Relationship of Time vs Gravity.

[Taer]

Hi,

 

I just joined this forum today after almost losing my mind trying to find discussion or math about this topic. From what I can gather as gravity increases time itself decreases relative to earth. Is this a correct primitive assessment of times relationship with gravity?

 

And if so would it also be safe to assume that as gravity in a given area increases that time in the given area would also decrease relative to earth?

 

Or am I completely misunderstanding the concept?

[sanctus]

Welcome!

 

It is not really clear what you mean by time increases/decreases. What gravity affects is the relative time difference between 2 clocks in 2 different gravity fields. There is not more and less time, but time "flows" slower or quicker in a given gravitational field when compared to the "flow" of time in another field.

[Taer]

What I meant is the Rate of time would decrease. I apologize I really should have explained that a little bit better. So as the Gravity in a given area increases the Rate of time in a given area would decrease with respect to earth would that be a correct assessment?

 

Meaning if Area A is affected by Gravity for intents and purposes at 0 in relation to area B

 

Area B is affected by nearly 10(ⁿ) (lets say 10)times more Gravity than Area A.

 

Meaning that If the Gravity in Area B would continue to increase the rate of time within Area B would decrease in relation to Area A.

 

would that be a correct assessment of the concept?

[JMJones0424]

Clocks closer to massive bodies do indeed measure time slower than clocks a greater distance from a massive body. An everyday example of this is the GPS system, which relies on timing to figure distance from the satellite to the receiver. The satellite is traveling at a greater speed than the receiver (giving a perceived slower time progression) and is also further from the earth than the receiver (giving a perceived increase in time progression relative to the receiver).

 

GPS and Relativity

 

If you have not yet run across it, Georgia State University has an excellent on-line resource for basic physics at HyperPhysics

Here is their explanation of general relativity and time dilation.

[Taer]

Cool! ty for the link

[Ankit]

:phones: to begin with, according to einstien's equivalence principle a body in a gravitational field is identical to one in an accelerating frame. and we know that time runs slower as our velocity increases, eventually time slows in presence of a gravitational field.

this must be what happens due to the presence of earth's gravitational field.

the stronger the field more the time slows.

 

hope i'm right!!!

RSVP. :xparty:

[Time_Travel]

Clocks closer to massive bodies do indeed measure time slower than clocks a greater distance from a massive body. ..........

 

Does that mean time runs slower on Saturn planet than on our Earth

[Taer]

Does that mean time runs slower on Saturn planet than on our Earth

 

I think time itself doesnt run slower but the rate at which it exist does.

 

BUT im a dropout so hell if i know:confused:

[Little Bang]

If you synchronize two clocks leave one on the surface of Earth and put the other on the surface of Saturn, the one on Saturn will run slower than the one Earth.

[Time_Travel]

If you synchronize two clocks leave one on the surface of Earth and put the other on the surface of Saturn, the one on Saturn will run slower than the one Earth.

 

The Question is WHY?

Why does mass lowers speed of time?

[Little Bang]

If anyone can ever describe what produces the field of an electron and proton we will be able to answer that question. QM says they are surrounded by virtual particles. Now if these particles are what comprise these fields that would suggest the virtual particles surrounding the electron must somehow be different from those around the proton. On the face of it that seems to me a rather weak solution to the problems with the standard model. If matter is on the other hand a wave then time will be a part of the answer. In the case of a particle time is not required for it's existence but if all the plethora of temporary particles were instead a wave then it requires time.

[sman]

The Question is WHY?

Why does mass lowers speed of time?

 

Feynman having trouble with a similar question:

 

YouTube - Feynman 'Fun to Imagine' 4: Magnets (and 'Why?' questions...) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMFPe-DwULM&feature=related

 

Gravity does what we observe it doing. It may not be meaningful to ask why it's doing it.

[Little Bang]

He drives home my point. If we can't explain it with current knowledge then look for new knowledge.

[CraigD]

Does that mean time runs slower on Saturn planet than on our Earth

If Earth and Saturn were about the same distance from the Sun, a clock on the surface of Saturn would run slower than the same clock on the surface of Earth, by a ratio of about 1 second per 100 Earth years (about [math]\frac{.999999999302317512}{.999999998969879879}[/math]).

 

However, because they are very different distances (Saturn about 10 times as far from the Sun as Earth), and the Sun is much more massive than either, clocks on the surface of Earth run slower than those on the surface of Saturn, by about 6 seconds per 100 years (about [math]\frac{.99999999120662893}{99999989431689864}[/math]).

 

More significantly, Earth orbits the Sun at a faster speed than Saturn (about 29780 vs. 9690 m/s), so clocks on Earth also run slower than those on Saturn due to velocity time dilation. When this effect is included in the calculation for the most accurate result, the Saturn/Earth proper time ratio is about 19 seconds per 100 years (about [math]\frac{.999999990684261431}{.999999984497930294}[/math]).

 

The formula for gravitational time dilation is [math]\frac{t_1}{t_0} = \sqrt{1-\frac{2Gm}{c^2 r}}[/math]

 

The formula for velocity time dilation is [math]\frac{t_0}{t_1} = \sqrt{1 - \left( \frac{v}{c} \right)^2 }[/math]

 

You can read about both in more detail – enough, with a few more reference data, to confirm my calculations above – at the wikipedia articles gravitational time dilation and time dilation.

He [Feynman] drives home my point. If we can't explain it with current knowledge then look for new knowledge.

Looking for new knowledge about the physical causes of observed phenomena is what science is all about.

 

However, Relativity and results from it such as the above, are mere physical law. They accurately predict effects that are confirmed by observations, without answering fundamental questions about why their predictions are accurate.

 

So, while I agree we need new knowledge, this doesn’t suggest we should discard old knowledge. For most of the history of science, new knowledge builds on old.

[Little Bang]

And if some of the old knowledge is wrong our building will never be completed but let's not worry about that possibility cause there is no way it could be true.

[Taer]

So I guess my next question would be what happens when gravity of two celestial bodies are fighting...what would be the affects of that? Is gravity a wave or a particle..is it both and retains a duality structure? and if so then can we observe and better understand how it would effect the rate of time?

[Little Bang]

There are three particles proposed by the standard model, the virtual, the graviton and the Higgs. The virtual and the graviton exist in some dimension or pseudo space that we can never test. The Higgs is supposed to be some sort of syrup that sticks to a particle and gives it mass. Since gravity propagates at C then the graviton must, like virtual particles, exist in all of space via this pseudo dimension. I do not have a clue as to how gravitons mediate gravity and make time malleable. Virtual particles are used to explain almost all energy transfer. If virtual particles turned out to not be an option then a large portion of the physics done over the past eighty years or so would be invalid. I keep asking the same question," Why do we detect the field around the electron as being negative and the proton as being positive and of what are this fields made?