UFO evidence

[Moontanman]

Here are some photos of UFOs that are not lights in the sky.

 

 

 

1870-Mt. Washington, New Hampshire. This photo is dubbed, "the oldest UFO photograph ever taken." This item was the subject of bidding at Ebay in 2002, when finally the photo was purchased for $385.00 by Samuel M. Sherman, who was the president of Independent-International Pictures Corp. This was originally a "stereo" photograph. Certainly it was difficult to manipulate photos at that time, and remember, there were no flying objects then; at least, not from this world.

 

 

1927-Oregon. Taken in Cave Junction, Oregon. There is some question as to whether the photo was taken in '26 or '27, but nonetheless, if this is an authentic photograph it is incredible. Reportedly snapped by a volunteer fireman.

 

 

1929-SlideWard-Colorado Ward Sawmill, April-This incident is retold by the photographers daughter: "This photo was taken by my father Edward Pline at the sawmill in Ward where we lived at the time. I think it was 1929. I was about six years old then. My father was there to photograph the sawmill for some reason or another, and as he was taking the photo, he described a 'terrible thunderous bellow,' and a large round thing as big as a very large boulder that moved through the air above them. You can see it in the picture. None of the sawmill workers saw the thing in the photo, but they all heard the sound and felt the ground shudder. Later in my life I tried researching the incident at the County Historical Society, but I did not find any references to it. My father passed on a few years after the incident, and I have not found any surviving sawmill workers from that time." Hetty Pline

 

 

Los Angeles, February 25, 1942: 02:25 AM: Alarm sirens installed in the event of a Japanese air raid are started, as flying objects are seen and announced in the sky off the city. A blackout is declared and the anxious and even terrified inhabitants follow the instructions by turning all the lights off. 03:16 AM: Anti-aircraft guns open fire on the unidentified flying objects coming from the ocean, and projector beams are searching the sky. Witnesses observe small objects flying at high altitude, of red or silver-plated color, moving in formation at high speed, and untouched by the AAA salvos. This large object had been hitby many AAA projectiles, according to the reports. The anti-aircraft defence continued to shoot at UFOs without results.

 

 

Scotland, 1947. An alleged UFO picture taken in the Outer Hebrides in Scotland in 1947. It is important to see the original picture on this one to get the full effect. This, to me, is a very good picture of an object that is not identifiable by comparision to any known aircraft today. It is obviously a metallic, two layered object which has never been explained away. A true UFO!

[alexander]

so when are we holding our own, hypography fake your own UFO picture contest?

[Moontanman]

so when are we holding our own, hypography fake your own UFO picture contest?

 

So you are asserting the photos I just posted are fakes? :confused:

[alexander]

Moon, is that a trick question? Ofcourse they are real photos... :confused:

[Moontanman]

Moon, is that a trick question? Ofcourse they are real pictures... :confused:

 

Of all the pictures of UFOs these are the least likely of all to be hoaxes, they were made way before the idea of aliens and UFOs became part of the zeitgeist

[alexander]

ok, first image, much like the 1929 image, are completely open for interpretation, that could be a spec of dust on the lens, a spec of dust on the negative, a scratch on the negative, whatever.

 

Scotland picture, if actually valid, could be a test flight of one of the german saucer prototypes, or a British experimental craft of a similar type, remember that germans made at least a few models live-sized, some mock-ups and there are some scattered opinions that they had a flying prototype that suffered, like the US versions, from major stability issues...

 

Oregon photo looks pretty fake, though it seems to be a clean job, something seems off...

 

And the LA thing, could have been the army/navy/air force testing counter-measures to German radar on the French coastal line, checking signatures, etc. For example if it caused a ruckus here in the states, surely the Germans would do the same, fire up planes in the air, raise alarms, etc, which leaves one a window to slip past somewhere else, where defenses are distracted by the ruckus caused by unidentified and seemingly indestructible objects...

[Moontanman]

ok, first image, much like the 1929 image, are completely open for interpretation, that could be a spec of dust on the lens, a spec of dust on the negative, a scratch on the negative, whatever.

