Prophesy II – a social experiment

[Donk]

It’s important to get the technology right, but what about the crew? You’re planning a unique society. Unique in that nobody will join it except by being born, and nobody will leave it other than by dying. A closed society of 300-400 people, changing as those people grow older, and changing as the children grow up. How will those changes be handled? Can any of the problems be foreseen and solved?

 

How will Prophesy be governed? As a ship under way with the Captain as absolute monarch? Democracy? Something else?

 

Will it be a cashless society, with crew drawing what they need from stores? Or cashless for basics, with luxuries paid for? Or fully capitalist, where everything is charged against the individual, including the air they breathe? Who sets wage levels?

 

Is religion important?

 

How do you handle crime? Is laziness a crime – can you tell people “work, or starve”? “Work, or suffocate?”

 

The crew at launch will be all volunteer adventurers, highly motivated to make everything run smoothly. Will they pass this mindset on to their children, or will the next generation see themselves as prisoners on a voyage they didn’t choose to make?

 

There are a lot of hypographers who don’t post on technical matters, but would be a significant asset in teasing out this sort of thing. I know – there’s the deadly danger that Coberst might get involved, :evil: but does anybody expect this voyage to be easy or risk-free?

 

I have a few answers, but I’ll hold them back for now (otherwise this would be more like a dissertation than a post). :)

[TheBigDog]

You sly fellow. All of those issues are core to what I hope to examine and discuss through the story lines. My first story attacks it head on. It tells how the balance is kept, giving a simple set of rules to follow. We then see the problems that develop with how different people see the rules.

 

I have some ideas about how these issues will be handled, and how those solutions will fail, causing the issues to be addressed again. I have been busy working on the first story. I want to have a good character story that introduces us to the ship and the crew along the way, making the mission a backdrop rather than the main plot. After all, the mission is far longer than anyone's lifetime. A very looooong story to be told compared to the whimsy of any particular crew member's life. Finding the fun whimsy is the trick to the story telling. Examining all of the issues is one of the purposes of telling the story.

 

Bill

[Pyrotex]

Wow, Donk. Heavy duty.

I've read Robert Heinlein's novel "Orphans in the Sky" -- a tale of 10th generation voyagers on a spacecraft, where the passengers had long since forgotten the nature of the "world" they lived in. Society had deteriorated to "tribes"; only the local "witch doctor" and his children could read; the plant life had run amuck and most of the modules were filled with "jungle"; people cooked over open fires and hunted rats and guinea pigs for food.

 

On the same theme, another author (???) kept his passengers aware of their world (ship) but they went through massive cycles of tyrany--rebellion, moral puritanism--orgiastic excess, overbreeding--underbreeding, intense education and training--slacker society, personal dignity--high drug use and tatoos, religious zeal--atheism/paganism, social interdependence--hermits and paranoia. From one extreme to the other. This was a better book, a better look at what might happen.

 

All the "social pendulums" swung at different frequencies, so things could get REALLY bad if several of these pendulums all peaked at the "bad" part of their cycle at the same time.

 

Other novels on this theme had the ship divided (unintentionally) into separate "societies" that avoided or even hated each other. The "captains" versus the "recyclers" versus the "technicals", etc.

 

One novel had the ship intentionally separated into multiple pressure shells. You couldn't go from one to the other, without very specialized knowledge and access. There was even one shell that the people in the others did not know about! At least one shell was filled with people who thought they were the ONLY passengers on the ship! The author seemed to be trying to avoid having all the eggs in one basket--put them in multiple baskets.

 

I've even seen one generation ship novel from the point of view of teenagers, just beginning to adjust to the reality of where they are, and the unavoidable responsibilities they will incur. No! You don't get to be an artist and a bum! Your brain scan shows you are qualified to be a waste recycler! Get to work, or get tossed from the ship! Every child went through several "tests". At about 2 YO, they could be "put to sleep" if they had serious mental/physical defects. At about 12 YO, they were selected for the eventual careers they would have. They might also be neutered or euthanized for various uncommon reasons. At about 18 YO, they had to go through their "Rite of Passage" (which was the name of the book). They were put on a planet (as a group) with basic essentials and were left there unmonitored. If they made the pick-up at a designated location and time, then they were "adults" and permanent members of the ship. If not... well, tough... the rules of the Ship are unbreakable; there are no exceptions for anybody.

 

Any more ideas along these lines?

[Donk]

You sly fellow. All of those issues are core to what I hope to examine and discuss through the story lines. My first story attacks it head on. It tells how the balance is kept, giving a simple set of rules to follow. We then see the problems that develop with how different people see the rules.

