Black Holes do they eject matter or not?

[Pluto]

G'day from the land of ozzzzzzzz

 

Black holes they eject matter or not?

 

Main stream thinks that black holes are unable to release matter?

 

Than how did the so called primordial black hole release the universe?

 

What do you think of Steven Hawkings Black hole evaporation?

[Pluto]

G'day from the land of ozzzzz

 

Hello Budhha

 

You maybe interested in this link

 

[0903.3162] Instability of Black Hole Horizon With Respect to Electromagnetic Excitations

Instability of Black Hole Horizon With Respect to Electromagnetic Excitations

 

Authors: Alexander Burinskii

(Submitted on 18 Mar 2009 (v1), last revised 31 Mar 2009 (this version, v2))

 

Abstract: Analyzing exact solutions of the Einstein-Maxwell equations in the Kerr-Schild formalism we show that black hole horizon is instable with respect to electromagnetic excitations. Contrary to perturbative smooth harmonic solutions, the exact solutions for electromagnetic excitations on the Kerr background are accompanied by singular beams which have very strong back reaction to metric and break the horizon, forming the holes which allow radiation to escape interior of black-hole. As a result, even the weak vacuum fluctuations break the horizon topologically, covering it by a set of fluctuating microholes. We conclude with a series of nontrivial consequences, one of which is that there is no information loss inside of black-hole.

[CraigD]

Main stream thinks that black holes are unable to release matter?

The answer depends on how one defines the term “black hole”.

 

There are at least 2 common scientific usages of the term:

• In one usage, the term refers only to the volume within an event horizon – that is, inside a black hole. In this case, theory predicts that effectively no matter or electromagnetic radiation can be released from a black hole
  
• In another, the term refers to the entire astronomical object of a black hole, including its surrounding accretion disk – that is, the observable object. In this case, theory predicts and observation reveals that large amounts of matter and EMR are emitted.

Than how did the so called primordial black hole release the universe?

Pluto, you appear to misunderstand the usual meaning of the term “primordial black hole”.

 

It doesn’t refer to a single object that released the universe – “the primordial egg” – but to hypothetical multiple black holes formed shortly after the Big Bang. At one time, these were considered a promising possible explanation for phenomena such as gamma ray bursts, but nowadays, primordial black holes are considered something between very rare to non-existent.

What do you think of Steven Hawkings Black hole evaporation?

I think Hawking radiation, and its description of black hole evaporation, is a convincing theoretical prediction.

 

The quantum physics of it seem sound, and it provides an explanation for why, despite many high-energy events producing conditions that could form low-mass black holes, such objects are not observed, nor appear to capture mater and grow into more massive black holes. Because the time-to-evaporation described by Hawking radiation is proportional to the [math]\mbox{mass}^3[/math], the lifetime of low mass-black holes is unobservably short.

[Pluto]

G'day from the land of ozzzzzz

 

I fully agree with you.

 

but! we know very little of the subject.

[maddog]

Black holes they eject matter or not?

Main stream thinks that black holes are unable to release matter?

Main stream is correct. "Matter Ejection" is actually from the surrounding Accretion Disk.

Than how did the so called primordial black hole release the universe?

This a good and separate question. It is likely the fabric of spacetime may not have exactly the same

context. Important distinction is whether the universe is Closed or Open ?

Look up "Bubble Universes" or papers by Wheeler in the late 80s and early 90s.

What do you think of Steven Hawkings Black hole evaporation?

A theory Hawking though up in the late 70s. Only viable method I know of to get actual

matter from a Black Hole per se. The attributable amount will always be minute and only

a quantum effect and not macroscopic.

 

maddog

[Pluto]

G'day from the land of ozzzzzz

 

Maddog , I think you are jumping the gun by saying mainstream is correct.

 

The stability of the jet from BH has to be explained.

 

The infalling matter compared to the ejected matter is another issue.

 

The type of matter coming out being degenerate in form also has to be explained.

 

Maybe by reading a few papers on INSTANTON search on arXiv and

 

this paper

 

[0902.3610] Axionic dark energy and a composite QCD axion

Axionic dark energy and a composite QCD axion

 

Authors: Jihn E. Kim, Hans Peter Nilles

(Submitted on 20 Feb 2009)

 

Abstract: We discuss the idea that the model-independent (MI) axion of string theory is the source of quintessential dark energy. The scenario is completed with a composite QCD axion from hidden sector squark condensation that could serve as dark matter candidate. The mechanism relies on the fact that the hidden sector anomaly contribution to the composite axion is much smaller than the QCD anomaly term. This intuitively surprising scenario is based on the fact that below the hidden sector scale $Lambda_h$ there are many light hidden sector quarks. Simply, by counting engineering dimensions the hidden sector instanton potential can be made negligible compared to the QCD anomaly term.

 

and

 

[0804.0765] Pion condensation of quark matter in the static Einstein universe

Pion condensation of quark matter in the static Einstein universe

 

Authors: D. Ebert, K.G. Klimenko, A.V. Tyukov, V.Ch. Zhukovsky

(Submitted on 4 Apr 2008)

 

Abstract: In the framework of an extended Nambu--Jona-Lasinio model we are studying pion condensation in quark matter with an asymmetric isospin composition in a gravitational field of the static Einstein universe at finite temperature and chemical potential. This particular choice of the gravitational field configuration enables us to investigate phase transitions of the system with exact consideration of the role of this field in the formation of quark and pion condensates and to point out its influence on the phase portraits. We demonstrate the effect of oscillations of the thermodynamic quantities as functions of the curvature and also refer to a certain similarity between the behavior of these quantities as functions of curvature and finite temperature. Finally, the role of quantum fluctuations for spontaneous symmetry breaking in the case of a finite volume of the universe is shortly discussed.