 

Ok, first off, these images are not images that appeared by accident after the film was developed. They have a back story, witnesses, people on the ground that saw and or heard the object.

 

 

Scotland picture, if actually valid, could be a test flight of one of the german saucer prototypes, or a British experimental craft of a similar type, remember that germans made at least a few models live-sized, some mock-ups and there are some scattered opinions that they had a flying prototype that suffered, like the US versions, from major stability issues...

 

There were no German saucer prototypes, this is all old wives tales and has no evidence what so ever to back it up past the conspiracy theorists and others who claim special knowledge but cannot back it up.

 

Oregon photo looks pretty fake, though it seems to be a clean job, something seems off...

 

Seems pretty fake or just too realistic to be possible since UFOs are all hoaxes? Remember that picture was taken in 1927, the idea of UFOs was in the future, the idea of hoaxing UFOs was in the future.

 

And the LA thing, could have been the army/navy/air force testing counter-measures to German radar on the French coastal line, checking signatures, etc. For example if it caused a ruckus here in the states, surely the Germans would do the same, fire up planes in the air, raise alarms, etc, which leaves one a window to slip past somewhere else, where defenses are distracted by the ruckus caused by unidentified and seemingly indestructible objects...

 

Actually no, it wasn't that at all, it could have been war jitters where the sighting a perfectly normal small American airplane set off a bunch of nervous people but there is a back story to this. Objects were seen both at very high attitudes in formation and a very low easy to see but impossible to shoot down object.

 

The embarrassment of not being able to even shoot down the low slow object eventually allowed this to written off as war jitters but objects were seen and this photograph preserves that object as good a night time photograph of a dark object could.

 

These photos are not of course proof of anything but odd photographs have been taken that were almost certainly not fake, what they are is another can of worms. but it also shows that skeptics will always claim two different things about pics, either they are just lights in the sky or the pics are far too good to be real and therefor must be fakes.

 

I chose pics that were so old and dated way b efore the idea of UFOs and the fame associated with it led to wide spread hoaxing. There is of course no way to tell what these images really were this far removed from them in the future but there are modern images that look very similar to these images and it makes me wonder if at least some of is being photographed now are real inexplicable images of something unknown.

 

(BTW, it didn't feel good to have German saucer prototypes just dismissed out of hand did it?)

[alexander]

Ok, first off, these images are not images that appeared by accident after the film was developed.

remember that human brain is wired to see patterns, so something that may seem out of the ordinary often has a very simple explanation, that black square could be a cloud formation. Same thing with the oregon photo, that picture is far too old and far too noisy to say what is on that picture... Also remember that many times stores get made up after something gets found or discivered that doesn't fit.

 

There were no German saucer prototypes

Won't dispute it, as i personally have not seen any, nor come across documentation of any, nor have i searched though. So i am not sure, but you can not be sure either, absence of proof is not the proof of absence; the veil of secrecy behind what German scientists did often was not lifted, even in the post war era, prototypes of flying things of all shapes and sizes were classified and studied and used to make and prototype all sorts of military flying things in the US for over 20 years. Germans made a flying wing that the US wouldn't make for quite some time, Germans made twin rotor helicopters when that sort of transportation was barely being conceived in the rest of the world, so much so that the hull and blade design principals of these machines is still used today. You can't be sure that amongst other things, they were not testing and toying with the idea of an ideal flying object, such a circular wing, something that combined the capabilities of a helicopter with unprecedented maneuverability and the speed of a plane.

 

Also post war era, research labs around the world were going through the third reich documentation building and studying all sorts of new things. I know that there was a program in the US to build a flying circular wing, why not Britain, they, after all, had built the second production jet engine bomber in the world..?

 

Seems pretty fake or just too realistic

could easily be a hoax as well... there have always been creative photographers, and sense of humor and idea of pranks was not invented post 1927...

 

BTW, it didn't feel good to have German saucer prototypes just dismissed out of hand did it?

British saucer prototypes based on German aviation design principals?

And it doesn't matter, lol, i don't really belive that they had any prototypes either, though i am sure they toyed with the idea...

