Easter

[Biochemist]

What historical evidence? There is a Bible story and hearsay. I agree that there has been much research but it has turned up nothing. If you know otherwise please enlighten us.

There actually is quite a bit. I would like to take your question seriously, so I will need to find some concrete references that you can critique. Give me a couple of days to find some.

[Queso]

Are you arguing against your own case here?

come on don't be so literal, i was lightening up the thread with a disgusting joke. sheesh.

[Biochemist]

honestly, not to be rude what-so-ever, but i can say whatever i want.

Orb- I wasn't suggesting that you can't say something (and I did not take your point as rude). I was just suggesting that a lot of people have put a lot of good thought into this, and it not easily dismissed.

...that just gets me thinking it was an "inside job"

...and that has been investigated as well.

...all i know, is jesus' decomposing, unconcious, rotting, rancid, mangled body did not rise from the dead, and escape his tomb.

I think this would pretty much describe why folks who believe it happened regard it as a miracle.

[Biochemist]

come on don't be so literal, i was lightening up the thread with a disgusting joke. sheesh.

Sorry. I can never tell if the little smily faces imply sarcasm. I didn't want to ignore your point.

[motherengine]

gotta love hatred. why even post this attack? i am curious if anyone can give a mature rational justification for posting an anti-religious sentiment in a science forum? i have argued this before here and i still cannot understand why crass hatred and intolerance is so accepted and common place on a site that claims to be concerned with science. you either believe in god or you don't. to constantly mock those who do exposes a disturbing hostility that seems all the more pathetic to me because it is displayed by self descibed 'intellegent people'.

[Queso]

i hope i have not mocked anybody with my opinions.

[pgrmdave]

The Resurection isn't proven, and, in the minds of those who believe, it doesn't really need to be proven. That is what faith is - accepting something as true even if there is no evidence. Whether or not it is proven as true or untrue is irrelevant to me. Whether or not it was a spiritual or physical resurection does not matter to me either. It may seem strange, but I don't need to know, I simply need to accept it.

[Queso]

need, or want to accept it?

[Biochemist]

The Resurection isn't proven, and, in the minds of those who believe, it doesn't really need to be proven. That is what faith is - accepting something as true even if there is no evidence....

I know I might be beating a dead horse here, but I really don't think anyone in the new testament ever expected anyone to take the resurrection by faith. I will grant you that it takes some investigation to confirm its veracity in 2005. But the faith issue in the new testament was NOT whether Christ rose. The faith issue was whether it meant something. Whether you believe the story or not, the disciples were profoundly affected by seing Christ after His crucifixion. They certainly were not wondering whether he rose (except Thomas, until he actually saw Him). They were wondering why this happened. The apostle Paul never expected people to take the resurrection by faith. Paul used the fact of the resurrection as a proof case to confirm that Christ was who He said He was. These arguments would be senseless if you have to accept the resurreciton by faith.

 

So, in 2005, we have a little work to do (in terms of historical verification) to build a case for the resurrection. But that is not a faith step. It is an investigation.

 

Key point: Believing Christ rose does NOT make anyone a Christian.

[Biochemist]

why even post this attack? i am curious if anyone can give a mature rational justification for posting an anti-religious sentiment in a science forum?

I appreciate the defense, ME, but I don't feel attacked. There have been a number of recent threads where thoughts related to theism were inextricable from science (notably, there were two threads about scientific determinism and the apparent conflict with free will.) In that discussion, I noticed that many folks haven't thought through the apparent contradictions.

 

Others, like Orb, really don't have any context to understand even the rudimentary basics of Christianity (per her original thread message). I don't mind filling in the holes.

i hope i have not mocked anybody with my opinions.

Orb-I didn't fell mocked at all. But I do appreciate the sincerity of the apology. I was just taking this thread as a logical place for basic Christian "training" since it is clear that some core elements of Christianity are unknown by some (many?) on this site.

