Does It Make Me A Weird Person and Social Psychology of Hugs

[alexander]

I just had some late thoughts from some recent personal events, and i think easiest way to decide and accept a piece of myself would be to ask you guys what you think, to get an objective overview and derive an answer...

 

So i met with somebody on Friday, who it is is completely immaterial, it was a date, sort of, met her for the first time in person, I've only been able to talk to her over the phone and text (the second of which is really the worst form of inter-person communication). Because i value confidentiality quite highly, i wont even delve into the kind of a person she is, it is immaterial and that would be an essay, and its not at all the aim of this question. So after i met her, rather after we finished the meeting, i did some driving and thinking.

 

So, the first question, does driving and thinking about a recent communication with somebody make me a weird person, analyzing some events sometimes, at times nearly meditating while pondering and recalling things, events, thoughts, reads, sometimes for hours on end to nose bleeds (usually when i stop and draw a conclusions)?

 

And then i went home, slept, texted her in the morning, tried to reach my friend, who was unavailable and that makes my decision processes even longer and drawn out, but I ultimately made the decision against pursuing a relationship with her, well not my best friend.

 

Now does it make me a weird person, if i sent her a text with a psychological digest of the date, about a few things that struck me as her staying closed, even though she was talking about some personal stuff?

 

(tangent, second part of that title)

Oh which reminds me that i forgot to mention the hug, shoot, well for those of you who are interested in seeing patterns in people, a hug can tell you a lot about how a person feels about you, but its not as simple as the hug itself, you have to factor in what led to the hug, and it doesn't hurt to observe the behavior after you have physically separated.

 

For example, a weak hug like "i uh you too" that was preceded with openness and little to no holding back, may mean that the person is just a bit shy of you, or maybe they were put off guard by your suggestion of a hug. If however the hug was welcomed, maybe that person doesnt really like hugs, it can sometimes be the case that they welcome gentle physical contact, but don't necessarily enjoy hugs.

 

If you have learned that the person likes and enjoys hugs, but the preceeding conversation leaves you to believe that the person is locked in, or defensive, trying to hide something or lying, the hug is initiated by the opposite side, and is not a weak hug, but is fast, chances are that person just wants to get rid of you and separate quickly.

 

If the conversation is sincere, the hug is sincere, warm, not short, then the person really enjoys your company, though a note here, that does not mean that you are liked, necessarily the way you want to be liked, but you are not disliked, and i should add that there may be reinforcing factors, like a gentle kiss on the cheek, that definitely means that you are liked, but it doesn't mean that you are like the way you want to be liked, let me reiterate that.

 

If both the conversation is weak or you suspect it is (for example, the defensive posture can be mistaken if there is a breeze, from like an ac vent, you have to be careful and not dismiss other factors, look for reinforcing factors, are they shying from eye contact, yeah make it deliberately, and dont have an intent on breaking it, read their eyes...), and the hug, while being initiated by the other side is weak, you have yet another strong reinforcement in that person not being open with you, being shut in, keeping you out of their mind... If it is further reinforced by the sigh of relief, which takes many forms, sometimes shown by a simple change in the posture, sometimes a short phrase, sometimes an action, some behavior that has changed, though not every behavior fits here, remember, people can omit things they are hiding, but very few people in their body language can hide that they are omiting something.

 

But back to apples, so does it make me a weird person if i analyze events, especially conversations, and then sometimes blatantly presenting those people with what i saw in their behavior and why an action or a statement that was meant to kind of be a surprise can be treated with a "yep i know" or "well that was not at all surprising", or offer it as an explanation to why i distrust them?

[Pyrotex]

Alexander,

wow. If you're weird, then a lot of us guys are weird.

 

I have done that, most all that, especially when I was younger (20's). Rather quickly, I learned not to give detailed analysis feedback to the woman. People in general, don't take well to someone analyzing and interpreting their hugs, their pauses, their sighs, their occassional fits of rolling their eyes, etc.

 

Even though the analysis was often dead on correct.

 

I have a 37 YO male friend right now who is brilliant. Wonderful guy to talk to. Keeps 100's of snappy quotes, aphorisms and epithets in his iPhone, sorted by author and topic. Outstanding programmer and engineer. Devilish good looks and gracefully athletic.

 

Bombs totally with women, though. After a few encounters, he has them typed on seven different psycho-socio-sexual-maturity scales. :clock: Being such a nice guy, of course, he feels compelled to explain to them why they have their little habits and verbal oddities, and why they react this way to that and that way to this, and what their hugs and kisses and laughter says about them, and on and on...

 

And the women get a bit creeped out, having this 'guy' walking through their minds, commenting on the decor, the furniture and the odd clump of dustbunnies here and there.

 

Speaking personally, it is very easy to extend the analysis of another person somewhat beyond the point where there is sufficient evidence to support a valid conclusion. I broke off with a wonderful woman once because we had to spend three weeks apart, and during that time, my obsession with going over every little nit and speck of our past conversations led me to a totally wrong conclusion about her. I called her and blurted out my break-off speech. Weeks later, after exchanging a few "sorry" and "goodbye" letters, my mistake became obvious, but by then it was too late.

 

So, are you weird? Yeah. Sure. Exactly like all intelligent guys are weird. Duh!

 

What to do about it? Well, numero uno, don't take your analysis too seriously. Analytical extrapolations beyond outlier data (based on a single encounter) may sound convincing, but it's probably bogus. Always seek confirmation from other conversations, other encounters, other communications; and from mutual friends who have had some success in the realm of boy-girl stuff.