[coldcreation]

I like this answer on ufo's:

 

Neil Tyson talks about UFOs and the argument from ignorance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfAzaDyae-k

 

 

CC

[Moontanman]

remember that human brain is wired to see patterns, so something that may seem out of the ordinary often has a very simple explanation, that black square could be a cloud formation. Same thing with the oregon photo, that picture is far too old and far too noisy to say what is on that picture... Also remember that many times stores get made up after something gets found or discivered that doesn't fit.

 

So no photograph of any kind, no matter how good is anything but a hoax to you?

 

Won't dispute it, as i personally have not seen any, nor come across documentation of any, nor have i searched though. So i am not sure, but you can not be sure either, absence of proof is not the proof of absence; the veil of secrecy behind what German scientists did often was not lifted, even in the post war era, prototypes of flying things of all shapes and sizes were classified and studied and used to make and prototype all sorts of military flying things in the US for over 20 years. Germans made a flying wing that the US wouldn't make for quite some time, Germans made twin rotor helicopters when that sort of transportation was barely being conceived in the rest of the world, so much so that the hull and blade design principals of these machines is still used today. You can't be sure that amongst other things, they were not testing and toying with the idea of an ideal flying object, such a circular wing, something that combined the capabilities of a helicopter with unprecedented maneuverability and the speed of a plane.

 

Also post war era, research labs around the world were going through the third reich documentation building and studying all sorts of new things. I know that there was a program in the US to build a flying circular wing, why not Britain, they, after all, had built the second production jet engine bomber in the world..?

 

Research into curcular aircraft was inspired by UFOs!

 

could easily be a hoax as well... there have always been creative photographers, and sense of humor and idea of pranks was not invented post 1927...

 

So again, no matter how good the photograph is it always fake because there is the possibility of it being fake? No one can possibly be good enough of a witness? Anything outside your own tribal belief system is false no matter what the evidence for it is? This skeptical assumption of course opens a whole new can of worms.

 

The problem here with rabid skepticism is that no proof can be good enough. Much like the rabid believer who thinks that any evidence is good evidence the rabid skeptic is no better. His belief system cannot allow for anything out side his own "tribal" belief system so it cannot possibly be true.

 

Now days with photo-shop and the tremendous allure of fame hoaxes are simply rampant in all areas. UFOs are probably the worst of all but other fields of research from physics to archeology are full of people who want recognition and will lie cheat and otherwise mislead any one they can to get this recognition. This is so rampant that if anyone ever were to discover some physical effect or strange archeology totally outside the norm getting anyone to listen to you would nearly impossible.

 

UFOs are very much the same way but when these photos were taken there were no social drives to fake alien space ships because the idea of alien space ships and allure of fame associated with seeing an alien space ship was not part of their world view. To say it's possible they did as a way of simply dismissing these photos is extending what we know know to the past where it is not part of the reality of the time.

 

The pics themselves stand alone, they offer an untainted look into the past, a look at something that most people especially most skeptics at first assumed was a modern problem that came about when Kenneth Arnold sighed his flying saucers in 1947. There are a great many more such pictures, from then to now.

 

CC I can't watch videos, I need anew INTERNET connection! ARRRGGGH!

[alexander]

So no photograph of any kind, no matter how good is anything but a hoax to you?

 

Bunk! Bunk, I say! Bring me a bag full of UFO's droppings or shut up! ~ref from Prof. Farnsworth, Futurama, the Bigfoot episode.

 

Moon, don't get mad, i am merely playing devil's advocate. I should say that a photograph by itself would not be enough, unfortunately, like just some data is not enough to prove a theory, an experiment with reproduceable results is. So with scientific approach in mind, no, photograph will not be enough. And belief has nothing to do with this, its either proven or it's a theory...

 

Research into curcular aircraft was inspired by UFOs!

Were you there in the 1930s in Germany? It's one of those claim you can't prove and i can't disprove....

[coldcreation]

UFOs are very much the same way but when these photos were taken there were no social drives to fake alien space ships because the idea of alien space ships and allure of fame associated with seeing an alien space ship was not part of their world view. To say it's possible they did as a way of simply dismissing these photos is extending what we know know to the past where it is not part of the reality of the time.

