[Q] Microwaved water and plants

[paigetheoracle]

Is it true that microwaved water is nutritionally dead and even harmful, killing plants exclusively fed this? ( Have any experiments been done to prove this hypothesis one way or the other? Would try this myself but wife has just broken glass plate, so that we can't us it until replaced)

[freeztar]

My first reaction to this is: Why?

 

Why would you microwave your plant water?

 

To answer your question of whether microwaved water is detrimental to plants, it's important to understand what happens in a household microwave machine. Basically, the waves from the microwave unit excite particles in materials placed in its propagation path. This excitation heats up the material exposed. The heat generated is not hot enough to cause extreme chemical composition changes, that I'm aware of. Do you have a source for this strange claim?

[stereologist]

I suspect this is a false claim. I wonder what nutrients this is supposed to destroy?

 

There are lots of sites claiming that food cooked in microwave ovens is unhealthy. I just looked at one site which has a section with such mixed up thoughts it was downright hilarious. I do not want to suggest being pro or con this concept, but the material was not proof read. It read more like a computer program generated nonsense.

 

Is it possible that this idea came from a health site?

[paigetheoracle]

I suspect this is a false claim. I wonder what nutrients this is supposed to destroy?

 

There are lots of sites claiming that food cooked in microwave ovens is unhealthy. I just looked at one site which has a section with such mixed up thoughts it was downright hilarious. I do not want to suggest being pro or con this concept, but the material was not proof read. It read more like a computer program generated nonsense.

 

Is it possible that this idea came from a health site?

 

It did but I cannot give details as it was something my wife looked up and then told me about.

 

In answer to your question Freestar, it would seem it was done to prove plants are harmed by it.

[stereologist]

I really doubt that there is anything to this claim. The sites that discuss this issue are all into conspiracy freakishness where there is so much money involved no one including the government is going to let on.

 

That's silly. Remember the tire recall that nearly put a company out of business despite the poor evidence that the tires were at fault? The problem no longer happens. What about the plastic bottles?

 

There are quite a few online places that claim that water has memories, knowledge, energy, frequencies, harmonics, and all sorts of other rubbish. Water is water. They say that the water is used 9 times before it flows the length of the Jordan river. It gets used and reused and boiling, industrial uses, evaporation, freezing, and all does not change the fact that all water is still H2O.

[Essay]

I really doubt that there is anything to this claim. The sites that discuss this issue are all into conspiracy freakishness

At the risk of contributing to the conspiracy....

 

I recall some problem with chloramines in water (used in some areas as a method of chlorination).

So I googled: chloramines microwave

...and got a neat hit.

If you have chloramines and perhaps any cyclic contaminants in your water, then microwaves might be a problem.

...of course if you have cyclic contaminants, you've already got some problems....

...but aren't many of those contaminants that they've just discovered (derived from our medicines and cosmetics) --in lots of our drinking water--weird cyclic compounds, like estrogens?

 

Well, whatever... read on:

IMHO #768 (the last step) shows the most likely type of reaction that might happen in tap water.

 

For this site, just scroll down to see the pictures of these molecules (at the numbers listed below [762-831] ).

Indian Journal of Chemistry - April 2005

Indian Journal of Chemistry: Sect. B: Organic Chemistry including Medicinal Chemistry

VOLUME 44 B; NUMBER 4; APRIL 2005

 

# 762

Cobalt (II) chloride or manganese (II) chloride or tin (II) chloride promoted one pot synthesis of dihydropyrimidin-2(1H)-ones using microwave irradiation

IPC: Int.Cl.7 C 07 D 239/00

Various substituted 3,4-dihydropyrimidin-2(1H)-ones have been synthesized in a one pot reaction of b-ketoesters, aldehydes and urea using cobalt chloride hexahydrate or manganese chloride tetrahydrate or tin chloride dihydrate under microwave irradiation in excellent yields without the addition of any proton source or any additive and without any side reactions as observed by Biginelli and others.

 

 

# 768

Chloramine-T mediated synthesis of 1,3,4-oxadiazolyl-1,8-naphthyridines under microwave irradiation

IPC: Int.Cl.7 C 07 D

Rapid and efficient method for the synthesis of 1-(5-aryl-[1,3,4]oxadiazol-2-ylmethyl)-3-(o-chloro-phenyl)-1H-[1,8]naphthyridin-2-ones 5 using chloramine-T under microwave irradiation is described.

 

 

#823

One pot synthesis of 3,4-dihydropyrimidin-2(1H)-ones/-thiones catalysed by zinc chloride: An improved procedure for the Biginelli reaction using microwaves under solvent free condition

IPC: Int.Cl.7 C 07 D 239/00

Zinc chloride efficiently catalyzes the three-component coupling of β-keto ester, substituted aldehyde and urea or thiourea to afford the corresponding 3,4-dihydropyrimidin-2(1H)-ones, the new protocol for the Biginelli reaction under microwave irradiation works in the absence of solvent, the yields are high and the reaction goes to completion within 20-35 sec.

