan. I read somewhere that the reason why in those comics all the girls do whatever the men want and have big childish eyes is due to the cultural change which happened when the women got more freedom and therefore the men had the the need to satisfy their wishes by alternative means...

The childish eyes just symbolizes the so-called innocence...

 

I guess it must something like that.

 

But, actually now as I write it come to my mind, isn't it because sex and violence seems to be the only thrill which appeals a great amount of young people? I mean all the ones who are in the streets (I mean for example those who "destroyed" geneva during G8, it was no black block, it was mainly some teenagers who just found it funny and had nothing better to do).

 

That were just some ideas what do you think?

[motherengine]

generally sexuality in males is visually oriented. i think this is directly tied into one of the many components of violence in pornography of late. erotic imagery is more readily available than ever before with the sexualizing of the mainstream (at least in north america) and the advent of the internet. so much is so easily aquired that enough minds begin to desire more to instigate a change in the market. david cronenberg's character max renn in the film videodrome talks about 'simple economics' being the reason the television channel he runs shows certain violent and sexual material. to survive in the media wasteland one needs to offer images that people have not and/or cannot see anywhere else. and this i think is a major reason for what is occuring now. the max renn character is also relevant in that he has seen so much standard pornography that he is driven towards snuff films in order to satisfy his erotic desires. with the easy avalibilty off as well as online of sex/violence fusions like the legally questionable 'bum fights' i think an influx of information is showing its downside culturally speaking.

[Fishteacher73]

Violence and sex are also primordial drives or instincts. Granted we have injected modern humanity into each of these acts, at the base they are animal urges, that are probably closly linked in the brian...just some thoughts.

[motherengine]

Violence and sex are also primordial drives or instincts. Granted we have injected modern humanity into each of these acts, at the base they are animal urges, that are probably closly linked in the brian...just some thoughts.

 

inherent drives maybe, but technically not instincts. testosterone factors in both sex and violence as well as the aspect of tension and release relating to behavior though i think the level of interest in observing violent sexuality is marked by different chemical processes than the desire to commit such acts.