Vesica Piscis--real Sacred Geometry

[wendy reakes]

Whoa, you guys. I'm feeling picked on here. Back off you heavies!

 

I came here in good faith to ask a question about how I have plotted the white horses on a map and then was able to form a vesica piscis around those points. The question was about the feasibility of the horses being plotted at those points, in relation to plotting any locations of historic interest within a mandorla shape.

 

I realize I didn't explain myself very well(i probably still haven't) but I was surprised that i got Turtles back up just because I corrected her/him on the meaning of the Mandorla as opposed to mandala. I tried rectifying it with a little light banter but again I was talked down to and treated with derision and sarcasm. ('Mr. Mum' - what's that about?)

 

I have already written my book and I know A LOT about the vesica piscis as a sacred symbol. I have argued against your rigid stance, which is my right, so there is no need for you lot to descend upon me like a pack of wolves. There are ways of communicating in a civil manner, and that's what some people on internet sites, who think they know it all, should remember.

 

Needless to say I wont be mentioning this site in my book, when thanking organizations for helping me with my research. And may I add, you have no idea who i am, so perhaps you should have thought about that before you began this tirade against me.

[Qfwfq]

And may I add, you have no idea who i am, so perhaps you should have thought about that before you began this tirade against me.

Uhm... what's that supposed to mean Wendy? Watch out for Divine Wrath to befall us all?

Cool it there. :naughty:

 

Indeed, perhaps you hadn't explained yourself properly. Like, when I looked at your .pdf attachment, I realized your mandorla is based on the right idea, if not quite accurately carried out, but why did you not just say so before getting into such a huff? :rolleyes:

 

Note that it wasn't you correcting Turtle on the word that warranted his revenge, as far as I gathered.

 

By the way, I had blundered. I had assumed "writing mum" to be concise for "writing to mum" and it had struck me meantime that you might mean it literally (which would make it MammaScrivente) once I got the nexus with you being an author. :doh: Silly me, and your Facebook profile even shows it. Nice pic, why don't you have it on your Hypography profile too, instead of keeping anonimity and then saying "You don't know who I am!" to scare folks.

[wendy reakes]

Outrageous!

 

YOU represent Admin and you are trying to reveal my identity out of some sort of vengeful spite. I have a right to anonymity until i know what and whom I am dealing with. I came on here as a guest just to ask a question to a group of people who i thought could help, so what is your problem?

 

I can't believe all this. Are you adults?

 

I'm not trying to frighten anyone, you ridiculous person.

 

Enough now. Go away. I don't want anything more to do with you or this site.

[Qfwfq]

I have a right to anonymity until i know what and whom I am dealing with.

OK then, I guess we don't know who you are and hence we should have just watched our step....

 

Glad we needn't fear what thou shalt bestow upon us now! :hihi:

[Turtle]

Whoa, you guys. I'm feeling picked on here. Back off you heavies!

 

I came here in good faith to ask a question about how I have plotted the white horses on a map and then was able to form a vesica piscis around those points. The question was about the feasibility of the horses being plotted at those points, in relation to plotting any locations of historic interest within a mandorla shape.

 

I realize I didn't explain myself very well(i probably still haven't) but I was surprised that i got Turtles back up just because I corrected her/him on the meaning of the Mandorla as opposed to mandala. I tried rectifying it with a little light banter but again I was talked down to and treated with derision and sarcasm. ('Mr. Mum' - what's that about?)

 

I have already written my book and I know A LOT about the vesica piscis as a sacred symbol. I have argued against your rigid stance, which is my right, so there is no need for you lot to descend upon me like a pack of wolves. There are ways of communicating in a civil manner, and that's what some people on internet sites, who think they know it all, should remember.

 

Needless to say I wont be mentioning this site in my book, when thanking organizations for helping me with my research. And may I add, you have no idea who i am, so perhaps you should have thought about that before you began this tirade against me.

 

 

woof! :dog: i don't have a problem with mandorla; you explained it just fine. mr. mum is about me trying to lighten the mood with some humor. is it ms. mum then?

 

anyway, i understand your mapping proposal just fine. of the 9 white horse locations you mapped, only 7 are inside the almond shape, and as i read it there were at one time 13 white horses in wiltshire and now only 8 are visible.

