Subliminal perception

[Fishteacher73]

I think music is the most primitive "language". It probably developed in some sort (rhythmic clacking of two rocks maybe...) before any real spoken language existed. So I think by default musick is purely subliminal. In essence just variation in souldwaves, yet somehow it evokes a feeling. Sometimes slight and basically un-noticed and at other times massive and all consuming. This can all be done WITHOUT LYRICS! Totaly fascinating... :naughty:

[IrishEyes]

i've seen her... there was a point in time when i wanted to be a coke can...

There was a point in time, eh???

 

As for any type of sublimal suggestions... I am a firm believer. I think I told you guys once about my high school french teacher. The woman was amazing, she knew French, Spanish, Portugese, German, enough Cantonese to live in China, and English, of course. She was an avid linguist, and she had a passion for teaching. When some of her French II students were having a hard time with vocab lists and verb conjugation, she ditched the books and went for a bit of an unorthodox method. We all got our parents to sign a permission slip for 'alternative learning styles', and set out on a journey... Every day before a major test, we pushed all of the desks against the wall, turned out the lights, locked the doors, and laid down on the floor. She would walk us through some deep relaxation techniques and then read of our vocab words, conjugation rules, etc. There was always an 'observer' in the room to make sure it was only educational stuff, so it was rather safe. And would you believe that not a single person got less than a "B" in that class after she started? It was rather amazing. I know it's not exactly the type of subliminal thing you were probably thinking of, but it worked just the same. It wasn't hypnosis, just a series of suggestions and instructions that were given while in a state of total relaxation. It was also the only class that I didn't have text anxiety in. :)

[Turtle]

___I think just looking at all the post & information on this topic clearly indicates the existence of a subliminal effect. For one thing, if there wasn't some measurable effect the marketers wouldn't be spending money on it. I don't think they have any magic formula or really understand how it works, but rather they put hidden images in the adds & then simply measure response to the add in relation to a normal 'control' add. If it works use it, if not try something else.

___Don't think that having a Phd makes you exempt either. By changing the nature of the sublimal 'icon' to suit different authority figures, anyone is susceptible. I refer you to Stanley Milgrams work on response to authority. :)

[Fishteacher73]

I think being aware of either manipulation or possible manipulation through subtle means makes it more difficult to be influence by them. Not that it impossible or that all manipulation is known. I think some one (possibly Turtle) in another thread that it is much more difficult to hypnotize someone that is skeptical of that ability. I think that the same would apply to a degree to such manipulation.

 

This also is dependent upon what and how we classify subliminal messages/influencing. Possible subliminal methods would be images that make sugestive assosiations (This product would make you cool; make people like me, etc.). Other possiblities exist such as colors or music that invokes a specific reaction. this would be a brain reaction that would be completely disconected from rationalization.

[Turtle]

___Fish said, " I think some one (possibly Turtle) in another thread that it is much more difficult to hypnotize someone that is skeptical of that ability..." I had to check your reference to me (subliminal suggestion?) & I found it was C1ay in this thread that adduced that hypothesis. Not that I wouldn't, only that I might not remember.

___This topic may well also play into the area of visual/auditory illusions. For example the famous is it a vase or two faces in profile illusion.

___I have also seen studies on subliminal learning, ie. a tape recorder playing while you sleep. If I recall, retention was only statistically significant for the period of time just before & just entering sleep. No benefit or effect was observed for REM sleep for example. :cup:

[lindagarrette]

There was a point in time, eh???

 

As for any type of sublimal suggestions... I am a firm believer. I think I told you guys once about my high school french teacher. The woman was amazing, she knew French, Spanish, Portugese, German, enough Cantonese to live in China, and English, of course. She was an avid linguist, and she had a passion for teaching. When some of her French II students were having a hard time with vocab lists and verb conjugation, she ditched the books and went for a bit of an unorthodox method. We all got our parents to sign a permission slip for 'alternative learning styles', and set out on a journey... Every day before a major test, we pushed all of the desks against the wall, turned out the lights, locked the doors, and laid down on the floor. She would walk us through some deep relaxation techniques and then read of our vocab words, conjugation rules, etc. There was always an 'observer' in the room to make sure it was only educational stuff, so it was rather safe. And would you believe that not a single person got less than a "B" in that class after she started? It was rather amazing. I know it's not exactly the type of subliminal thing you were probably thinking of, but it worked just the same. It wasn't hypnosis, just a series of suggestions and instructions that were given while in a state of total relaxation. It was also the only class that I didn't have text anxiety in. :cup:

Only that's not subliminal influence, it's direct learning without distractions. Subliminal takes place when your conscious mind is preoccupied so that's just the opposite.

