Easter

[Queso]

Well, happy easter to all of you I GUESS.

so today is the day jesus resurected himself, am i correct?

 

if this is true....how long did he stay ressurected? where did he go afterwards? did he just say "i'll be back" and now everybody is waiting for him to come back, or..?

 

somebody please enlighten me on this magical holiday for me, thank you.

 

p.s. so far i don't like the concept easter.

 

p.p.s. i don't believe in "Ressurection" or coming back from the dead....at all...that's why i am very confused about this holiday.

[C1ay]

Well, happy easter to all of you I GUESS.

so today is the day jesus resurected himself, am i correct?

 

if this is true....how long did he stay ressurected? where did he go afterwards? did he just say "i'll be back" and now everybody is waiting for him to come back, or..?

 

somebody please enlighten me on this magical holiday for me, thank you.

 

p.s. so far i don't like the concept easter.

 

p.p.s. i don't believe in "Ressurection" or coming back from the dead....at all...that's why i am very confused about this holiday.

 

Happy Easter to yourself.

 

I don't particularly dislike Easter, it just has no meaning to me. It means quite a bit to my wife, she's catholic. My kids are kind of indifferent about it. I don't believe in resurrection either.

[Queso]

I just tried to do some research on the web about easter itself. the only thing i could find was "it's a day to celebrate the ressurection of jesus"

 

this doesn't tell us ANYTHING.

 

and somebody just tried telling me that it's not just christianity that believes this, it's written in history that jesus was ressurected.....i am not buying any of this.

[Biochemist]

"it's a day to celebrate the ressurection of jesus"

This is a fair reduction to a single phrase. The resurrection itself was a reasonably complicated fulfillment of a long list of items that were prophesied beforehand for about a thousand years. It carries of lot of metaphorical, philsophical and spiritual load. It is sort of tough to squeeze it into a single short sentence.

...and somebody just tried telling me that it's not just christianity that believes this, it's written in history that jesus was ressurected.....i am not buying any of this.

The historical evidence for the historicity of Jesus and the resurrection is strong. Many folks will argue with this (notably lindagarette on this site) but even a majority of atheist scholars attest to Jesus' historic reality. Many of these atheist scholars also agree that the evidence for the resurrection (or at least an empty tomb) is strong as well.

 

I was going to reference Antony Flew as one of those atheist scholars, but he recently converted to thieism (specifically Deism).

 

The apostle Paul (who wrote most of the new testament) did not regard belief in the resurrection as an article of faith (per 1 Cor 15), but rather as a fact. When Paul's comtemporaries asked him whether the resurrection actually happenned, Paul suggested that those people with questions go talk to the people who saw it. The faith issue (from Paul's standpoint) was not the resurrection per se, but related to whether the resurrection meant something important.

 

Paul thought it did.

[Queso]

The historical evidence for the historicity of Jesus and the resurrection is strong

 

um.

resurrection is totally, completely, impossible.

yeah, a lot of people will argue this because to say he was resurrected is extremely absurd.

 

yeah great, today is a day for feasting, to boost the economy a little bit. that's wonderful, i don't care.

 

and even if his alleged resurrection is metaphorical, NO BODY KNOWS THAT. they take it seriously, and don't question otherwise. they, being the majority of people i have talked to in my life.

 

one more thing. yeah i'm getting religious again, here i go:

all the supernatural stuff that allegedly happened back then around his time...never EVER happens NOWADAYS! it goes to show how people were taken advantage of with the facts hundreds of years ago. and now that we have widespread global media, and advances in science, if someonw claimed something like that happened now, we would know it was totally fake, another thing to put in the tabloids.

[C1ay]

I just tried to do some research on the web about easter itself. the only thing i could find was "it's a day to celebrate the ressurection of jesus"

 

this doesn't tell us ANYTHING.

 

and somebody just tried telling me that it's not just christianity that believes this, it's written in history that jesus was ressurected.....i am not buying any of this.

 

Everything I've run across on the web refers to it as a christian holiday. For additional reading try Wikipedia's entry on Easter or perhaps search the Vatican's online library.

[TeleMad]

The historical evidence for the historicity of Jesus and the resurrection is strong. Many folks will argue with this (notably lindagarette on this site) but even a majority of atheist scholars attest to Jesus' historic reality. Many of these atheist scholars also agree that the evidence for the resurrection (or at least an empty tomb) is strong as well.

 

Let's break that down. For the non-religious folks, they believe a man named Jesus lived when the Bible says he did and that this man named Jesus was crucified, and some of those same people believe Jesus's tomb was later found empty. Nothing Godly about any of that. One can believe everything in there - all of the history stuff - and still not believe in the supernatural baggage attached to it.

 

Biochemist: I was going to reference Antony Flew as one of those atheist scholars, but he recently converted to thieism (specifically Deism).