 

http://www.wiltshirewhitehorses.org.uk/

Wiltshire is the county for white horses. There are or were at least twenty-four of these hill figures in Britain, with no less than thirteen being in Wiltshire, and another white horse, the oldest of them all, being just over the border in Oxfordshire. Most of the white horses are chalk hill carvings, and the chalk downs of central Wiltshire make it an ideal place for such figures.

Of the thirteen white horses known to have existed in Wiltshire, eight are still visible, and the others have either been lost completely, or are in a sense still there, under the turf, but have long since become grown over and are no longer visible.

 

Contrary to popular belief, most white horses are not of great antiquity. Only the Uffington white horse is of certain prehistoric origin, being some three thousand years old. Most of the others date from the last three hundred years or so, though the hillside white horse can be a slippery creature, and the origins of some are impossible to establish with any certainty.

 

in no case do the white horse locations in wiltshire all fall on points of, or defined by, the geometry of the vesica piscis. i have added blue lines from each white horse on land in wiltshire from your map so that every point has a line to every other point. in math this is called a complete connected graph. if there was an aligment as you suggest, then those lines have to match the geometry of the vesica piscis that i have given here. i have attached my additions below.

 

Hi everyone.

I am a writer and I've just completed a novel called 'The Perfects', a contemporary fantasy based on myths and legends in south-west England.

Included within the storyline are many references to the vesica piscis sacred symbol and I was wondering if one of you clever mathematicians here could help me validate a little discovery I made. Bearing in mind this is a fantasy novel, I have used real locations and references, so it's important that my findings are feasible.

I came across the mandorla sketch you have on this thread, and I was attracted to it because of a method I used when charting the white horses in Wiltshire.

I have included my research reference here, so that you could kindly advise me whether or not my findings make sense mathematically, or that I'm simply barking up the wrong tree.

 

so again, and with the utmost kindness and gentility, no mum, you're findings do not make sense mathematically.

[pamela]

Outrageous!

 

YOU represent Admin and you are trying to reveal my identity out of some sort of vengeful spite. I have a right to anonymity until i know what and whom I am dealing with. I came on here as a guest just to ask a question to a group of people who i thought could help, so what is your problem?

 

I can't believe all this. Are you adults?

 

I'm not trying to frighten anyone, you ridiculous person.

 

Enough now. Go away. I don't want anything more to do with you or this site.

There is quite a breakdown of communication here. We are glad to have you here, writingmum. Can we start over? Oft times the written word can be misconstrued as well as the intent. I find your work interesting and would love to see some more posts from you.:)

Facebook is really not the place for anonymity, so please be aware that placing yourself in such an open venue, will lead people there.

[wendy reakes]

Thank you, Pamela for your dignified reply.

 

I have not put myself forward on face book within this site. The only thing i have provided when I enlisted was my email address and full name. Your admin representative must have used those personal details to access other information about me. I find that a complete violation of privacy, especially to publicize it on an open forum discussion such as this.

 

On a lighter note, I appreciate your response, I really do, but I'm not sure i can offer anything of value here. I think it's like a north/south divide, writers one side and mathematicians on the other.

 

 

@...Turtle...Thre's one in Uffington (3,5000 YEARS OLD) I have plotted the most recent ones; the ones created within the past couple of hundred years by modern man because it relates to the story. Perhaps you'll get my point if you ever read my book.

[Turtle]

...

On a lighter note, I appreciate your response, I really do, but I'm not sure i can offer anything of value here. I think it's like a north/south divide, writers one side and mathematicians on the other.

 

 

@...Turtle...Thre's one in Uffington (3,5000 YEARS OLD) I have plotted the most recent ones; the ones created within the past couple of hundred years by modern man because it relates to the story. Perhaps you'll get my point if you ever read my book.

 

if your book falls into my hands, i shall read it.

 

in the mean time, i must take exception to the idea that math & writing do not mix or that they are or must be separate. as a technical writer i am quite vexed that my explications here missed their mark with you. perhaps it is your unfamiliarity with math. :shrug: for whatever reason, it is to my regret as a writer. :(

 

there is also an implication in your words above, insofar as a writer is an artist, that art and/or creativity stand in opposition to mathematics and i take issue with that as well. i mentioned to you earlier that much of the point of this thread was to dispel misunderstandings on the geometry of the vesica piscis - my own most particularly -, but the point too of a lot of it is to have art speak it's own thousands of words on the subject. just so, here's another 3,000 of my words on the vesica piscis. please enjoy them in the spirit in which i created them.

