Another religious thread

[Queso]

First off I would just like to say I know this IS a science forum, but there is something troubling me and I don't know where else to turn to.

Occasionally, at extremely random times, perspective and realization just dawns over me. I realize this is the only life, that I will die. Yeah, this is still hard...probably always will be, but that's just me.

 

Anyway...I honestly can not believe how far religion has come. It's everywhere, it truly amazes me. I feel left out because I havn't read the bible, but at the same time...I almost don't even want to bother. I feel like it's a complete waste of time. I know that no reading is a waste of time, well, almost all...it's knowledge. But...should I care?

As most of you probably know (from the discussion here on hypography) that I do not have a religion, nor do I want one.

 

About a year ago I decided I was going to devote my life to try to open peoples' eyes when it comes to all this...but one argument after another made me realize that after 2,000 or so years, I don't even have a chance.

I guess I'm just struggling between caring, or not caring about religion and all the false hopes around the world. But...it makes them happy. From the people I have talked to throughout the world, they all say almost the same things, something along the lines of:

"how could you live like that? i would be so sad all the time."

I appologize for my rambling, just needed to get some thoughts out.

[zadojla]

At your age I thought much the same. I do not care about "belief"; it doesn't answer any question I feel the need to ask, and it seems to me like believing in Santa Claus (which I never did either). Experience has taught me not to argue with people unless attacked. You won't convert them. (Think how hard it would be to convert a Red Sox fan to a Yankees fan; convincing someone to change their religion is harder and just as pointless.)

I am not an atheist the way Free Thinker is. I go to church every week with my family and I go through the motions out of courtesy. (I do refuse communion, and I will not recite the Apostles' Creed.) Just let the other folks be, and they will likely let you be. You are not their keeper.

[zadojla]

BTW, aren't "religious threads" what priests wear?

[Tormod]

No need to read the bible (although feel free - both the bible and the q'uran are good reads).

 

Read up on religious thought instead. Read philosophy. Read what religious people of different factions write, and what atheists write. Read books on varieties of religious thought etc.

 

Right now I am reading the book "God?" which is a discussion between a creationist and an atheist. Interesting stuff. It's good to learn how different people see things.

[Tormod]

I am not an atheist the way Free Thinker is. I go to church every week with my family and I go through the motions out of courtesy.

 

Somehow I doubt you'd be able to drag Freethinker into a church.

 

Edit: I misread your post...did not see the "not" in there. Sorry. ;)

[bumab]

Another good book is "a new kind of christian" and "the story we find ourselves in" they address the problem many people have with relgion being outdated and anti-intellectual and anti-scientific. the second specifically deals with evolution (among other things) and creationism (it's a pro-evolution book)

[zadojla]

Somehow I doubt you'd be able to drag Freethinker into a church.

Not without a squad of Marines!

My family are church members, and participate fully. I feel that church attendance is something that that should be done as a family. I started when beccareb was little, because I didn't want to confuse her or hurt her feelings. There are families in the church whose non-member parent will not cross the threshhold for any reason, even for performances involving the children. That is wrong, and unkind.

[Queso]

so tormod, you've read the q'uran?

my father is a very stubburn man, and everytime the news talks about terrorists, he says something like: "it's because they say in q'uran to hate and kill white people."

i have found this so hard to believe, in fact i don't...and for the longest time i've been wondering if there is anything relatively close to that?

[bumab]

From my understanding, it says those who die in a holy war go straight to paradise, but it doesn't really define what a holy war is. some interprit it as any action against non-believers (terrorists), some define it differently, like maybe ww2, or defense of one's land, or whatever. It was my impression that that verse is taken out of context by people who are looking for some reason to condem islam.

 

i could be wrong, it's been a while since i've looked through it.

[Queso]

I bet you anything if you walked through an airport security holding a book of the q'uran, you would be tackled to the ground so fast. (well at least in america)

 

It was my impression that that verse is taken out of context by people who are looking for some reason to condem islam.

that makes a lot of sense.