 

I have some ideas about how these issues will be handled, and how those solutions will fail, causing the issues to be addressed again. I have been busy working on the first story. I want to have a good character story that introduces us to the ship and the crew along the way, making the mission a backdrop rather than the main plot. After all, the mission is far longer than anyone's lifetime. A very looooong story to be told compared to the whimsy of any particular crew member's life. Finding the fun whimsy is the trick to the story telling. Examining all of the issues is one of the purposes of telling the story.

 

Bill

It sounds as if you know where you want the story to go, and I certainly don't want to spoil a masterpiece by adding my own daubs to it. Anything done by an individual is likely to be much better than something done by a committee.

 

Having said that, I can now start daubing with a clear conscience

 

For instance, here's an idea nicked from Arthur Clarke's The City and the Stars:

 

... without some crime or disorder, Utopia soon became unbearably dull. Crime however, from the nature of things, could not be guaranteed to remain at the optimum level which the social equations demanded. If it was licensed and regulated, it ceased to be crime.

 

The office of Jester was the solution which the city's designers had evolved... on rare and unforeseeable occasions, the Jester would turn the city upside-down by some prank which might be no more than an elaborate practical joke, or which might be a calculated assault on some currently cherished belief or way of life.

 

I hasten to add that I'm not bucking for the Jester's job myself. I enjoy watching a good joke unfold (even if I'm the butt of it), but I've rarely been able to organise one myself. I'm sure you'll find several eager volunteers on this forum!

 

The deal would be that the Jester can ask for technical help from anyone, and those people have to keep the whole thing secret. Especially from the officers! :)

 

"Calculated disorder" could work pretty well in keeping the story lively.

[TheBigDog]

My experience is that collaboration helps clarify the disagreement. I may not be thinking of all the reasons NOT to follow my story line. What I actually hope for is that debate in threads like this one gets echoed by the characters. I am looking forward to much discussion with you, but I must warn those who try to follow the story that there may be spoilers found here.

 

Bill

[TheBigDog]

Wow, Donk. Heavy duty.

I've read Robert Heinlein's novel "Orphans in the Sky" -- a tale of 10th generation voyagers on a spacecraft, where the passengers had long since forgotten the nature of the "world" they lived in. Society had deteriorated to "tribes"; only the local "witch doctor" and his children could read; the plant life had run amuck and most of the modules were filled with "jungle"; people cooked over open fires and hunted rats and guinea pigs for food.

 

On the same theme, another author (???) kept his passengers aware of their world (ship) but they went through massive cycles of tyrany--rebellion, moral puritanism--orgiastic excess, overbreeding--underbreeding, intense education and training--slacker society, personal dignity--high drug use and tatoos, religious zeal--atheism/paganism, social interdependence--hermits and paranoia. From one extreme to the other. This was a better book, a better look at what might happen.

 

All the "social pendulums" swung at different frequencies, so things could get REALLY bad if several of these pendulums all peaked at the "bad" part of their cycle at the same time.

 

Other novels on this theme had the ship divided (unintentionally) into separate "societies" that avoided or even hated each other. The "captains" versus the "recyclers" versus the "technicals", etc.

 

One novel had the ship intentionally separated into multiple pressure shells. You couldn't go from one to the other, without very specialized knowledge and access. There was even one shell that the people in the others did not know about! At least one shell was filled with people who thought they were the ONLY passengers on the ship! The author seemed to be trying to avoid having all the eggs in one basket--put them in multiple baskets.

 

I've even seen one generation ship novel from the point of view of teenagers, just beginning to adjust to the reality of where they are, and the unavoidable responsibilities they will incur. No! You don't get to be an artist and a bum! Your brain scan shows you are qualified to be a waste recycler! Get to work, or get tossed from the ship! Every child went through several "tests". At about 2 YO, they could be "put to sleep" if they had serious mental/physical defects. At about 12 YO, they were selected for the eventual careers they would have. They might also be neutered or euthanized for various uncommon reasons. At about 18 YO, they had to go through their "Rite of Passage" (which was the name of the book). They were put on a planet (as a group) with basic essentials and were left there unmonitored. If they made the pick-up at a designated location and time, then they were "adults" and permanent members of the ship. If not... well, tough... the rules of the Ship are unbreakable; there are no exceptions for anybody.

 

Any more ideas along these lines?

These look eerily familiar to some of what I am thinking. I don't think I want to charge off to the extreme because in the end I want to demonstrate that the whole idea can be successful rather than display it as a reckless exercise in futility.

 

Bill

[TheBigDog]

****WARNING!!! SPOILERS!!!****

 

The first story that I am writing shows a seemingly successful mission with a few dark secrets that become exposed as the story unfolds. It takes place 71 years after the ship is launched and it is well outside our solar system.