[Queso]

totally understandable. i'll admit i do not know much about the history of religions, and love to learn about them.

i am a strong non-believer though, but that's just me.

(per her original thread message)

i'm a guy! not like it matters though.

[Biochemist]

i'm a guy! not like it matters though.

WAY oops. Sorry about that.

[motherengine]

i hope i have not mocked anybody with my opinions.

 

i am not religious so you haven't mocked me. i just don't understand the reasoning behind the post. maybe i should lighten up. this giving a **** stance can get in the way of transcendence.

[Queso]

well my reasoning at first was the lack of knowledge on this holiday. why post it in a science forum? well this seems like a good source of knowledge that reaches to a lot of people, i thought i'd give it a shot. yeah, i sometimes am iffy about posting religious things in here, but i really don't have anywhere else to talk about things of this matter.

[Turtle]

___Well now, it just rang midnight here & Easter has ended; good time to talk some more about it. I see no one has broached the pagan Spring celebrations aspect in regards to the timing of the christian easter & I beleive this is the case. The early church had stiff competition for followers & incorporating existing celebrations into church stories put more money in the plate. The same is true for christmas.

___Following biblical record & roman historical accounts, Jesus was likely born in August; again connecting his birth to the pagan Winter festival by the christian church put coppers in the plate.

___I point out also the science of determining easter, which relies on astronomy & sets easter Sunday as the first Sunday after the first Full Moon after the Spring Equinox.

___So Orby, there is good reason to celebrate; Spring is here & the promise of new growth, whether secular or religous, everyone acknowledges the wonder of life's ability to renew itself. :)

[motherengine]

Easter is the most important holiday of the Christian year, observed in March or April each year to celebrate the Resurrection of Jesus from the dead after his death by crucifixion (see Good Friday), which Christians believe happened at about this time of year around AD 30-33. (Easter can also refer to the season of the church year, lasting for nearly two months, which follows this holiday and ends around Pentecost. See Eastertide.)

 

In most languages of Christian societies other than English and German, the holiday's name is derived from Pesach, the Hebrew name of Passover, a Jewish holiday to which the Christian Easter is intimately linked. Easter depends on Passover not only for much of its symbolic meaning but also for its position in the calendar; the Last Supper shared by Jesus and his disciples before his crucifixion is generally thought of as a Passover seder, based on the chronology in the Synoptic Gospels. The Gospel of John has a different chronology which has Christ's death at the time of the slaughter of the Passover lambs. This would put the Last Supper slightly before Passover.

 

The English and German names, "Easter" and "Ostern", seem clearly unrelated to Pesach etymologically and likely derive either from Eostremonat, an old Germanic month name, or Eostre, an alleged Germanic goddess, who the 8th century English historian Bede stated was honored with a festival during Eostremonat. No account of Eostre has been discovered other than Bede's single mention, which has led historians to suggest that Bede's observation was conjectural. It has been suggested that many of modern Easter's symbols, such as colored eggs and the Easter Bunny, are cultural remnants of Eostre's springtime festival and that Eostre merged with the Christian Pesach celebrations after the Germanic heathens were Christianized (see Easter as a Germanic Heathen festival below.), even though giving of eggs at spring festivals was not restricted to Germanic peoples and could be found among the Persians, Romans, Jews and the Armenians.

wikepedia

 

as far as resurrection being possible, has anyone knowledge of a someone being brain dead (when the brain stem fails to function) and then resuscitated? all retarded jesus jokes aside, i believe this may be possible, as in a coma.

[Biochemist]

as far as resurrection being possible, has anyone knowledge of a someone being brain dead (when the brain stem fails to function) and then resuscitated?

Usually "brain dead" means the brain stem is alive (to manage respiration and autonomic functions) but the cortex and other higher centres are damaged. There are indeed examples of folks labeled brain dead being resussitated. There are a lot of reasons why this would not apply to Christ, however. Let me know if you are interested in that elaboration.