Too many scientists?

[Erasmus00]

I have heard for the last decade or so that the US in particular has a shortage of people going in to math and science, and this weakness will somehow hurt the US in the future.

 

However, in reality the case appears to be just the opposite. There are so few jobs in mathematics and the physical sciences that any jobs that open up are intensely competitive. The average phd spends 6-10 years in low paying postdoctoral positions waiting for an academic position to open up, and the competition for these rare spots is fierce. Even liberal arts and community colleges have become competitive when faced with this huge glut of scientists. The majority of phd graduates leave the field, and go into finance, consulting, project management, etc.

 

So why do we, as a society, perpetuate this myth that we need more people in mathematics and the physical sciences? Was there ever a shortage?

[GAHD]

Mathematics and Hard Science are used everywhere. You're not seeing the big picture if you think those positions aren't available.

 

Any engineering firm has equations that need to be balanced and checked and solved; math is used in finance; city planning uses math to help with traffic flows, water distribution, and statistical analysis.

 

Chemists are used in aerospace for making sure reactions won't occur with components and non destructive testing, as well as for designing meta materials for the construction of better airframes.

 

Geologists can work with oil or mining companies, or the ever present engineering firms where the ground is an issue.

 

micro biologists find work in pharmaceutical labs...

 

I think the problem in north America is that there are too many "technicians" who know how to follow the drawings but don't understand the science behind it enough to detect flaws in their work.

[sanctus]

I also think that you gave the answer yourself. There is a shortage in mathematicians & friends in the whole employment spectrum, but academy is the exception to the rule. This is why all the ones who leave academics find a job in finance, etc. because there, there is a real shortage.

 

In Switzerland for example you can become physics-teacher without having even started the teacher-education, just because there are too few...

[Yoron]

Too many scientists? Not according to Dr. Michio Kaku

[Erasmus00]

From your own link

 

In the 1960s, because of Sputnik, a tremendous number of university jobs opened up. The number of professors soared exponentially. But this could not last forever. By the mid 1970s, job expansion began inevitably to slow down, forcing many of my friends out of work. So the number of faculty positions leveled off in the 1980s.

 

Then, many people predicted that, with the retirement of the Sputnik-generation, new jobs at the universities would open up in the 90s. Exactly the opposite took place. First, Congress passed legislation against age-discrimination, so professors could stay on as long as they like. Many physicists in their seventies decided to stay on, making it difficult to find jobs for young people. Second, after the cancellation of the SSC and the end of the Cold War, universities and government began to slowly downsize the funding for physics. As a result, the average age of a physicist increases 8 months per year, meaning that there is very little new hiring.

 

As I said, physicists do not become scientists for the money, so I don’t want to downplay the financial problems that you may face. In fact, many superstring theorists who could not get faculty jobs went to Wall Street (where they were incorrectly called “rocket scientists”). This may mean leaving the field. However, for the diehards who wish to do physics in spite of a bad job market, you may plan to have a “fall-back” job to pay the bills (e.g. programming) while you conduct research on your own time.

 

The job market in all of the hard sciences in the US is quite weak right now, and has been for awhile. The reason there are so many former physicists in finance, consulting, etc is that they couldn't get jobs in traditional technical fields. In the US in particular we seem to have a huge glut of highly trained math/science/technology/engineering workers and no way to employ them all.

[sanctus]

Ok Erasmus, but then you should re-phrase your OP, finance, etc. offers jobs for scientist and are still related to mathematics...

[Ben]

The academic world is a closed shop, in a certain sense. The inhabitants there take it for granted that it the best of all possible lives

 

Like: when was an undergraduate, it was more-or-less taken it for granted that, if you did well, you would do the PhD.

 

I did.

 

If your PhD was picked up, you were offered a post-doc.

 

I took it.

 

If you did your post-doc at a prestigious school, you were invited to get on the faculty somewhere else.

 

I was.

 

At no stage was there there any thought by my advisors (or by me) that there might be a life outside.

 

Talk about following the path of least resistance!

[Jay-qu]

It is a sad thing that the very people who are driving this world forward and giving answers to problems like the energy crisis - are held back by money. Ben I understand your path and know that many of the people on the faculty here at my Uni probably took such a path. But these days with more competition and what seems like less money for positions more people are ending up in some very different jobs. Apparently banks are a big fan of people with physics and maths background - as its easy to teach a physicist economics than an economist maths :phones: and apparently the same goes for a lot of vocations.