 

[wendy reakes]

For goodness sake! You don't give up do you?

 

You wonder why the discussions have gone this way when your posts are loaded with such venomous sarcasm .

 

Sorry Ms. Turtle. You may have started this thread, but you don't own the vesica Piscis. There are other views out there and the reason i have suggested the difference in opinion with regards to math/writing is because of how you have ignored my offering as a writer and taken the subject as math driven.

 

You're right, I was wrong to suggest that there is a divide on the whole of this site, because i dont know the other members other than the ones who have posted here. Thankfully, i can be confident in knowing that not all mathematicians are as blinkered as you.

 

I'm taking the vesica piscis back from you, Turtle. There is a lot more meaning behind it than just pretty, evenly defined pictures.

[Turtle]

For goodness sake! You don't give up do you?

 

You wonder why the discussions have gone this way when your posts are loaded with such venomous sarcasm .

 

Sorry Ms. Turtle. You may have started this thread, but you don't own the vesica Piscis. There are other views out there and the reason i have suggested the difference in opinion with regards to math/writing is because of how you have ignored my offering as a writer and taken the subject as math driven.

 

You're right, I was wrong to suggest that there is a divide on the whole of this site, because i dont know the other members other than the ones who have posted here. Thankfully, i can be confident in knowing that not all mathematicians are as blinkered as you.

 

I'm taking the vesica piscis back from you, Turtle. There is a lot more meaning behind it than just pretty, evenly defined pictures.

 

woah! :omg: you think my art is pretty.

 

suppose you describe some of that other meaning for us, and give us your sources of information. you have the floor, use it.

[Qfwfq]

Your admin representative must have used those personal details to access other information about me. I find that a complete violation of privacy, especially to publicize it on an open forum discussion such as this.

I'm sorry Mum, but when you tell folks they've no idea who you are and they should have thought about this, it just kinda comes across the wrong way. I suppose you didn't think of that, before saying it.

 

Even without beiong an admin and seeing the email you chose to register with, any dumb fool could google the username that you freely chose to join us with. Doesn't seem useful to complain about privacy. :shrug:

 

On a lighter note, I appreciate your response, I really do,

That's good, we're pleased you say that.

 

You wonder why the discussions have gone this way when your posts are loaded with such venomous sarcasm .

Hmmm, I didn't find anything venomous in Turtles posting. He's been around for years, always with his good natured brotherly conduct, amusing antics and capering. I'm surprised you run into clashes with a well appreciated member like him.

[wendy reakes]

Sigh!!

 

You're doing it again. If you carry on, determined to expose or highlight my identity on this site, i will go further and make a formal complaint to the organizers. As a representative of theirs, you should know better. Like i said before, what is your problem?

 

With regards to my comment about appreciating responses (you know, the ones you keep posting over and over again as if you just HAVE TO prove your silly little point), that was for Vanessa...not for you. If I was talking to you I would say you were most unhelpful and ungracious in your treatment of me. And by the way...it doesn't matter who I am...you shouldn't treat anyone this way.

 

@ Turtle. I am tempted, but it's in my book, and the soap box thing really isn't my style. And don't worry, I am deleting all evidence of your initial VP drawing (I only realized yesterday that it was yours). It's a shame, it would have looked good amongst my illustrations, but we can't win 'em all.

 

just waiting to get banned now....

[Turtle]

Sigh!!

 

You're doing it again. If you carry on, determined to expose or highlight my identity on this site, i will go further and make a formal complaint to the organizers. As a representative of theirs, you should know better. Like i said before, what is your problem?

 

With regards to my comment about appreciating responses (you know, the ones you keep posting over and over again as if you just HAVE TO prove your silly little point), that was for Vanessa...not for you. If I was talking to you I would say you were most unhelpful and ungracious in your treatment of me. And by the way...it doesn't matter who I am...you shouldn't treat anyone this way.

 

@ Turtle. I am tempted, but it's in my book, and the soap box thing really isn't my style. And don't worry, I am deleting all evidence of your initial VP drawing (I only realized yesterday that it was yours). It's a shame, it would have looked good amongst my illustrations, but we can't win 'em all.

