In the name of God

[Biochemist]

Ya look at all the atheist suicide bombers!

Many of them are. Many have freely admittied on the record that they act for political purposes, not religious ones. I can't speak for all of them, of course.

[Queso]

what record? i would like to see that because this is very hard to believe.

[Biochemist]

what record? i would like to see that because this is very hard to believe.

Sorry, Orb, I can't produce one. It was reported in the media, specifically, that Zarqawi was working for political ends, not spiritual objectives. I am certain that there are actual, violent religious zealots, but there are nutty folks lots of places.

 

It would be interesting to start a thread about the tendency for Islamic culture in particular (as opposed to Islam the religion) to foment radicalism. There is a lot of circumstantial information on this, but most of what I have read is conjecture.

[Freethinker]

Many of them are. Many have freely admittied on the record that they act for political purposes, not religious ones. I can't speak for all of them, of course.

Oh I love this guy. He speaks to dead people!

 

How about you speak for ONE, if not ALL.

 

Please show us all supportable quotes from Suicide bombers stating they were Atheists.

 

This should be interesting.

[Biochemist]

Oh I love this guy. He speaks to dead people!

Ft, you are a smart gent. Condescension does not become you.

Please show us all supportable quotes from Suicide bombers stating they were Atheists....

Please note post #20.

[C1ay]

Sorry, Orb, I can't produce one. It was reported in the media, specifically, that Zarqawi was working for political ends, not spiritual objectives. I am certain that there are actual, violent religious zealots, but there are nutty folks lots of places.

 

It would be interesting to start a thread about the tendency for Islamic culture in particular (as opposed to Islam the religion) to foment radicalism. There is a lot of circumstantial information on this, but most of what I have read is conjecture.

 

So. Just because he blows himself up for political purposes with the goal of meeting Allah to collect his 72 virgins does not make him an atheist, it makes him a believer.

[Biochemist]

So. Just because he blows himself up for political purposes with the goal of meeting Allah to collect his 72 virgins does not make him an atheist, it makes him a believer.

Keep in mind that Zarqawi has NOT blown himself up. He just uses the immature enthusiasm of despondent young radicals to get THEM to do it. He runs the program. And for a political end, not a religious one. If he REALLY wanted those 72 virgins, don't you suppose he would do it himself?

 

This is not too far afield from the style that Hitler used. He focused on Aryan nationalism a little more than religion, but the emotive, manipulative style was similar. He aslo targeted youth as a critical element of his campaign.

[C1ay]

Keep in mind that Zarqawi has NOT blown himself up. He just uses the immature enthusiasm of despondent young radicals to get THEM to do it. He runs the program. And for a political end, not a religious one. If he REALLY wanted those 72 virgins, don't you suppose he would do it himself?

 

Uh, how does that make those despondent young radicals atheists? Their leaders like Zarqawi and Bin Laden have stated time and time again that these martyrs are going to to Allah. Please show one credible report where any of them have claimed to be atheists. You could also explain that “Allah akbar. Allah is great. All praise to Allah.” phrase they all seem to recite before they press their detonator.

[Freethinker]

Sorry, Orb, I can't produce one.

Interesting, so throwing out unsupportable garbage is more popular around here again, since I left. Just make the claims and hope no one bothers to ask for actual proof!

It was reported in the media, specifically, that Zarqawi was working for political ends, not spiritual objectives.

Let's see, I VERY SPECIFICALLY mentioned ATHEIST SUICIDE BOMBERS. To which you blurted out

Many of them are.

Besides it being an outright lie, the lone example you give, Zarqawi is not only not an Atheist, rather an Islamic extremeist, but he is not even a suicide bomber! CLUE: HE'S STILL ALIVE!

 

Ah yes, once more I run into the believer filled with absolute knowledge, of nothing.

[Biochemist]

Let's see, I VERY SPECIFICALLY mentioned ATHEIST SUICIDE BOMBERS. To which you blurted out...Ah yes, once more I run into the believer filled with absolute knowledge, of nothing.

FT- I assume you are aware this reads like a rant, and the tone is not particularly constructive.

 

I may well have misconstrued the intent of your post, and if so, I apologize. But your suggestion was that violence is driven by theistic fundamentalism. My response was that the violence is driven by policial manipulators that take advantage of, among other things, youthful fundamentalist enthusiasm for their own ends. You may not choose to agree with this, but it is certainly not a mysterious position, nor is it a position rarely held. It has substantiation through a number of media sources, although I can't pull one out without a search.

 

I don't actually know whether Zarqawi is a theist or not, but the point is that his behavior is not driven by theism, but by politics.

[bumab]

The obvious implication was the young radicals ARE acting with a religious goal, but the underlying motivation was projected upon them by another, older radical NOT acting with religious goals, but rather politcal ones.

 

Any passion can be manipulated.

[Biochemist]

The obvious implication was the young radicals ARE acting with a religious goal, but the underlying motivation was projected upon them by another, older radical NOT acting with religious goals, but rather politcal ones.

 

Any passion can be manipulated.

I concur.

[bumab]

FT- I assume you are aware this reads like a rant, and the tone is not particularly constructive.

 

Get used to it.... :)

 

Anyway...

 

It would be an interesting thread on the tendancies of various religions at various times in their history to be particularly aggresive, like Islam now and Christianity in the Middle Ages. Both seem to happen at a time when the religous element becomes enthroned in the political position for an extended period of time.

 

Even in Asia, "peaceful" religions have gone violent for a time... It leads to some disturbing (although not suprising) thoughts about America's direction.

[C1ay]

Ya look at all the atheist suicide bombers!

Many of them are.

 

I think the obvious implication here is that many of the suicide bombers are atheists. Why then do so many of them exclaim “Allah akbar. Allah is great. All praise to Allah.” if they are atheists? IMO it is actually their belief in Allah that contributes to them going through with it after they have been brainwashed into commiting such an act in the first place. It doesn't matter if their purpose is political, the point is that they are not atheists.

[Biochemist]

I think the obvious implication here is that many of the suicide bombers are atheists. Why then do so many of them exclaim “Allah akbar. Allah is great. All praise to Allah.” if they are atheists?

C1ay- I concede that my response was poorly worded. My intent is posted in post #27.

[infamous]

Ya look at all the atheist suicide bombers!

 

Outstanding point Freethinker; For all those here at Hypography that haven't read Freethinker's signature, please do so. It will save you a lot of wasted time just spinning your wheels. Freethinker and I have had our disagreements, but to give him due credit he is only asking that we observe the request written in his signature. It's high time we concentrate on scientific issues and abandon these efforts to convert those that are unwilling to be converted.

[Biochemist]

It's high time we concentrate on scientific issues and abandon these efforts to convert those that are unwilling to be converted.

Hmmmm.

 

Infamous, I don't know whether you were talking to me, but I am not trying to convert anyone. Freethinker responded to two separate threads on "God" topics with assertions of fact with which I disagree. I am engaging in two unrelated fact-oriented discussions with him. I am pretty sure that no one is forcing him to respond to these threads, and the discussions are generally on topic with the thread.

 

My impression was/is that this is the format of the site. True?