 

 

I do not think at this moment in time that we do have enough information to explain the intereaction of infalling matter and outgoing matter although there a many theories out there. I could be wrong, but I have not read any at this time.

 

One more point is that sometimes the matter that is ejected from black holes can reach near the speed of light and for this to occur very close to the black hole means magnetic field and connection must take part in the process. Meaning a dynamo influence is required and that type of power can be generated by the core of the black hole.

[maddog]

Maddog , I think you are jumping the gun by saying mainstream is correct.

"Jumping the gun" ?? How. It goes in, it doesn't come out... What is jumping ?

The stability of the jet from BH has to be explained.

Blandford-Znajek Mechanism is the answer. Look it up. In fact, you had sent me the

link to those papers months ago. This mechanism is why jets can be stable. Jets form

when enough matter is falling in fast enough.

The infalling matter compared to the ejected matter is another issue.

No comparison as far as I can see. Infalling matter doesn't come back period. "Ejected"

matter (depending on what you mean) does not compare directly. Two mechanisms

so far are discussed:

1. Hawking Radiation is a Quantum Effect and not Macroscopic in nature can appear on

or near the surface of the Event Horizon.

2. Jets (Blandford-Znajek Mechanism) are streams of elementary particles (electrons,

protons, etc). EM force creates a Huge current flow pushes these particles out at

relativistic velocities away from the poles of Black Holes.

The type of matter coming out being degenerate in form also has to be explained.

Material is likely not degenerate. Neutrons (example of "degenerate" particles) possess

no charge, are electrically neutral so would not "flow" anywhere.

Maybe by reading a few papers on INSTANTON search on arXiv

An Instanton is a Psuedo-particle (not actual) -- see Wiki on Instanton -->

Instanton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

... Neat intro to Twistor (my fave :D ) ... ==> See my Avatar (Robinson Congruence).

[0902.3610] Axionic dark energy and a composite QCD axion

Axionic dark energy and a composite QCD axion

You linked this paper already in another thread, though interesting is not related.

[0804.0765] Pion condensation of quark matter in the static Einstein universe

Pion condensation of quark matter in the static Einstein universe

Another unrelated paper unless you like because it has "static" & "universe" in the title.

I do not think at this moment in time that we do have enough information to explain the intereaction of infalling matter and outgoing matter although there a many theories out there. I could be wrong, but I have not read any at this time.

Classical Mechanics does just fine (at least added with GR once you get to the accretion

disk). I would agree with you that QM & GR would have to merge for smaller mass holes

or approaching the singularity (especially a Naked one).

One more point is that sometimes the matter that is ejected from black holes can reach near the speed of light and for this to occur very close to the black hole means magnetic field and connection must take part in the process. Meaning a dynamo influence is required and that type of power can be generated by the core of the black hole.

Blandford-Znajek Mechanism, already stated that above. Yes, relativistic speeds as above.

 

maddog

[Pluto]

G'day Maddog

 

Fantastic response.

 

Its great that you read.

 

I agree with you to some extent.

 

I will have to come back to you.

 

Just came in for a sec.

[Pluto]

G'day from the land of ozzzzzz

 

I'm not trying to make a point out of this paper.

 

Just sharing the reading

 

A Scenario for Strong Gravity in Particle Physics: An alternative mechanism for black holes to appear at accelerator experiments

Authors: D. G. Coyne, D. C. Cheng

(Submitted on 11 May 2009)

Abstract: A different reason for the apparent weakness of the gravitational interaction is advanced, and its consequences for Hawking evaporation of a Schwarzschild black hole are investigated. Proceeding from some fundamental thermodynamic observations, a simple analytical formulation predicts that evaporating black holes will undergo a type of phase transition resulting in variously long-lived quantized objects of reasonable sizes, with normal thermodynamic properties and inherent duality characteristics. Speculations on the implications for particle physics are explored, and predictions for possible experimental confirmation of the scenario at LHC are made.

 

 

As for the Blandford-Znajek Mechanism is the answer. I would say is one mechanism out of many to explain jet formation and its origin.

 

Although jets have similar properties they vary in origin and size and stability.

 

Right now I'm just allowing all the reading of the day to sink in and relax.

 

Extremely interesting subject. Once you start you become an attic.

[maddog]

As for the Blandford-Znajek Mechanism is the answer. I would say is one mechanism out of many to explain jet formation and its origin.

This may be. I am only speaking to those series on the BZ Mechanism, so eloquently stated

in the papers you linked to back then. The BZ Mechanism was mentioned in that show I

talk about in the thread on Supermassive Black Holes.

Although jets have similar properties they vary in origin and size and stability.

Right now I'm just allowing all the reading of the day to sink in and relax.

Extremely interesting subject. Once you start you become an attic.

The read word above "attic": based on context, I think you mean "addict". On that sentiment, I sympathize. Like you, I am definitely addicted to Black Holes as a subject.

I have been since I first heard about them as a Junior in High School. I think that one topic

propelled me into studying Astrophysics and Physics in college. :)

 

maddog

[Pluto]

G'day maddog

 

Yes you could take that meaning.

 

I was going to use the word addicted, than I find myself in the attic working.

 

Most attic workers are addicted to whatever.

 

I want to come back to the types of mechanisms in due time.

 

Its just that I want to read more on the topic.