 

i'm actually going to the airport tomorrow...wish i had a copy to test this idea.

[Tormod]

I feel that church attendance is something that that should be done as a family.

 

That is a very loyal thing. For us it is a non-issue. Neither Yvonne nor I are religious, nor do we belong to the state church (yeah, Norway is a bit archaic in that sense). My parents are atheists, Y's parents are not particularly interested, although she has aunts and uncles who frequent the church.

 

So we actually do not let our daughters attend church at all. But if they come home at 12 and start talking about it then we'll have that discussion then. I may be an atheist but I do not require my children to be.

[maddog]

Orbsycli,

 

I was born Catholic, though have kinda' gone my own path. As a teenager, I was curious and read from

the bible (a Catholic one), though I admit at that time, I mostly read only Genesis and Revelation. I

didn't much pay attention to the other books unless I had to. In college, I read from the Koran (english

spelling) and the Bhagavad Ghita and a couple of other religion books too. Recently, I was out of work

for over 19 months. A lot of soul searching I did. In that time I was able to finish the bible. Some books

were harder than others. I did find solace. I did come to find harmony in some form or fashion and

see that if the notion of "spirit" could be defined in some physical way, a lot of what is written in all the

religious books would be reduced to different interpretations of the same thing. The Indian notion

that we are energy and we have a body could coincide with the notion of a Christian soul. Different

people have different beliefs. I ask are they all that different. As atheists would say don't need it.

I say fine. This is kind of a personal adventure anyway. We are all going through life experiencing

the events in our life for whatever purpose we have it mean. Very personal. Some nothing, some

something. This is all by choice. ;) ;)

 

Maddog

[paultrr]

I agree about letting one's children make up their own minds on things. My kids, via my Ex do attend Church. I have no problem with this and I have had discussions with at least two of my kids on the subject of religion. I'm not certain if I myself fit the actual athiest case. I simply believe that nature itself is our creator and that as such we are a product of natural processes. If I were to side with a stance I would agree that all religions, at least the good ones, tend to have the same set of truths.

 

My parents where decended from Norway and I'm well knowledgable of the Luthern Church over there. My Dad's family was the Skadburg and Hoiland group mostly out of Egersund and Stavanger area. Can't do the proper two dots that belong in the Hoiland name here. Donald Hoiland, an artists over here, is related to my Fathers side of the family. When I was young I used to speak a little Norsk and still understand some basic things. My Great Uncle, now long dead was Jacob Skadburg and a Doctor. I always thought and still do that Norway is a wonderful county.

[C1ay]

The bible is just another history book to me. A scribe of the way these men saw the world in their time...

[lindagarrette]

The bible is just another history book to me. A scribe of the way these men saw the world in their time...

The bible is not a history book The OT is a religious document compiled, mostly by Catholics, from ancient Hebrew tribal legends, customs, and geneology. There is very little corroborating evidence for any of the events, places or things in it. The NT does not even perport to be historical. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Jesus Christ, central figure in the document ever existed.

[C1ay]

The bible is not a history book The OT is a religious document compiled, mostly by Catholics, from ancient Hebrew tribal legends, customs, and geneology. There is very little corroborating evidence for any of the events, places or things in it. The NT does not even perport to be historical. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Jesus Christ, central figure in the document ever existed.

 

I never claimed it was an accurate history book. I do think much of it was written with the intent of recording the era and passing on the view of the writer.. I have met numerous religious zealots that take much of it literally as a historical record.. I can't say that I view any of it as an accurate, literate recording of history. I only call it a history book because of the way the religious community sees it.

[bumab]

There is no evidence whatsoever that the Jesus Christ, central figure in the document ever existed.

 

There are several lines of evidence- archaelogical evidence that supports biblical locals, texts by roman historians (Josephus and others), texts from Jewish figures, etc etc. It's hard to argue the person of Jesus did not exist. There's lots of other things to argue without resorting to that ;)