Spontaneous human combustion

[paigetheoracle]

With regards to the above subject, a blue flame is mentioned in a lot of cases. This leads me to ask, is it as some have suggested, that it is alcohol related? (Think of burning brandy on a Christmas pudding). If this is the case, have any incidents occurred in Islamic countries, where alcohol is banned and what colour have the flames been described as, if so?

 

Failing the alcohol connection, what chemicals in the human body burn blue or failing that what chemical reaction, combining various elements in the human body, has a flame of this colour? (If I'm wrong about a large percentage of cases mentioning flames of this hue, please correct me as it's not a subject I'm an expert in).

[sanctus]

Chemistry is not my thing, but when petrol burns it has also a blue flame...

[Theory5]

A blue burning flame is usually the hottest part of the flame.

Actually, I heard that humans really don't drink enough alcohol to catch on fire. Perhaps if the amount of alcohol you have in your body rivaled that of the 80% water humans usually have...

I'm not sure enough conclusive studies have been done on burning separate pieces of the human body to be of use.

exactly what cases have you looked into?

[Donk]

I saw a TV program about it some years ago. I can't find a link, but I expect it's out there somewhere.

 

The cases they'd picked up on were weird: usually just part of the body had burned, with scorching to the furniture actually in contact with the corpse. The rest of the room showed smoke damage only, as if the fire hadn't been very big or very hot. Yet the body itself had been consumed to ash, with even the bones crumbling to the touch. Very often it was just the mid-section of the body which had burned, leaving the arms/legs virtually undamaged.

 

They had a theory that certain types of clothing act as a candle-wick: burning starts, subcutaneous fat melts, gets pulled through the wick and burns. Testing with a couple of pig carcases, this looked to be very plausible. Naked carcase, apply blowtorch... you get some burning, but it doesn't spread, or generate the clouds of greasy smoke that seem to accompany Spontaneous Human Consumption. Put the pig in a woollen sweater... the carcase burned slowly but completely over several hours, showing remains very similar to SHC.

 

A totally fascinating piece of television science!

 

Drink would usually have something to do with it, I suspect...

[BrianG]

I like to preform this magic trick:

 

I found this wallet, on E-bay. It used to belong to one of the 9/11 hijackers, Kind of bizarre, morbid a wallet that used to belong to a dead terrorist. I like to imagine where are they now?

 

YouTube- Flaming wallet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufu2L2shvwI

 

Hot, hell, oww!

 

No virgins there.

[Moontanman]

Spontaneous Human Combustion is in fact homicide, you render a person unconscious by some means, alcohol is popular, or find them in that state, then you pour alcohol on them and set it on fire. the fire is slow as it consumes the body due to the wicking effect of the clothing on the body. Homicide , every time, no mystery any more. It has even been found just started with the blue flame of alcohol just beginning to consume the body. It has been reproduced with pigs wrapped in cloth, once the body's fat starts to ignite the body is on it's way to being consumed. It is possible but unlikely for it to happen accidentally but most if not all cases are thought to be homicide. Of course lots of people who love mysteries seem to want it to be some mysterious process, much like UFOs or other "unexplained" phenomena. As long as people insist on the mystery it will be.

[Dd'sEvilTwin]

Meh...it's just smokers that just happen to be blessed with too many of the bacteria that produce methane in their innards.....sadly I am lacking as are many......and therefore very very rarely have flammable flatus.....tho me brother is the opposite and produces very impressive big booming blue flames:)

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Not I! Our other brother...DdET should have specified that but I'm sure he thought it too amusing that y'all would have thought he meant me.....course we know for a fact that several of you think we are one and the same:hihi: silly gooses:hihi:

[paigetheoracle]

Meh...it's just smokers that just happen to be blessed with too many of the bacteria that produce methane in their innards.....sadly I am lacking as are many......and therefore very very rarely have flammable flatus.....tho me brother is the opposite and produces very impressive big booming blue flames:hihi:

 

Now that is interesting, coupled with Donk's statement that it is the torso that burns - could it be methane combustion? (Moontan - get your fat, lazy, head examined! Call yourself a scientist? Who, even if drunk, is going to let your pour alcohol all over them, then set fire to it? We have just had a high profile case in the UK of someone who killed their girlfriend by pouring petrol all over her, then setting it alight and locking her in their flat: Neighbour broke in because of the screams, not the snores - if you're not going to take this question seriously, I won't let you play with my train set again, ever!).:naughty:

[Moontanman]

Uh huh, human beings (and no other animal) spontaneously ignite for no reason and burn up. It is a great mystery even though the effect can be recreated at will by anyone with a pig carcase, some cloth and a little bit of alcohol. Yes, I am a true believer in that one Page.