 

A body is found, the ship's chief doctor. He is famous for being the first BOB, person Born On Board the ship shortly after it began its exit from earth. He was trained as a doctor by the first generation of inhabitants and is famous back on earth and admired by all the members of the crew. All of the medical staff have been trained by him, and he has published texts used on earth.

 

His death is by suicide. There is a tradition on the ship of the elderly ending their lives on their own terms when they feel they are no longer able to contribute to a society that lives on the balance of survival or collapse. The doctor was a vocal opponent to that particular tradition, and there are those who are shocked that he took that route, but in the end they believe that it was his his sense of duty that brought him to take his own life.

 

Everyone believes the story except two people; a first year medical apprentice who is not happy with inconsistencies she sees, and the person who committed the murder. As she exposes the clues that lead to the killer she discovers even darker secrets hidden among the crew of the Prophesy, and must risk her own life and others in deciding between exposing them all or helping to continue at cover up as old as the mission itself.

 

*** End jacket cover***

 

All of this takes place within the workings of the ship. We get to know the culture, and how it has evolved since leaving orbit. We learn about lives and careers, about dreams beyond the ship, and coming to terms with such a confined existence. About people who do horrible things for the best reasons.

 

When the ship leaves earth it has a crew of balanced ages. From toddlers to retirees evenly distributed. The population is 326, exactly half men and women. Each woman is required to have two children during her lifetime. When a person dies there is a decision made by volunteers and lottery to pick the next woman who will become pregnant. She is allowed to have one child naturally with another crew member, and one by artificial insemination from a very large supply of sperm donated from earth. This will provide a mix of racial diversity while allowing men on the ship the opportunity to father children. By following this practice the population will remain roughly the same all the time.

 

There is a council that makes decisions for the ship. They are elected. Children are allowed to vote after they have passed tests indicating that they understand the science of the ship, her ecosystem, and her mission. Uninformed voting would do no good. I am still working on how the council is structured in alignment with the life support systems, mission, and governance requirements. Suffice to say there is room for politics even on the smallest world.

 

Our protagonist is a teen who is about ready for testing. She is young and a little naive, so we get to learn with her that not is all as it appears. And the utopia she has been learning about has flaws. She is making the transition from being a kid to being an adult. From being cared for, to being responsible. Like taking a car trip as a family, everyone rides in the car, but the kids get to nap in the back, Dad has to stay awake and drive, gas up the car, carry the heavy stuff into the hotel, and then get the least sleep at night. We are with her as she is learning what it means to drive, and to get less sleep, and carry the heavy luggage. And in the midst of that there is a murder, a cover up, and worse...

 

Bill

[Donk]

So far, so very good!!

 

You've answered one of my questions right there, BD, with your elected council. Let me answer a few more, and see if it ties in with your thinking.

 

Take a look at our current setup. Very few people do worthwhile jobs! By that I mean work that actually produces something - food, manufactured products, well people (doctors, nurses), educated people (teachers). Behind them you have an army of drones. They make sure everybody's doing things right, or not doing things wrong (managers, officials, police). They sell you stuff (advertisers, media). And so on.

 

In a society of less than 400 people, everybody knows everybody else. Crooks don't stand a chance, so police aren't anything like as necessary. You still need organisers, but their job is simply to hand out tasks, not to send reams of statistics to head office or government departments. Everybody knows who makes what, and how well. There goes the advertising industry!

 

What I'm saying is that you'll have a society with very few drones, and where functions are automated wherever possible. Five hours work a week from everybody should be plenty. People won't be defined by their job anymore, but by their hobby (or hobbies). Maybe they write. Or make music... sculpture... Or maybe they concoct furniture out of pieces of scrap, or make moonshine with a vacuum still.

 

I'm guessing that a large proportion of the crew will have a science-based hobby of one sort or another. An agronomist would borrow telescope time; an astronomer would cross-breed tulips to create new varieties. And then the two of them would go for a beer afterwards and pick each other's brains.

 

You could do all that and still have a lot of time for partying! :)

 

That's the upside. There has to be a downside, of course. Human nature (and narrative imperative ) demands it. Your medical apprentice learns one of them early: "News from Earth" is doctored. Not lies, exactly, but every bulletin leans heavily towards disasters - plague, riot, earthquake, flood, famine, tsunami... Simple psychology: make life on Earth look bad, people are much happier to be off it. A logical solution to the problem, but nobody likes being manipulated. It makes them ask the crucial question "what else aren't they telling us?"

