A phone conversation with a Muslim missionary

[rodgertutt]

A PHONE CONVERSATION WITH A MUSLIM MISSIONARY

 

A Muslim missionary called me on my ministry phone in response to my newspaper ad “HELL IS NOT ENDLESS.”

(I have sent out many hundreds of packets of literature to people who responded to these ads that I have put in two of Toronto’s largest newspapers since 1981.)

 

The Muslim missionary said “Unless you convert to Islam you WILL go to hell.”

 

I said, “That’s what some Christians say if I don’t convert to Christianity.”

 

He said, “But the difference is that Islam has the truth.”

 

I said, “That’s what some Christians say about their beliefs.”

 

He said, “After you die you will learn that the Koran is the word of God and Islam has the truth.”

 

I said, “I guess I’ll just have to wait until then to find out for sure.”

 

He said, “But it will be too late for you then.”

 

I laughed and said, “That’s exactly what some Christians say.”

 

I don’t think he thought it was funny.

 

I then expected him to say what a Mormon missionary said to me in Montreal. “At the judgment, as you are being cast into hell, I will point my finger at you and say, ‘I told you so. I gave you a chance but you didn’t take it and now it’s too late’.”

 

It seems that we are supposed to believe that millions of Muslims, by sheer “accident” of birth, are born into a belief system that teaches their children that even to consider Christianity to be the truth will land them in an eternity of suffering in hell.

 

I believe that the horrific false doctrine of endless suffering in hell causes more suffering here on earth than any other idea that people believe. That is why it gives me such great pleasure to offer people the urls that contain evidence that the Bible does not support such a concept of God.

 

Just Google up TENTMAKER and use the search engine at the top of the front page. Type in a key word from any argument or Bible verse and ten articles will appear refuting the idea that the Bible teaches eternal torment or annihilation. Then click to the next page and ten more articles will appear, and so on and so on for many pages. Or click on [link removed] Jesus saves all mankind, the truly Good News, Christian universalism--Ultimate Reconcilation--Doctrine of Inclusion--Restitution of all--Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, Gospel of the Bible

 

Also Google up

THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES

or

ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST

Or

UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY

to find A LOT of scriptural evidence that God has both the ability and the intention to eventually save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved.

Or click on

[link removed]Savior of the World Series

or

[link removed]absolute assurance in jesus christ

or

[link removed]Universal Salvation University

[JMJones0424]

But you're wrong, all wrong. I and KNOW you are wrong. There is only one true god, and his name is the great Flying Spaghetti Monster. Open your eyes to the TRUTH.

 

"The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry."

[rodgertutt]

But you're wrong, all wrong. I and KNOW you are wrong. There is only one true god, and his name is the great Flying Spaghetti Monster. Open your eyes to the TRUTH.

 

Is he dripping with garlic sauce as he flies?

You probably offer him meatballs during your worship of him eh?

No doubt he would love that. :eek2:

[Moontanman]

Is he dripping with garlic sauce as he flies?

You probably offer him meatballs during your worship of him eh?

No doubt he would love that. :eek2:

 

Roger this is science forum, please read the rules, and take it someplace else. We do not discuss the merits of one religion over another here. You have no more evidence of your religion than JM has of the flying spaghetti monster or any more than the naked women on the beach drawing down the power of the moon goddess. At least they are fun to watch. If you feel a strong need to preach your version of religious reality i suggest you find a religious forum and have at it.

[rodgertutt]

Roger this is science forum, please read the rules, and take it someplace else. We do not discuss the merits of one religion over another here. You have no more evidence of your religion than JM has of the flying spaghetti monster or any more than the naked women on the beach drawing down the power of the moon goddess. At least they are fun to watch. If you feel a strong need to preach your version of religious reality i suggest you find a religious forum and have at it.

 

This is the "theology" portion of the science forum.

And I am providing evidence that a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible does not support the idea that God will let anyone suffer forever.