[Qfwfq]

Subliminal techniques work, I have no doubt about it. Indeed they work all to well and it will be difficult to avoid them being increasingly exploited to control society.

 

Ironically, the reason they can be so effective is that they work due to mechanisms that have helped survival. Much as hunters and fishers are exploiting the survival behaviour and instincts of their prey, using bait for instance, malicious parties can exploit survival mechanisms to manipulate us. Degree of success varies amonst targets but the effect is there and it is typically strong.

 

Why do parents make pss-wss-wss sounds when they want a child to pee? They exploit the relic of an old animal instinct to urinate where there is a flow of water that can carry the smell away, with a survival value for some animals. Sometimes the stimulus is partly cultural, Paplov demonstrated that the mechanism can be acquired.

 

Subliminal simply means that the stimulus is recieved but hardly noticed, nothing mysterious about that, nothing to be skeptical of. Quite simply, the mechanism can work at least as much and often even more. This is because it doesn't rely on conscious thought but on automatic reaction and, in some cases, the former can interfere or even reduce the effect.

 

As for the use of sex, I disagree that it is used less on male targets than on female targets. It is used in different ways, sure, and of course subliminal means less noticeable. Many a guy wouldn't be caught dead reading consultance in a magazine about how to please a girl better, it just ain't cool, a guy's suppos'ta just be cool and not need to learn how. A guy would typically be less afraid of the embarassment of being seen with porn. Seeking advice about sports or DIY is OK. Anyway, regarding advertising, I've seen models used for hardware or even plumbing products. Anything positive helps to sell any type of product or service. To the guy target buying underware, a sexy male model is less positive than in the female case, while a cool male model might be quite another matter.

 

BTW, does anyone here have an idea of why it became traditional to pop bottles of champagne, or similar wines, as a way of celebrating something?

[Fishteacher73]

Subliminal simply means that the stimulus is recieved but hardly noticed, nothing mysterious about that, nothing to be skeptical of. Quite simply, the mechanism can work at least as much and often even more. This is because it doesn't rely on conscious thought but on automatic reaction and, in some cases, the former can interfere or even reduce the effect.

 

I guess by definition a subliminal input is impossible to avoid, but IMO what is subliminal for some may not be so for others. To ackowledge its presence is to disarm it.

[Fishteacher73]

BTW, does anyone here have an idea of why it became traditional to pop bottles of champagne, or similar wines, as a way of celebrating something?

 

This is just a guess, but I can see a few possibilities outside of some forgoten ritual based reason.

1) It is reasonable to drink when celebrating.

2) To celebrate something would infer that times were good.

3A) If times are good it would be reasonable to allow some waste, possibly even flaunt the ability to waste. Much like lighting a cigar w/ a 100 dollar bill.

or

3B) You want to celebrate and etiquette is not a priority, but gettin' to the booze is....

 

Through subtle reiforcement and repetition the factors are ignored and tradition steps in; pop the cork if times are good.

 

BTW it is considered poor manners to pop a cork of either wine or champagne in a "fine eatery".

[Qfwfq]

Reasonable points but not applicable only to champagne cork popping, think a bit harder.

 

True point of ettiquette, a professional waiter will pull the cork in a controlled fashion and ready to pour, this is always better when the occasion isn't of the cork popping type and connoisseurs say popping isn't good for the flavour. I myself do one or the other according to the occasion. At the table after a meal, popping would usually be done by the host or MC who deems it appropriate.

 

It's also obvious that some may notice a thing more than others, some will spot a subliminal stimulus and others won't, just like cork popping. To ackowledge its presence isn't always to disarm it, and not always totally.