[Pyrotex]

What I'm saying is that you'll have a society with very few drones, and where functions are automated wherever possible. Five hours work a week from everybody should be plenty. People won't be defined by their job anymore

Yes, this is the way that science fiction would go.

 

However... I have a data point for you. NASA. The new spacecraft being designed right now is the Orion. Looks like an Apollo module on steroids--holds 6 instead of 3. I have a detailed design of the ECLSS pinned to the wall in front of me. (It's gorgeous, by the way) ECLSS = Environmental Controls and Life Support System. Pronounced, "EEK-less".

 

It is complicated, you can imagine. Valves everywhere to hold back the vacuum, use the vacuum, switch to alternate systems, provide backup O2 and N2 sources, venting to vacuum. No automation. ;) No computer to control the valves. The computer only monitors pressures and temperatures and settings. It sounds alarms when necessary. No automation. More than half the valves are motorized. But no automation.

 

What gives? In one word: reliability. A complex system of valves controlled by trained people is more reliable than an identical system controlled by a computer program. The people are cheaper to train than an equivalent computer program would be to write. And as long as people are doing the controlling, they will understand what is going on. If a computer automation program snafus, in a ship where everybody spends most of their time on hobbies, then nobody understands what is going on. Nobody knows that valve MRV02-02 needs to be switched over. Everybody is at the mercy of some programmer back on Earth who, three years ago, had a fight with his girlfriend, got really hammered, and came into work the next morning with a freakin hangover and a bad attitude.

 

Computers monitor and alert. Computers automate sets of human/mechanical commands that would take too long to do by hand. Computers can even be manually commanded to handle certain emergency conditions automatically. But a human being is always in the loop. A human is in EVERY loop. Every human has a job, a set of switches, a body of knowledge and a responsibility.

 

FWIW.

[TheBigDog]

FWIW? Don't be so modest Pyro.

 

That is great insight. Another philosophy I am following is one of less safety sometimes being safer. I have seen statistics on how traffic areas that almost look chaotic are statistically safer than ones that are extremely well controlled because people stop paying attention when they don't feel that they need to. They consume safety rather than leaving it as a cushion. So people will need to be careful. The ship is not foolproof, but people are trained to not be foolish.

 

I have been torn in my mental experiment about how busy everyone will be. I plan on solving this by having the mission planners, the first generation crew, develop a culture of continuous education. There are specialists required for the mission, and people work as apprentices to learn a specialty, be it medical, or agriculture, or software development, or settlement, or space operations, or government, or maintenance, teacher, scientist, astronomer, geologist, etc etc etc; all things that are critical to the long term success of the ship. The apprenticeship may be a couple of years long followed by a period of being an journeyman. One may become a master of a trade and teach it to others. But the important thing is that everyone rotates. During your lifetime you move from one area to the next, taking the body of knowledge you have gained and using it to help improve how other areas are done. The crew will through a consciously developed culture be compulsive seekers of knowledge and skill. Disinterest cannot be allowed to dull their ability to achieve their purpose.

 

Bill

[freeztar]

I really like the idea of crossing professions and mutual learning. It seems essential for continued stimulation aboard the Prophecy.

 

Good ideas all around. I'm humbled and hope I can add something in the future, writing-wise.

[Donk]

What gives? In one word: reliability. A complex system of valves controlled by trained people is more reliable than an identical system controlled by a computer program. The people are cheaper to train than an equivalent computer program would be to write. And as long as people are doing the controlling, they will understand what is going on. If a computer automation program snafus, in a ship where everybody spends most of their time on hobbies, then nobody understands what is going on. Nobody knows that valve MRV02-02 needs to be switched over. Everybody is at the mercy of some programmer back on Earth who, three years ago, had a fight with his girlfriend, got really hammered, and came into work the next morning with a freakin hangover and a bad attitude.

It used to be said that if NASA were to build an air-conditioning system for your house it would take ten years, cost a hundred million, and you'd barely have room to get indoors. They have a certain reputation for over-engineering...

 

If they've learned that astronauts can be more than just passengers and that the human brain is better for dealing with the unexpected than any amount of backroom brainstorming, then it sounds like they're finally getting it right :shrug:

 

But I expect it's just a passing phase :)

[freeztar]

It used to be said that if NASA were to build an air-conditioning system for your house it would take ten years, cost a hundred million, and you'd barely have room to get indoors. They have a certain reputation for over-engineering...

 

If they've learned that astronauts can be more than just passengers and that the human brain is better for dealing with the unexpected than any amount of backroom brainstorming, then it sounds like they're finally getting it right :shrug:

 

But I expect it's just a passing phase :)

 

Not that this has anything to do with your post, but it might play into long-lived spaceship crew (and how that is influenced on Earth)

 

Hulu - Defying Gravity: Threshold - Watch the full episode now.