Many people are glad to find that out.

 

That particular information enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown

1966-78 caused by my fear of a god who would let anyone suffer forever.

I'm 70 years old now.

 

I thought this info was appropriate for this section of this forum.

If I am mistaken, I apologize.

[Moontanman]

This is the "theology" portion of the science forum.

And I am providing evidence that a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible does not support the idea that God will let anyone suffer forever.

Many people are glad to find that out.

 

Again your interpretation of the bible is no more "correct" than any other. Iron age inspired belief in the supernatural is no better or worse than any other religion.

 

That particular information enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown

1966-78 caused by my fear of a god who would let anyone suffer forever.

 

Again i am glad for you, my lack of belief in religion has brought me great comfort but that is not a part of this forum.

 

I'm 70 years old now.

 

Congratulations, I'm 54, it's old age wonderful?

 

I thought this info was appropriate for this section of this forum.

If I am mistaken, I apologize.

 

I suggest you read the rules carefully, religion discussions generally turn into knock down drag religious arguments and in the real world even wars and death. lets keep that off this forum please.

[rodgertutt]

Again your interpretation of the bible is no more "correct" than any other. Iron age inspired belief in the supernatural is no better or worse than any other religion.

 

Again i am glad for you, my lack of belief in religion has brought me great comfort but that is not a part of this forum.

 

Congratulations, I'm 54, it's old age wonderful?

 

I suggest you read the rules carefully, religion discussions generally turn into knock down drag religious arguments and in the real world even wars and death. lets keep that off this forum please.

 

I did read the rules.

 

I'm not arguing with anyone Moon.

I'm just presenting a point of view that helps some people.

 

I'm glad for you that you have found great comfort.

 

Is the "theology" portion of this fourm only for "non-religious" members of the forum?

Just wondering.

[Buffy]

I did read the rules.

You're being told how we interpret them, which is the only thing that really matters. Sorry.

I'm not arguing with anyone Moon.

No, but you are promoting a view point and tacitly implying it is superior without any evidence whatsoever.

I'm just presenting a point of view that helps some people.

That's this issue: it is your personal "point of view" or "belief". That is offensive to people who have other beliefs.

 

It would be similar to someone coming to your web site and filling your guest book with "points of view" that taut the Talmud or the Koran as the more "correct" word of God.

 

Because of this, we expressly disallow discussions like the ones you have started.

 

If you have your own personal interpretation of what should go into a "Theology" forum, you've got your own web site and you're welcome to promote it there.

 

Your posting here is interpreted as being theft of our high search engine ranking to promote your own web site and views that you agree with.

 

Although you may have missed it in the Bible, theft is a sin.

Is the "theology" portion of this fourm only for "non-religious" members of the forum? Just wondering.

No. Plenty of our members are religious. We just go to Temple, Church, Mosque or Italian Bistro's to "share" our faith.

 

If you think we should conform to your definition of Theology, that's your opinion, but it's incredibly obnoxious and rude to march into someone's house and tell them what they ought to do.

 

Painting my age with beauty of thy days, :phones:

Buffy

[rodgertutt]

You're being told how we interpret them, which is the only thing that really matters. Sorry.

 

No, but you are promoting a view point and tacitly implying it is superior without any evidence whatsoever.

 

That's this issue: it is your personal "point of view" or "belief". That is offensive to people who have other beliefs.

 

It would be similar to someone coming to your web site and filling your guest book with "points of view" that taut the Talmud or the Koran as the more "correct" word of God.

 

Because of this, we expressly disallow discussions like the ones you have started.

 

If you have your own personal interpretation of what should go into a "Theology" forum, you've got your own web site and you're welcome to promote it there.

 

Your posting here is interpreted as being theft of our high search engine ranking to promote your own web site and views that you agree with.

 

Although you may have missed it in the Bible, theft is a sin.

 

No. Plenty of our members are religious. We just go to Temple, Church, Mosque or Italian Bistro's to "share" our faith.