 

The pics themselves stand alone, they offer an untainted look into the past, a look at something that most people especially most skeptics at first assumed was a modern problem that came about when Kenneth Arnold sighed his flying saucers in 1947. There are a great many more such pictures, from then to now.

 

CC I can't watch videos, I need anew INTERNET connection! ARRRGGGH!

 

Ok, forget the video. You're basically claiming that because these photos are pre-1947 that they must be authentic: Since alien space ships were not part of the public worldview before that time. Is that correct?

 

But, the idea that object flying through the sky might be extraterrestrial in origin has been around for centuries, millennia even: from the first sightings of what we now call Halley's Comet.

 

And in 1878, a news article reported that a farmer observed a large, circular saucer-like object flying quickly through the sky (the first known use of the word 'saucer' in association with a flying object).

 

Other strange sighting occurred in 1904, 1916, 1926 (a year with several reported sightings), 1942 and 1946 (when over 2000 strange sightings were reported). Source.

 

So it seems that even before the 1947 Arnold sightings there had already been a slew of UFO claims (of some form of another). That seems to render moot your claim that there was no motive or intention prior to that latter date to document or fake a supposed extraterrestrial flying object.

 

Clearly the ufology "worldview" had already burgeoned.

 

Though Photoshop did obviously not exist yet, retouching daguerreotype plates was common practice since the 1840's.

 

Those supposed UFO shots above could easily have been manufactured, retouched, airbrushed, painted over. The technology existed, as did the impetus to do so.

 

 

CC

[Moontanman]

Ok guys, could have, would have, should have, so we assume that all pics are fakes if they cannot be explained some other way? Talk about self fulfilling prophecy! As I said before to be rabidly skeptical is no better than being a rabid believer.

 

I'll ask it this this way, if a photo of what is clearly not an Earthly aircraft is not proof enough what would be? Before you say a piece of a UFO think for a second, do you really think it's probable pieces fall of interplanetary space craft?

 

I live under the landing pattern of an airport, everyday several airliners and many smaller aircraft pass over head at 200 feet or so, in three years I have never seen a piece fall off one, I'd like to think aliens would build at least as well as we do. How many aircraft per thousand fall out of the sky? Wouldn't you think that aliens would do as well if not better?

 

Radar contact? Oh we have that in spades, Eyewitnesses that are better than what it would take in any court of law. Oh yes any of us could be condemned to life in prison if not death with much less evidence.

 

So what would it take? Land on the white house lawn and call a press conference? I'm serious what would it take to make you believe? If i want to kick a field goal I have to know where the posts really are.

[stereologist]

The summit of Mt Washington is a really nice photo of rocks covered by rime ice. The look of the ice is really really typical for that location in winter. Seen it look like that many times. It looks to me like a stick projecting out of the rime ice.

[Moontanman]

The summit of Mt Washington is a really nice photo of rocks covered by rime ice. The look of the ice is really really typical for that location in winter. Seen it look like that many times. It looks to me like a stick projecting out of the rime ice.

 

I have to agree, taken out of context i had the same thought, again the eye witness who took the photo has to be the deciding factor and since he is no doubt many decades dead it is impossible to establish his veracity.

 

As is usual in UFOs it boils down to do you believe the eye witness. kinda sad really.

[Moontanman]

Those supposed UFO shots above could easily have been manufactured, retouched, airbrushed, painted over. The technology existed, as did the impetus to do so.CC

 

I have to admit there is always the possibility of faking, in anything, not just UFOs, so do we always assume any photos are fakes? a great many have been looked at with the best technology and found to be real or at least not faked. I find it difficult to believe all reports are fakes and many do have very compelling evidence. Things like radar contacts from more than one radar, ground personnel seeing as well as crews in the air both civilian and military in the same sighting.

 

Short of actually having a UFO land can we have any evidence that even suggests we should investigate further? Or do we just assume it's impossible?

 

Is there a scenario that makes sense and allows UFOs to be alien space craft?

[Moontanman]

This is BTW a very interesting link.

 

Unidentified flying object - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia