Is civilization natural?

[Zythryn]

IMO, civilization is completely natural.

Civilization is a display of social behavior. Many animals show different aspects of social behavior (as mentioned by a number of posters above).

Human society is on a grander 'constructed' scale because we have better mastered the use of tools to modify our environment. One might also add our ability to communicate on a higher level than most/all animals. Although many animals communicate more thoroughly on different levels (scent, and even motion are used by many to communicate where our senses are not as well developed to enable communication in this way).

[lemit]

IMO, civilization is completely natural.

Civilization is a display of social behavior. Many animals show different aspects of social behavior (as mentioned by a number of posters above).

Human society is on a grander 'constructed' scale because we have better mastered the use of tools to modify our environment. One might also add our ability to communicate on a higher level than most/all animals. Although many animals communicate more thoroughly on different levels (scent, and even motion are used by many to communicate where our senses are not as well developed to enable communication in this way).

 

First, I always like it when posters use their own pictures in their avatars. It gives their posts more individuality.

 

As a social animal, you would understand that the way humans form groups and the amenities that they give those groups are all part of our natural socialization.

 

Thanks.

 

--lemit

 

p.s. I hope you like my picture. The backlighting makes it kind of hard to see me in it.

[lawcat]

IMO, civilization is completely natural.

Civilization is a display of social behavior. Many animals show different aspects of social behavior (as mentioned by a number of posters above).

 

I think human civilization is as natural or unnatural as a termite colony.

 

And that is not where the similarities stop.

 

Interesting definition and observation. If we define civilzation as gathering and ordering of parts to achieve stability of whole, then civilization is definately natural. It can be traced to simple cells, and it can be traced to gasses (Na+ Cl- (gases) -> NaCl (crystalyne solid)). This suggests it is natural.

[HydrogenBond]

Civilization is lower than natural, natural, and higher than natural, all at the same time.

 

For example, historical slavery reduced many individuals to below their natural capacity as human animals. They in turn, helped to exaggerate the natural capacity of others with the logistics created. All one would have to do is take away civilization to see that the steady state for all would be far closer.

 

In terms of human behavior, some humans can go unnatural, allowing others to exceed natural, because of civilization. If you take away this feature of civilization, these extremes will merge closer to natural.

 

For example, mass drug addictions are made possible on a large scale because of the logistics created by civilization; farming, manufacturing, transport, distribution, marketing and sales. Without civilization, the entire supply line would be broken with the number of unnatural addicts falling toward natural. But on the other hand, having this large supply of addicts allows other humans to the opportunity to help other humans in need, beyond what animals would do for stranger animals. If we break the supply line and lower the addict supply back to natural, the number of humans who show this higher helpful behavior, also drops by default closer to natural. In nature there is not as much natural opportunity to exceed natural limits.

 

I think it was Abraham Lincoln who said, he never met a man with virtues who did not also have some vices. This is based on an internal contrast created or made possible by civilization, where lower often creates higher. He may have been speaking of General Grant who was a vulgar, drunken, cigar smoking general who produced the best results, even better than those more limited in their vices who could rest on laurels. Grant needed to try harder to make up for where he was lower than natural. How many drunken, vulgar, cigar smoking apes do you know. Animals lack the inner contrast made possible by the codes of civilization, which push them in both ways either internally or externally.

 

I tend to think, civilization averages near natural, over the long term. Swings of unnatural and contrasting better than natural sort of cancel each out over time. If everyone gets better than natural, civilization will create unnatural. If unnatural gets too high, it will also create better than natural, so the long term average remains close to natural.

 

I also think the evolution in civilization is trying to narrow the magnitude of the swing both high and low, until civilization finally becomes a natural part of the earth.