 

In a nutshell, a very old philosopher who was tricked into changing his position, which was largely his own fault for blindly accepting the one-sided distortions he was fed, then said he was just too old to look at the evidence anymore to see just how badly he had been misled or if he needed to change his position again.

[Queso]

...and some of those same people believe Jesus's tomb was later found empty.

I LOVE IT! they use that as evidence he was resurrected?!!?!?

ever heard of grave diggers???

pssshhh, that made my day! thanks telemad.

[Biochemist]

I LOVE IT! they use that as evidence he was resurrected?!!?!?

ever heard of grave diggers???

pssshhh, that made my day! thanks telemad.

Orb- You really ought to be a little more careful before you make fun of historical events that have been well researched for thousands of years by thousands of smart folks.

 

The empty tomb issue is relevant because the tomb was guarded by a contingent of Roman Centurian guards. The guards were placed there because the Jewish leadership at the time was actually afraid that the followers of Jesus would abscond with the body. That part is referenced in the Biblical record.

 

They went to the Romans (Pilate, as I recall, but I am not sure if he made the decision) and asked for the Centurian guard contingent. You might not be aware of it, but the automatic penalty for a Centurian losing a prisoner was death. Summary execution. Centurians were also usually killed for falling asleep on duty. Typically they were killed where they slept.

 

Well, guess what. The entire contingent of Centurians was killed because the body was "lost". The execution of the guards is not in the Biblical record, it is recorded in the non-Christian (or anti-Christian) contemporaneous histories. The Bible does record that there was "no small disturbance" among the guards when they discovered that their prisoner was lost. I am not surprised they were disturbed. They were sentenced to death.

 

It is a little difficult to explain how anyone could have secreted the body away in the presence of the guard contingent. Apparently, it happenned. Hmmmm.

 

Again, a majority of atheist philosophers and historians acknlowledge the difficulties in getting around the evidence for an empty tomb.

[Biochemist]

...a very old philosopher who was tricked into changing his position, which was largely his own fault for blindly accepting the one-sided distortions he was fed...

TM- Antony Flew was a leading atheist philosopher for about 5 decades. He has debated philosophers of all ilks in open forums on many occasions. It is a little disingenuous to suggest he was "tricked" in thinking something.

 

Amazing.

[IrishEyes]

They went to the Romans (Pilate, as I recall, but I am not sure if he made the decision)

I will write more on this later, after my house has emptied a bit. Orb, you've asked lost of good questions, and I'd like the chance to answer some of them, if you don't mind. But it'll have to be when the in-laws are gone, and the nieghbors have gone back home...

However, in my abscence, Biochemist seems to be doing a great job.

And yes, it was Pilate that stationed the Roman guards at the tomb, at the request of the Jewish leaders, as they remembered Jesus saying that He would rise again. Disbelieving His claims of being the Son of God, they still were worried that He might actually rise. Hmmm, now that is skepticicm!

[Queso]

honestly, not to be rude what-so-ever, but i can say whatever i want. that's the beauty of the internet, of speach, of conciousness, and all that.

that's pretty amazing that it was well guarded and what-not, but that just gets me thinking it was an "inside job"

who knows how it happened.

all i know, is jesus' decomposing, unconcious, rotting, rancid, mangled body did not rise from the dead, and escape his tomb.

i don't have difficulty with this empty tomb 'evidence' at all, and even if it was researched for a couple thousand years, and they are still puzzled, that shows NOTHING of resurrection.

[lindagarrette]

Orb- You really ought to be a little more careful before you make fun of historical events that have been well researched for thousands of years by thousands of smart folks.

 

What historical evidence? There is a Bible story and hearsay. I agree that there has been much research but it has turned up nothing. If you know otherwise please enlighten us.

[Biochemist]

Let's break that down. For the non-religious folks, they believe a man named Jesus lived when the Bible says he did and that this man named Jesus was crucified, and some of those same people believe Jesus's tomb was later found empty.

Thanks for corroborating, TM.

[Queso]

p.s. even if jesus did resurrect himself, and escape his glorious tomb, i think they would have been able to smell a rotting corpse with excessive wounds from a mile away. :)

[Biochemist]

that shows NOTHING of resurrection.

I was not trying to prove the resurrection. I was just defending the fact that a large number of atheists agree that the historical record supports the historicity of life of Jesus, and that the tomb was empty. I was referencing atheists becasue they are (presumably) not biased in favor of those positions. The evidence for the resurrection (out of the historical record) is, I think, weaker. Only about 500 people saw Jesus rise (according to the Biblical record), so the historical record from those witnessess is intrinsically more difficult to corroborate from external sources.

[Biochemist]

p.s. even if jesus did resurrect himself, and escape his glorious tomb, i think they would have been able to smell a rotting corpse with excessive wounds from a mile away. :)

Are you arguing against your own case here?