[Dd'sEvilTwin]

Now that is interesting, coupled with Donk's statement that it is the torso that burns - could it be methane combustion? (Moontan - get your fat, lazy, head examined! Call yourself a scientist? Who, even if drunk, is going to let your pour alcohol all over them, then set fire to it? We have just had a high profile case in the UK of someone who killed their girlfriend by pouring petrol all over her, then setting it alight and locking her in their flat: Neighbour broke in because of the screams, not the snores - if you're not going to take this question seriously, I won't let you play with my train set again, ever!).:naughty:

Now sir....it could very well be an ideal mix of alcohol vapor in the lungs ignited with a nice fwooosh!:hihi:

[modest]

I saw a TV program about it some years ago. I can't find a link, but I expect it's out there somewhere.

 

The cases they'd picked up on were weird: usually just part of the body had burned, with scorching to the furniture actually in contact with the corpse. The rest of the room showed smoke damage only, as if the fire hadn't been very big or very hot. Yet the body itself had been consumed to ash, with even the bones crumbling to the touch. Very often it was just the mid-section of the body which had burned, leaving the arms/legs virtually undamaged.

 

They had a theory that certain types of clothing act as a candle-wick: burning starts, subcutaneous fat melts, gets pulled through the wick and burns. Testing with a couple of pig carcases, this looked to be very plausible. Naked carcase, apply blowtorch... you get some burning, but it doesn't spread, or generate the clouds of greasy smoke that seem to accompany Spontaneous Human Consumption. Put the pig in a woollen sweater... the carcase burned slowly but completely over several hours, showing remains very similar to SHC.

 

A totally fascinating piece of television science!

 

Drink would usually have something to do with it, I suspect...

 

I saw that program , or one very similar, and it really was good :naughty: Perhaps,

 

BBC News | UK | New light on human torch mystery

 

Dr. John de Haan of the 'California Criminalistic Institute', it says, did the pig experiment.

 

Spontaneous human combustion stands alongside rods as being, as I would see it, debunked by example.

 

~modest

[TheBigDog]

Spontaneous Human Combustion is in fact homicide, you render a person unconscious by some means, alcohol is popular, or find them in that state, then you pour alcohol on them and set it on fire. the fire is slow as it consumes the body due to the wicking effect of the clothing on the body. Homicide , every time, no mystery any more. It has even been found just started with the blue flame of alcohol just beginning to consume the body. It has been reproduced with pigs wrapped in cloth, once the body's fat starts to ignite the body is on it's way to being consumed. It is possible but unlikely for it to happen accidentally but most if not all cases are thought to be homicide. Of course lots of people who love mysteries seem to want it to be some mysterious process, much like UFOs or other "unexplained" phenomena. As long as people insist on the mystery it will be.

So you are saying it is premeditated human combustion? My belly would make a long lasting candle. The rest of me would just roast. This is a difficult one to test. I saw the same program that Donk saw (I would guess), but missed the middle for some reason. Maybe Hypography should send this into Mythbusters.

 

Bill

[Buffy]

So you are saying it is premeditated human combustion? My belly would make a long lasting candle.

 

Well, it's in the other direction temperature-wise, but there was a doctor on Rachael Ray this morning (don't ask), who had a brand new gizmo that *freezes* your fat, killing it and then leaving it to your white blood cells to carry it off. No more muffin tops!

 

Much better than the candle option, although that was the theme of an episode of Fringe a few weeks ago....

 

Do you realize if it weren't for Edison we'd be watching TV by candlelight? :naughty:

Buffy

[paigetheoracle]

Uh huh, human beings (and no other animal) spontaneously ignite for no reason and burn up. It is a great mystery even though the effect can be recreated at will by anyone with a pig carcase, some cloth and a little bit of alcohol. Yes, I am a true believer in that one Page.

 

I saw that experiment - all it did was convince me that there are better ways to cook a pig!

 

By the way if you do spontaneously ignite - let me know, it's bloody freezing round here!:)

[stereologist]

On a grim note I remember something about the holocaust deniers claiming that not enough coal had been shipped to the camps to burn all of the bodies. It turns out that less coal was required because much of the fire could be sustained by the fat from the bodies.

 

Humans and other animals do burn, but not well since there is much water.