Do we feel forces of Dark Matter?

[randomname12345]

I've been thinking a lot about Dark Matter. I know we observe bodies that feel the gravitational pull of Dark Matter, and we feel the pull of gravity from these observed bodies. However, is there proof that our point of reference feels the gravitational pull of the Dark Matter?

 

This might be a ridiculous question, but your input is appreciated.

 

-s

[Bo]

As far as i know: no; the hint for dark matter arises at a large scale; here on earth the effect is negligible. (we're also not able to sense the presense of aplha centauri or so here on earth)

 

Bo

[Odin]

What kind of dark matter are you referring to gamma rays, cosmic wind,

[Fatstep]

What kind of dark matter are you referring to gamma rays, cosmic wind,

 

Gamma rays are not dark matter. Dark matter is something we cannot see because it emits no radiation that we can observe with current technology. Gamma rays are waves of very high energy electromagnetic radiation.

[Odin]

you cant see gamma rays unless there is another ionic field present to show that an electromagnetic energy was passing through

[Fatstep]

Yes but dark matter has no radiation, gamma rays do.

 

Gamma Ray

A type of high-energy radiation that is different from an x-ray.

Medical Terminology & Drug Database

 

Dark Matter

Matter not visible to us because it emits no radiation that we can observe, but it is detectable gravitationally. A small fraction of it is baryonic, eg dim stars, cool gas, etc.

Glossary Test

 

By definition gamma rays are not dark matter.

[Jay-qu]

Gamma and cosmic rays are radiation - and are massless! so they would not exert any gravitational forces.

[Odin]

Gamma Rays are induced from Beta-Decay or Fusion Reaction. This means that the unstable particle emits the ultrashort electromagnetic wave. The wavelengh is massless but the particle that emitted it has a mass.

Both the particle and wavelength is invisible, but the existance of gamma radiation can only be detected by the presence of another ionic field. Radiation Detectors work on that level by emitting static noise. When gamma rays pass through the earths atmosphere the rays are compromised by the ionic charges of those ions.

[Fatstep]

Gamma Rays are induced from Beta-Decay or Fusion Reaction.

 

Actually that is not true. Gamma decay can and does happen all of the time without beta decay.

[modest]

I do not understand why you bring in the magnetic fields into this discussion?

 

The 'dark matter' I spoke of was the separated electric charges trying to recouple to form the HA again.

It is the electric force that is causing this dark matter enhancement of gravity.

 

The Andromeda Galaxy is approaching our galaxy at about 60 Kms per second.

This is because of gravity, not the magnetic fields.

 

My opinion is that they are not going to collide because they are moving off line in eliptical orbits.

 

Phys

Thanks for straightening Snoopy out.

 

Mike C

 

Yes Mike C,

I am sorry for sounding dismissive. Your proposition that dark matter is an effect of the coulomb force is interesting. Even the equations are strikingly similar:

 

[math] F=K_c\frac{Q_1Q_2}{r^2} [/math]

 

and...

 

[math]F=G\frac{M_1M_2}{r^2}[/math]

 

However, I believe there is a big difference in the practical application of these forces that makes them too different to be mistaken for one another. In Coulomb's law Q1 and Q2 can be positive or negative, with Gravity there is only one sign. This makes all the difference in the world (or galaxy).

 

Not only do electric charges cancel each other and become null in macro-systems: there is also the consequence of how this would apply to your theory.

 

If the center of the galaxy were to carry one large, net electric charge while the rest of the galaxy carried another this could not be mistaken for gravity. Here on earth every atom is affected by gravity like an attractive force. This means nothing on earth 'feels' the gravitational attraction of the center of the galaxy more than any other thing. In effect - we would not know the center of the galaxy were there if we were in a box.

 

Your theory suggests positive and negative ions are either pushed or pulled toward or away from the center of the galaxy. The real-world consequence of this can not be mistaken and it is something we don't observe here on earth. In effect - we would feel or could deduce the center of the galaxy's location from inside a box as some charged particles are attracted to it and others of the opposite charge are pushed away.

 

So no, I think dark matter cannot be a consequence of the coulomb force.

 

- modest

[Mike C]

Yes Mike C,

I am sorry for sounding dismissive. Your proposition that dark matter is an effect of the coulomb force is interesting. Even the equations are strikingly similar:

 

[math] F=K_cfrac{Q_1Q_2}{r^2} [/math]

 

and...

 

[math]F=Gfrac{M_1M_2}{r^2}[/math]

 

However, I believe there is a big difference in the practical application of these forces that makes them too different to be mistaken for one another. In Coulomb's law Q1 and Q2 can be positive or negative, with Gravity there is only one sign. This makes all the difference in the world (or galaxy).

 

Not only do electric charges cancel each other and become null in macro-systems: there is also the consequence of how this would apply to your theory.

 

If the center of the galaxy were to carry one large, net electric charge while the rest of the galaxy carried another this could not be mistaken for gravity. Here on earth every atom is affected by gravity like an attractive force. This means nothing on earth 'feels' the gravitational attraction of the center of the galaxy more than any other thing. In effect - we would not know the center of the galaxy were there if we were in a box.

