Lost city of Atlantis discovered? Grainy images show city-like formations at the bott

[Moontanman]

Lost city of Atlantis discovered? Grainy images show city-like formations at the bottom of the Caribbean

 

 

 

Read more: Is this the lost city of Atlantis? Grainy images released showing city-like structures beneath the Caribbean Sea | Mail Online

 

 

 

 

 

Is this the lost city of Atlantis? Grainy images released showing city-like structures beneath the Caribbean Sea | Mail Online

[stereologist]

Where is the water clear enough to show that large a field of view? Are these photographs or sonar images?

[Moontanman]

Where is the water clear enough to show that large a field of view? Are these photographs or sonar images?

 

I'm not sure, i have problems with this one for the get go, why would a real scientist have a problem with publishing something if they had real evidence? I was asked by a friend to run this one though the forum and see if it got any respect, i told him not to expect much.

[stereologist]

This sounds like a sales post doesn't it where you get to sign up for a paid special to watch the opening of Al Capone's safe.

[Moontanman]

Sadly I think this one is total BS, the lines or at least some of them, have already been shown to be artifacts of the way sonar is used to map the sea floor. Others are of real interest but the dates have been distorted to confer with biblical accounts of a great flood.

 

There are undersea ruins around the world, or at least indications of them at depths of 200 feet or more, often in areas of river mouths were diving is very close to impossible or so unproductive due to water clarity issues and currents it is impractical at this time. a very few are available but in very remote locations.

 

To some extent this smacks of conspiracy theory, but if you give the benefit of the doubt and if the dates are made to be more reasonable and accounts of the great flood aren't confined to biblical time tables, then you get an idea of a world wide civilization near the end of the last ice age when the sea levels were hundreds of feet lower than they are now.

 

This world wide civilization was confined to sea coasts and river mouths. Mostly traders, their interaction with inland peoples was limited. When the glaciers retreated, at some point (this is needed to show the catastrophe) huge chunks of mile high glaciers slipped into the oceans the resulting tidal waves and subsequent rising of the sea levels devastated this world wide sea faring culture.

 

since this was supposed to have happened 12,000 years ago or so there should really be no connection between them and the Egyptians or any other of the new civilizations of the last 6,000 years. Any one who claims such a connection shows themselves to be BS artists in my opinion.

 

If you do give credence to the idea of the civilization of the world 12,000 years ago. Possibly some passed down tales and other information could be the basis for the legends of a great flood or Atlantis type fall of a island civilization. But to me it's a stretch.

 

I'd like to see some serious study of the artifacts that have been dredged up (supposedly) and the ruins that have been identified by sonar and the few that are accessible to divers. I can see how a civilization of sea farer's who traded around the world and lived on sea coast river mouths and islands might have been wiped away by a rise in sea level , even if it took a couple generations to happen.

 

It's difficult to see why they didn't leave more of a genetic impact on the people around the world but possibly the horse is already out of that barn due to modern mixing of various populations and the Recent advent of DNA tests might be too late to detect such genetic mixing.

[GAHD]

Atlantis?

[Pyrotex]

People move. No, really. I've seen them do it many times.

 

Right now, people who used to live right on the Texas coast are moving inland at least a mile or two. Seems there was a storm a bit over a year ago that caused lots of high water. Remember Ike? Right now, people who used to live on the slopes of an active volcano in the Phillipines are moving entire villages.

 

How fast would ocean waters rise at the end of the last Ice Age? 200 feet in 2000 years maybe? That would be pushing it, but for the sake of argument, let's accept it. That's one foot of vertical rise every 10 years. For land at the coast, a slope of 20:1 is reasonable. So, that's 2 feet of horizontal encroachment every year, until you get to the foothills, of course, where the encroachment would slow to a crawl.

 

These (purported) grand cities of a past civilization would have moved. That's what people do, they move. When the water laps at the temple gate, they take the temple apart or build another one further inland. Two feet a year is just 200 feet per century. It's 200 feet from the high tide mark to "Fisherman's Street".

 

In a century, a lot can be done. Most homes would have to be rebuilt anyway, because of age and storms, so you would see evidence that the city slowly "moved" away from the beach to higher ground as the seas rose. And two feet a year can be easily seen. A 50 year old man notices that the pier from which he fished as a boy is now completely under water even at low tide.

 

These "ancient civilization cities" show no sign of moving. There isn't a "trail" of streets and columns leading towards shore and shallow water. There isn't a "terminal city" on the beach, living or in ruins, to mark the furthest point to which the inhabitants moved.