[Boerseun]

I like this thread.

 

It was mentioned a few posts back that part of the narrative could be that the news from Earth is doctored. This can very easily be done, seeing as no individual will have access to the outside of the ship, in other words, there will be no radio amateurs. All news will have to come from the Ship's Dish.

 

As far as the social aspects of this is concerned, what's wrong with a little propaganda?

 

Showing them how life sucks on Earth might just motivate them to go on looking for a new planetary paradise. What good, if any, would peaceful shots of green meadows and palm-strewn sandy beaches do?

 

A few generations down the line, those palmy beach shots might just make the new kids want to mutiny and turn around - until they realize there's no fuel to do it with, and it will never happen in their lifetimes, anyway. So the first crazy nutter decides on mass-suicide, 'cause that'll show those bastards back on Earth something...

[TheBigDog]

I like this thread.

 

It was mentioned a few posts back that part of the narrative could be that the news from Earth is doctored. This can very easily be done, seeing as no individual will have access to the outside of the ship, in other words, there will be no radio amateurs. All news will have to come from the Ship's Dish.

 

As far as the social aspects of this is concerned, what's wrong with a little propaganda?

 

Showing them how life sucks on Earth might just motivate them to go on looking for a new planetary paradise. What good, if any, would peaceful shots of green meadows and palm-strewn sandy beaches do?

 

A few generations down the line, those palmy beach shots might just make the new kids want to mutiny and turn around - until they realize there's no fuel to do it with, and it will never happen in their lifetimes, anyway. So the first crazy nutter decides on mass-suicide, 'cause that'll show those bastards back on Earth something...

I was thinking of the same thing from the other perspective. In many ways the hopes and dreams of Earth are being carried with the ship. There was a global investment in this venture. The crew is filtering the reality of life on the ship from those on earth; presenting a picture of what earth wants to hear. But you are right, it would be happening from both ends. One of the things I was thinking of was that on the ship clothing becomes if not totally optional, at least very minimal by earth's standards. But having a bunch of nudists representing earth is not the image we want portrayed, so in visual communications with earth the crew wears familiar clothes to maintain an image, but otherwise go around in little more than loin cloths and what protection may be needed for certain jobs. Instead of private facilities there are public baths that become a social gathering point where mutual grooming helps to relieve stress and becomes a sort of social grace. This is a small town of 326 people ranging from infants to elderly, so there are few secrets in town, but what like Vegas, what happens on the Prophesy stays on the Prophesy (an unwritten rule). The fear on the ship is that without the proper public image the earth may stop investing in other interstellar ships, setting back the evolution of man by unknown years.

 

Bill

[Pyrotex]

It used to be said that if NASA were to build an air-conditioning system for your house it would take ten years, cost a hundred million, and you'd barely have room to get indoors. ...

YES!!!

 

But it would run for 30 years on a single pair of D-cell batteries, and could withstand temperatures from -175 F to 195 F, vacuum to 10X Earth normal pressure, and would recycle your piss into perfectly clean water and ice cubes. :hihi:

[Pyrotex]

I was thinking of the same thing from the other perspective. In many ways the hopes and dreams of Earth are being carried with the ship. There was a global investment in this venture. The crew is filtering the reality of life on the ship from those on earth; presenting a picture of what earth wants to hear...

Hmmm...

300+ people would be loose of ALL Earthly constraints and expectations. All moral "rules" might collapse to just "Do no harm."

 

The goals of the "village" might change radically. Who's to stop them? They may decide to stop in the Oort cloud, mine a comet, and genetically alter themselves so they can tolerate the cold and vacuum. More realistically, they may decide on a eugenics program to breed humans for intelligence and emotional maturity. Wow. No more politicians.

 

They may arrive at their destination in 1,000 years and NOT be what WE would call "human" at all! :hihi: They might develop their own esthetic of what a human body should look like and be able to do. A thousand years is about 50 generations. We developed bulldogs and miniature poodles from wolves on Earth in about 100 generations. :D

 

Children can read by the age of two and are adept at mathematics by three. Huge brains, steerable ears, feathers instead of hair, bodies adapted for low to null gee, prehensile tails, thin short legs with feet that look and operate like hands. Musicians will write music for four hands! Guitar or piano. Guitar AND piano! Dancing and wrestling will be totally reinvented.

 

Everyone will have genitals of both genders and can bear young. Puberty occurs by seven; full growth by eight. Everyone has perfect skin and lovely breasts! The pictures sent home to Earth will have to be TOTALLY faked!!!