 

 

#827

A domino type one-flask synthesis of 1-substi*tuted-5-aminoimidazole-4-carboxamides and ring transformation to pyrazine under microwave through suitable aminoimidazoliumcarboxamide

IPC: Int.Cl.7 C 07 D 233/54

Reductive heterocyclisation of oximinocyanoaceta*mide 1 affords 1-substituted-5-aminoimidazole-4-car*bo*xa*mides 2. 4c generated in situ from 2i, furnishes a ring expanded 3-(1-amino-1-diphenyl*methyl*amino)*methyleno-2-oxo-6-phenyl-pyrazine 5 with methano*lic alkali under microwave in excellent yield.

 

 

#831

Microwave-assisted deoximation under solvent-free conditions using Bi(NO3)3.5H2O supported onto montmorillonite K-10

IPC: Int.Cl.7 C 07 C

Oximes are oxidatively deprotected by bismuth nitrate supported onto montmorillonite K-10 to the parent carbonyl compound in high yields upon exposure to microwave irradiation in solventless system.

 

...or then there's this:

http://www.dld123.com/about/about.php?id=A26

Water Vitality Experiment

I read an article that mentioned seeds would not sprout in water that had been heated in a microwave oven. This interested me because I have read many reports that food heated in a microwave oven is fundamentally changed, and loses its life-supporting qualities.

The article did not cite the study to support this statement, nor was I able to find it on the internet. So my husband--who is very curious and loves to do science experiments--and I decided to do the experiment and see what would happen.

 

We made six samples of water:

unmodified Clearwater Florida tap water, which contains chloramines and fluoride....

etc....

 

...so who knows what sort of chemistry might be going on.

...so there's lots of science experiments that kids could do at home--for school--just looking for any plant growth/inhibition effects, regardless of actual chemistry.

[freeztar]

I'm still back to my original question: Why? ;)

 

It's interesting for Science sake, but I still do not see any reason one would microwave their plant water. :phones:

 

As far as your references, Essay, concerning the chemical morphing of cyclics via microwave radiation, what power of microwave are they using? Is it close to household microwave units? If so, you may have a point. If not, we have to question the difference. Either way, it's interesting. :D

[Essay]

Yep, I don't know about the power level or frequency....

I'm still back to my original question: Why? ;)

I figured people think that if it affects plants--as a sign that something is going on chemically, then maybe it might not be good for animals.

 

...but I'd rather not think too much about it, or what might happen to the molecules in foods; I like my microwave.

 

~ :)

[stereologist]

We know that microwaves drive chemical reactions. That's what cooking is. It's a chemical reaction.

[Pyrotex]

We know that microwaves drive chemical reactions. That's what cooking is. It's a chemical reaction.

Hello everybody! ;)

You know, it's at times like these that I am so grateful for having what little education in chemistry that I have. It's amazing how just a little knowledge can explain so much in the world, and give you "immunity" to so much pseudo-scientific nonsense.

 

Briefly, microwaves are like light. Visible light packs more punch than microwaves (carries more energy), but basically they are the same. Microwaves (MW) heat up food very efficiently because of one basic fact: the frequency of the MW in your kitchen microwave is chosen to be one of the frequencies that water is sensitive to. Kind of like tuning in a distant radio station only in reverse. The water ("radio") is set on one "station" and can't be changed; the distant radio station is carefully tuned to the same channel so the radio can receive it.

 

Water absorbs nearly 100% of the MW energy in these appliances, and therefore heats up very fast. Other substances just happen to be sensitive to the same frequency, notably sugar and some oils. It is possible that there are others.

 

However, if MW destroyed all nutrients, we would certainly know it by now. That's not the kind of thing that can go unnoticed for half a century! :)

 

From a purely physics and chemistry POV, water that has been microwaved is indistinguishable from water that has not. There is no difference (other than temperature--temporarily). Well, there are no differences in the WATER itself. However, if you boil the water with MW, then you have killed all the bacteria in it, and probably have destroyed the viruses as well. If there were minerals dissolved in the water, the mere act of heating the water could concievably cause chemical reactions. But the WATER itself is unchanged.

 

Voltaire was right, the uneducated mind is capable of believing anything, no matter how preposterous or silly it might be.

[stereologist]

Thank you Pyrotecx for a statement well made.

[paigetheoracle]

I suggested a new forum a few weeks ago that is relevant to this thread - "Experiments that we can all do and show the results of". In other words there is a lot of hot air (microwaved?) when what is really needed is for everyone to go away, microwave some water and feed it to a potted plant, then get back here with the results (proof). Not so?:naughty:

[Pyrotex]

Yeah, it's like measuring pi. Why waste time arguing about theory when you can just get a bicycle tire and a tape measure and measure pi for yourself? :esmoking:

 

I'll volunteer to grow some seeds using only microwaved tap water. ( I will let it boil for 60 full seconds before shutting the MW off, and I will allow the water to cool to room temp before putting it on the seeds or plant.)

[paigetheoracle]

Yeah, it's like measuring pi. Why waste time arguing about theory when you can just get a bicycle tire and a tape measure and measure pi for yourself? :doh:

 

I'll volunteer to grow some seeds using only microwaved tap water. ( I will let it boil for 60 full seconds before shutting the MW off, and I will allow the water to cool to room temp before putting it on the seeds or plant.)

 

Well, if there's doubt, provide the proof.

 

As for your first statement, if you don't apply that to the bicycle tyre, it's just Pi in the sky too!:):):doh:

[freeztar]

Apparently, Snopes has already done the experiment.

 

snopes.com: Microwaved Water - See What It Does to Plants