 

just waiting to get banned now....

 

 

mmmm...i take back the vesica piscis then, and the floor.

 

following Q's admonition that "...any fool can Google...", i googled "vesica piscis". of "about 48,800 results" this thread appears on the 3^rd page as the 27^th entry. very satisfying for this writer. :D

 

Hmm...so writingmum, you are researching a book and want to know more about the vesica piscis, yet you dismiss knowledgeable people on the subject because...why exactly? It just seems strange to me. Did you feel offended? If so, by what exactly?

 

T, Cool info on DC and the map coordinates...it's new to me and makes for interesting reading and possible experiments using Google Maps.

 

:thumbs_up yep; those masons were & are up to their axes in this 'sacred' geometry. of course this is in part because they were originally really masons building stone structures and they needed to be able to make accurate measures, such as the square root of 3 or 2 in order to actually build anything. since the algebra necessary to extract those values was not around to sufficient accuracy, they simply laid out the geometry at the desired scale, laid their rules along the layout, and marked directly -and precisely- the rule with the desired measure.

 

...

Anyway, if you want to draw the sacred almond with rule and compass... just...... chuck out the rule cuz ya don't need it! :hihi:

The only criterion is that each circle is centred exactly on the circumference of the other one. The result is that, recovering back the dicarded rule and using the two compass pierces and the intersections between the arcs, you can easily draw a pair of exact equilateral triangles which enable to wreak the magic fabled by our Tartaruga here.

 

Arrivederci.

 

i agree. in my original derivation i could have, if not should have, put panel #3 with the bisection AB, as panel #6 just before the ogive arch(es).

 

one last bit on using my images. i grant anyone to make a copy for study or personal display or artistic use, however it is de rigueur to seek & receive my permission to use any of them in any publication or other venture for profit. wendy did poorly in asking permission, but well in deleting my work from hers. i might say without trangressing on any personal confidence, that another lady contacted me here some time ago & sought & received my permission to have one of my vesica piscis flowers included among other sacred geometry symbols on a meditation 'item' for sale. in return i may request, if i wish, to have one of the items sent to me. kudo's to the unnamed lady & here courtesy. :bouquet:

 

roger then; that's a wrap.

[Turtle]

creative commons license; that's the ticket. :)

 

 

Creative Commons

 

then too i think i should clarify that while the vesica piscis is sufficient to generate √2, √3, π, and φ (the golden ratio), it is not necessary. φ can be found from any pentagon, π from any circle, √2 from any square, and √3 from any unit-30º-60º-90º triangle.

 

/forums/images/smilies/banana_sign.gif

[Qfwfq]

creative commons license; that's the ticket.

I'd say Creative Commons is just right up your line, against commercial plagiarism.

 

Say, Tortuga, dime un poco, do you have any idea of what silly little point I kept insisting on trying to prove? :iamsmiling:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD1MHkvQ-Ts

[freeztar]

writingmum, if you'd like to report a post, please click on the report button on the bottom left of any post. Reports are visible to all moderators, administrators, and the owner of the site.

Otherwise, let's all please keep the discussion on topic.

 

:thumbs_up yep; those masons were & are up to their axes in this 'sacred' geometry. of course this is in part because they were originally really masons building stone structures and they needed to be able to make accurate measures, such as the square root of 3 or 2 in order to actually build anything. since the algebra necessary to extract those values was not around to sufficient accuracy, they simply laid out the geometry at the desired scale, laid their rules along the layout, and marked directly -and precisely- the rule with the desired measure.

I read the review of the book you linked to, but there are no specifics there. Have you read the book?

 

I decided to read up on the architects of DC and I found this drawing on wiki from monsieur L'Enfant from back in 1791.

 

 

If the design realized the application of vesica piscis, the plans don't seem to indicate it. Or perhaps I'm just not seeing it. :shrug:

[Qfwfq]

If the design realized the application of vesica piscis, the plans don't seem to indicate it. Or perhaps I'm just not seeing it.

Seems like quite a bit went on between then and now.

http://washington.org/about-washington-dc

 

On google maps it looks like even the rivers aren't quite the same as when the plan was drawn.