[Queso]

this has nothing to do with subliminal perception...but i must say for some reason i find "manors" extremely stupid. i don't know how else to say it! why do some people/places expect us to change just for them? yeah, i'll be polite and i wont belch for 20 seconds in a nice restaurant. but when it comes down to elbows on the table, knives over here, spoons over there......that is something i'll fight to the death! why would somebody sitting at a table next to me honestly take offense if i just started chugging a bottle of wine?? am i hurting you? distracting, maybe, but maybe your cleavage is distracting. you put them there, and it is now wrong for me to stare. i'm sorry but i'll chug all the wine i want.

my opinions toward society are most of the time not accepted. ;)

[Fishteacher73]

As a general whole most manners are a system that allows us to interect with each other with a set of pre-determined rules. This set generally allows us to intereact w/o offending each other. There are certain aspects that seem a bit archaic and useless, but just as societies have changed, so have the manners (location is also a big import, what is rude in one part of the world is a compliment in another).

[Qfwfq]

Part of the reason for which cork poppoing isn't good etiquette could originate from the subliminal message itself. Is that a clue? It wouldn't be the only reason because there are more obvious ones. Also, a "fine eatery" implies that wine is tasted rather than used in a ludibrious manner.

 

Another example, different but similar: In many places one should be careful, when holding a bottle, not to tilt it toward someone. Why? I've heard that in such places, if you are the guest of people with a fairly limited mentality, you might be put to the door, hardly any use apologizing and saying you didn't do it on purpouse! To them the message isn't subliminal but rather is interpreted as having a clear meaning. However, the meaning is attributed as what the gesture suggests, no more strongly than what cork popping suggests.

 

my opinions toward society are most of the time not accepted.

How you get along with people is up to you. Whether or not they put up with you is up to them.

[Queso]

How you get along with people is up to you. Whether or not they put up with you is up to them.

 

very true! and seeing as how there at 6 billion or so of us i feel a-ok about that ;)

 

would the use of very high generated frequencies layed in the background of music to partially psychologically impare for a brief moment of time be considered subliminal?

[Fishteacher73]

I think the results of such things are actually purely physical, I know that there is research into acoustical weapons and they have shown that ultrasonic sounds can actually be leathal in rats (and calculated to be so as well in humans with the apropriate intensity and duration).

 

A fantastic article on the development and physical effects is here:

 

http://trauma.cofa.unsw.edu.au/Infrasound/acousticweapons.pdf

[Qfwfq]

would the use of very high generated frequencies layed in the background of music to partially psychologically impare for a brief moment of time be considered subliminal?

as you say psychologically impair, yes, I suppose so, but subliminal is usually meant as a message having some meaning or association so there is a subtle distintion.

 

In personal experience, the odd time I found that I was feeling very uncomfortable while reading something and began to realize it had something to do with past troublesome matters but I couldn't at first think why they had made their return just then. As I kept feeling uncomfortable I had to stop and think it over, eventually I realized that a remark in the text was reminescent of something that had to do with something that had to do with those past troubles, but I hadn't fully noticed the connection while following the line of the topic I was reading.

 

There can be so many things going on in parts of our mind at once, some of them nearer to our awarenes than others. I think that's what's behind the subliminal mechanism.

[Darnok]

AHH

the Elusive subliminal messages

Funny how theres a guy who's doing a project like i am on subliminal perception, i'm doing it for my PIP (personal Interest Project) for Society and Culture here in Australia, and yea

Here's some info i found

 

""Are There Subliminal Influences in Daily Life ?

We are unaware of a great many influences on our behavior. The vast majority of these influences are not hidden in any special sense, but are simply things that we do not generally pay attention to. Social psychologists have identified many of these sneaky forms of influence. Some are fairly obvious, such as the wearing of a uniform or a white lab coat to inspire unearned credibility. Others can be very subtle, nearly undetectable, such as the dilation of our pupils while talking to each other. The effect of these influences on our behavior usually goes unrecognized, even though we could detect most of them if were looking for them. Most do not carry specific verbal information, they carry gut-level emotional messages that can and do sway our decision-making processes, and the way we interpret any verbal messages that accompany them. Some, however, carry very sophisticated verbal messages, such as the influence of myth and metaphor. ""

 

And Finally the Great Leonardo Da Vinci Said

 

Leonardo da Vinci: "If you look at walls that are stained or made of different kinds of stones . . . you can think you see in them certain picturesque views of mountains, rivers, rocks, trees, plains, broad valleys, and hills of different shapes. You can also find in them battles and rapidly moving figures, strange faces and costumes, as well as an infinite number of things. . . . "

 

Cheers

Kon