 

Your theory suggests positive and negative ions are either pushed or pulled toward or away from the center of the galaxy. The real-world consequence of this can not be mistaken and it is something we don't observe here on earth. In effect - we would feel or could deduce the center of the galaxy's location from inside a box as some charged particles are attracted to it and others of the opposite charge are pushed away.

 

So no, I think dark matter cannot be a consequence of the coulomb force.

 

- modest

 

You do not quite understand what I am saying.

The central regions of the clusters have stars in the galaxies that are blasting out 'electrons' during their flaring activity as I explaned in our Suns flaring activities.

So you have a lot of positive ions left in the galaxy that makes it positively charged in relation to the central electron cloud.

So the galaxies surrounding this central cloud are all 'tugging' on it from all sides. So the cloud is stabalized because of this 'tugging' from all sides.

 

But the enhancement of gravity is only partially done because it is not a 'full' force coulomb enhancement because of the huge neutral matter content that is the gravity content.

 

The ratio of the electron content in the central cloud is very small in proportion to the gravitational content.

So you just get a partial enhancement, not the kind that contains the charges in the hydrogen atom.

 

Mike C

[freeztar]

You do not quite understand what I am saying.

The central regions of the clusters have stars in the galaxies that are blasting out 'electrons' during their flaring activity as I explaned in our Suns flaring activities.

 

You're neglecting to account for the proton component of the solar wind.

[PhysBang]

I've been thinking a lot about Dark Matter. I know we observe bodies that feel the gravitational pull of Dark Matter, and we feel the pull of gravity from these observed bodies. However, is there proof that our point of reference feels the gravitational pull of the Dark Matter?

 

This might be a ridiculous question, but your input is appreciated.

 

-s

The standard theories of dark matter have the dark matter fairly homogeneously distributed around a galaxy, at least as far as our solar system is concered. By the mathematical theorems of Newton (and their relativistic equivalents) this means that, as far as we are concerned, it has no net effect.

 

There is some effect on the rotation of our solar system through the galaxy, though, and this might be detectable.

[modest]

So the galaxies surrounding this central cloud are all 'tugging' on it from all sides. So the cloud is stabalized because of this 'tugging' from all sides.

 

Are you saying the electrons are in deep space outside any galaxy? Perhaps at the gravitational center of a cluster or supercluster of galaxies? This is not what I understood before. Galaxies are all mostly positively charged and there is a great mass of electrons between them? Is this right? Or, do you mean the center of our galaxy when you say "central cloud"? Please be specific - you've got me making my own theories over here to explain yours :phones:

 

- modest

[CraigD]

The 13668 thread has been languishing without any replies since 12/13/07. It contains a reference to an interesting paper, http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0704/0704.0003.pdf .

This paper describes the evolution of earth moon system based on the dark matter with non Newtonian physics method and fits the data very well. It claims that the dark matter causes the moon receding and the earth’s rotation slowing, shows that the receding and rotation rate change follows a special relationship, and predicts that the Mars’s rotation should be slowing also. The model may not be perfect but the idea seems inspiring. I think that the measuring the Mars’s rotation rate change and comparing it with the prediction is the only way to test if this model stands. Does anyone have such reliable data about the Mars’s rotation rate change?

In current cosmology, the dark matter and dark energy is a very hot topic. It is believed that there is about 85% or more matter in the universe is called dark matter and dark energy, which is currently invisible. The Newtonian physics may be limited because it is only based on the visible matter which is about 15% or less of the matter of the universe. How the dark matter and dark energy interact with the visible matter and influence the physical behaviors of the visible matter objects will be interesting . The future physics including the dark matter and dark energy will be very romantic.

[Mike C]

You're neglecting to account for the proton component of the solar wind.

 

The solar flares blast all the electrons out of the Sun except the 2 inner electrons in these heavier elements.

There may be some positive ions (remaining nucleuses) blasted out of the Sun but IMO, these could be very small in quantity.

and their velocities would be much slower to cause them to be captured within the galaxy whewreas, the electrons would have sufficient velocity to leave the galaxy.

 

Mike C

[Mike C]

Are you saying the electrons are in deep space outside any galaxy? Perhaps at the gravitational center of a cluster or supercluster of galaxies? This is not what I understood before. Galaxies are all mostly positively charged and there is a great mass of electrons between them? Is this right? Or, do you mean the center of our galaxy when you say "central cloud"? Please be specific - you've got me making my own theories over here to explain yours :lightning

 

- modest

 

Yes, in the 'cluster' central regions (gravitational center) that are usually devoid of galactic matte.

These electron clouds are detected by 'xrays' since there would be a lot of interaction between them to create these radiations.

It is possible that a few positive ions could be present but very low in quantity to the electron numbers.

I did not say or imply that they are in the central regions of the individual galaxies.

Electrons are blown out of the galaxies in all directions but the ones in the drection of the central cluster regions are approaching each other and therefore stop in this region to form the clouds.

Electrons are continually escaping this region but it is being replenished by new arrivals continuously to maintain a high concentrations in that region to enhance the gravity as I have said.

 

Mike C