 

If you think we should conform to your definition of Theology, that's your opinion, but it's incredibly obnoxious and rude to march into someone's house and tell them what they ought to do.

 

Painting my age with beauty of thy days,

Buffy

 

Well, I just can't agree with you that guiding people to evidence that the Bible does not teach that God will let anyone suffer forever is being "obnoxious and rude."

I'm not insisting that people believe the evidence.

I just want them to know that the evidence exists.

Had I know that as a youth I never would have had a twelve year breakdown 1966-78 over my inablitity to love an endless-hell god and the accompanying paralyzing fear that produced in me.

I'm 70 years old now.

[Buffy]

Well, I just can't agree with you that guiding people to evidence that the Bible does not teach that God will let anyone suffer forever is being "obnoxious and rude."

I'm not insisting that people believe the evidence.

No, but you're marching into their living rooms, standing in front of the TV set and screaming.

 

That's what is "obnoxious and rude."

I just want them to know that the evidence exists.

You have your own web site to do that on. Why do you insist on stealing our ranking, and demanding our member's listen?

 

We don't receive wisdom; we must discover it for ourselves after a journey that no one can take for us or spare us,

Buffy

[rodgertutt]

No, but you're marching into their living rooms, standing in front of the TV set and screaming.

 

That's what is "obnoxious and rude."

 

You have your own web site to do that on. Why do you insist on stealing our ranking, and demanding our member's listen?

 

We don't receive wisdom; we must discover it for ourselves after a journey that no one can take for us or spare us,

Buffy

 

If I'm "screaming" anything, it is that God loves everyone equally, and no one is going to suffer forever just because they were not a Christian, or a Muslim.

 

I do have my own website.

 

Everyone is equally welcome to ignore everything I say on this forum.

I don't "insist" that anyone listend to anything I say.

 

If someone is helped by what I have said, that's a bonus. If not, that's ok too.

 

For example, one poster already told me he found peace by rejecting religion altogether.

I respect that and I understand exactly where he is coming from.

[Buffy]

If I'm "screaming" anything, it is that God loves everyone equally, and no one is going to suffer forever just because they were not a Christian, or a Muslim.

"God loves everyone" is proselytizing by definition. It does not matter if you do not find it offensive.

Everyone is equally welcome to ignore everything I say on this forum. I don't "insist" that anyone listend to anything I say.

You make us hit the "mark as read" button. That's barging into our living room and standing in front of our TV. Called trespassing if we ask you to take it elsewhere, even if we invited you in the door.

 

You appropriate our bandwidth and get free advertising for your links. That's stealing.

 

Behavior like this is considered at the very least anti-social.

If someone is helped by what I have said, that's a bonus. If not, that's ok too.

But we don't exist to empower you to do that for free.

 

If you want us to promote your personal views, your website or websites you agree with, we have very low advertising rates.

 

History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives,

Buffy

[paigetheoracle]

I see your point Roger. To simplify, what you're saying is that you are not against any other religion but you are against the viewpoint expressed in 'any religion' that isolates and destroys others, by making them think that God is hell and wants you to bat for one side as opposed to another (divisive not unitive). This is what the Gnostics forwarded as an idea, when they were still a force to be reckoned with - which is, that there is a demiurge or semi-godlike being, who doesn't want you to think for yourself or love your enemies as a philosophy but kill them instead (If you are not with us, you are against us, mentality). Whether you believe God as a being exists or not or how you interpret that being is another question altogether. The question here is "Is God a being of love that unites the cosmos or one of hate that divides mankind against itself and other creatures?" In other words are we as a community going to stop fighting and grow up or forever be touting for business as religious separatists? (Religion is not a football game of my side against yours but a team effort of us versus our own stupidity and fear in my opinion - science and religion should no more be at each others throats than one religion should be against another and they are not in truth but they are when we start lying to each other about our motives and what reality is: Now pay money into my phonophon, care of the Great Oz!)