 

You could point to Venice as an example of a city that couldn't move. But to assume that all, or even most, or even 1% of ancient cities were "Venice's", built upon isolated mud flats or sand bars in the first place, is stretching logic too far. People don't build huge cities on sand bars. Venice was an extreme exception -- the people who built Venice were being hunted and exterminated; the mud flats and sand bars gave them some protection from their enemies on the mainland.

 

All in all, I think the vast, vast (vastly vast) majority of claims for city ruins that deep under water are bogus.

 

People move. Really.

[stereologist]

Pyrotex, thanks for the nice post. The rise in sea level is hardly noticeable since it is eclipsed by the damage due to storms.

 

About the only group I can think of that has not moved due to changes in water level is the people that lived on the Colorado River in Mexico. Cars allow them to drive to the ocean to fish since the Colorado River no longer reaches the ocean. People without this technological advantage have to move.

 

What I want to know is just where are the traded items from that time period?

[Moontanman]

I understand what you are saying Pyro but the idea isn't behind the sea level rise, it's the idea of many mile high ice bergs falling in the ocean and the resulting tidal waves destroying any low lying coastal cities and then the sea level rise hiding the ruins from us. I do not doubt a slow rise in sea level would be off set by the slow move of cities to high ground but a series of tidal waves might be enough to totally ruin any civilization based in river mouths and coastal areas. We are not talking about 20th century level civilization, more like the Phoenicians or early Arabic more or a little less advanced.

[Pyrotex]

I understand what you are saying Pyro but the idea isn't behind the sea level rise, it's the idea of many mile high ice bergs falling in the ocean and the resulting tidal waves ... .

Mmmmm... I am sceptical. Their reach should only be on the order of 100 miles or so. The range of such tidal waves would be far smaller than waves created by earthquakes.

 

We have mile thick ice sheets in Antarctica and Greenland, but by the time the sheets get pushed out to where they can "calve", they are only a fraction that thick.

[modest]

Sadly I think this one is total BS, the lines or at least some of them, have already been shown to be artifacts of the way sonar is used to map the sea floor.

 

I had never heard that about sonar artifacts so I searched and found an interesting example from a year ago. I'd guess you've seen it, but I found it interesting:

 

 

where the lines are sonar tracks explained:

Google quashes rumours of Atlantis discovery - Miscellaneous

and Google Earth's thread with bookmarks:

Grid in Atlantic Ocean - Google Earth Community

 

since this was supposed to have happened 12,000 years ago or so there should really be no connection between them and the Egyptians or any other of the new civilizations of the last 6,000 years. Any one who claims such a connection shows themselves to be BS artists in my opinion.

 

If you do give credence to the idea of the civilization of the world 12,000 years ago. Possibly some passed down tales and other information could be the basis for the legends of a great flood or Atlantis type fall of a island civilization. But to me it's a stretch.

 

Apparently the story was originally published in a French newspaper, Herald de Paris, and they are now pissed that everyone is attributing the discovery of Atlantis with their paper and their sources:

 

WASHINGTON, DC (Herald de Paris)

- Much has been made, this past week, about the so-called Atlantis possibly having been discovered under the ocean in the Caribbean, as first reported in our publication.

 

Look again. Nothing the Herald de Paris has published says anyone we’ve worked with or spoken to is claiming to have found Atlantis. Quite to the contrary. In the first article, we published the quote saying specifically, “This is NOT Atlantis.”

 

The Atlantis spin was added by MSNBC, and then further spun by The Huffington Post. We further continued to distance “our” reporting from the Atlantis myth by publishing articles denouncing MSNBC and Huffpo’s sensationalism of our original story and their adding the Atlantis spin. In the case of the Huffington Post, the “Atlantis” spin was so distanced from the Herald de Paris’ original reporting that our breaking story was not even cited.

Herald de Paris

 

There are some better pics on their (The Herald de Paris) website. It puts the images into context making satellite imaging artifacts seem much more likely. The original three stories are here:

1. Previously undiscovered ancient city found on Caribbean sea floor | Herald de Paris
   
2. More from Caribbean site .. New detail images just released | Herald de Paris
   
3. Got ruins? Undersea archaeologists release new photos | Herald de Paris

The third one in particular is revealing because it shows the images without the contrast increased.

 

~modest

[stereologist]

Ice is rather interesting in that it readily flows. A mile high precipice could not be formed. Only 150 feet into the glacier the ice becomes rather plastic. It readily deforms.

 

Some of the better possibilities for a glacial associated catastrophe are collapses of glacial till. The sediments dumped by glaciers entering the ocean can build up and slide. These underwater slides can set off large waves. An example of this would be the Storrega events. It has been supposed that the waves destroyed an area called Doggerland.

[stereologist]

Here is a link with the proper spelling of the event:

Storegga Slide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

The link also mentions Doggerland.