 

And numero dos, don't try to share your analyses with the target of your affections. Your analysis of her (either as friend or lover) is yours and yours alone. It will only make sense within the context of your private thoughts. It can only be used by you to make your decisions. And when you are tempted (as you will be) to open your mouth and demonstrate to your sweetie how smart you are by explaining how her childhood, her mother, and her brain chemistry explains her peccadilos, habits, faults, odd way of giggling and her failure to yield on left turns -- just shut your mouth, smile and keep it to yourself.

 

If you REALLY want to impress her, learn how to cook a really great chicken and brocolli casserole.

[alexander]

hehe, totally rep-worthy post, pyro, though i wasn't quite looking for advise on relationships, trust me, not a bit of that post went past me.

 

Couple of things, one, i know how to cook and cook fairly well, though i don't cook too often, i do really enjoy it and often offer to cook (and eat) a dinner together, even to my friends. Two, i never base an analysis on a single action, conversation, single topic, or a spur of the moment feel, partly the reason why it takes very long, and i rarely am up front and straight with people about it, unless they have crossed into the friends boundary. If i suspect something, and i need to know whether I'm right, i will bring it up and ask it, i would never break up a relationship friend or date solely based on my analysis. The way that this worked was her telling me that she was kind of interested in someone, and it was brought out of the blue, perhaps looking for a surprised or a disappointed reaction, and i just told her why i was not surprised in the least bit... Was the analysis a factor in my decision, yeah, was it what made that decision, not really, ultimately she made the decision, though unknowingly...

 

Yeah i used to analyze and be up front about it, like telling her what her childhood was like, or what kind of a relationship she has with her parents, what her favorite color is, what she desires or hates most in people, perhaps her obsessions, what she likes to do and why she is the way that she is, but yes, you are right, it certainly creeps girls out and definitely has pushed me into the friends list a lot more then a few times. Especially if you are up front about something she just lied about, its funny right how, and i cant say a majority, but i can say a lot of girls want guys that are honest and faithful, yet they don't want you to know that they are lying or hiding something... ( perhaps Pam or Buffy can extrapolate on why that is...? )

 

And to reiterate something i stated in my post above, never ever base your analysis on one factor, always try to discredit factors if another explanation can be found, and always look for breaks in your logic after you have reasoned it out, even a small break can mean a difference between a healthy relationship (friends or more) and breaking-up for all the wrong reason... I kind of wish i could post what i actually said, but i wont, if you really want to know, pm me, I'll specify it a little more but i still can't say all of what i said, but there was a lot more logic to it then a weak "i uh you too" hug

[Buffy]

wow. If you're weird, then a lot of us guys are weird.

"Wow, that's fascinating!"

People in general, don't take well to someone analyzing and interpreting their hugs, their pauses, their sighs, their occassional fits of rolling their eyes, etc.

Yah, Pyro said "people"...

Even though the analysis was often dead on correct. :)

Well, at least it seemed correct at age 23...

Wonderful guy to talk to. Keeps 100's of snappy quotes, aphorisms and epithets in his iPhone, sorted by author and topic. Outstanding programmer and engineer. Devilish good looks and gracefully athletic.

We call those types poseurs... "...do you think he's reading a script?" [yah, Pyro, I know *exactly* who you're talking about! :evil: :phones: ]

...After a few encounters, he has them typed on seven different psycho-socio-sexual-maturity scales. ;) Being such a nice guy, of course, he feels compelled to explain to them why they have their little habits and verbal oddities, and why they react this way to that and that way to this, and what their hugs and kisses and laughter says about them, and on and on...

"...looks like I'm going to need an odometer to measure that ego..." "...I was beginning to wonder if he needs a hearing aid, but obviously it wouldn't be useful unless he stopped talking, or--God forbid--actually asked a question..."

And the women get a bit creeped out, having this 'guy' walking through their minds, commenting on the decor, the furniture and the odd clump of dustbunnies here and there.

"I find your emotional reaction to my insightful and incredibly accurate identification of your primarily sociopathic and mentally inadequate behavior, highly illogical."

 

<Thea looking over mom's shoulder>Creeeeeeeeeperrrrr!</Thea> [yes, she actually says that with a tone that will send chills up your spine....]

Speaking personally, it is very easy to extend the analysis of another person somewhat beyond the point where there is sufficient evidence to support a valid conclusion.

"Weak hugs are conclusive proof that this person grew up with an alcoholic mother and an eskimo blubber chewing father, prefers romance novels and puts exactly 3/4 of a packet of Splenda in her decaf coffee which of course proves she can't deal with reality because it's illogical to waste that quarter packet of Splenda on the Thursdays when she takes yoga classes which she performs embarrasingly badly because her kneecap is not properly aligned." [...it's important to note that that analysis was based on two and possibly *three* data points! ]

I broke off with a wonderful woman once because we had to spend three weeks apart, and during that time, my obsession with going over every little nit and speck of our past conversations led me to a totally wrong conclusion about her. I called her and blurted out my break-off speech. Weeks later, after exchanging a few "sorry" and "goodbye" letters, my mistake became obvious, but by then it was too late.

Oh yah, the "too late" line. One of my very favorites... :evil: [no, Pyro, I doubt this is the fault of UBama.... :cheer: ]

So, are you weird? Yeah. Sure. Exactly like all intelligent guys are weird. Duh!

...and I wonder why I constantly end up dating artists and sales guys....

What to do about it? Well, numero uno, don't take your analysis too seriously.

...well you might want to consider that it's possible that whatever your analysis is, it's the exact opposite of the truth....

Always seek confirmation from other conversations, other encounters, other communications; and from mutual friends who have had some success in the realm of boy-girl stuff.

....please note the "success" part....

And when you are tempted (as you will be) to open your mouth and demonstrate to your sweetie how smart you are by explaining how her childhood, her mother, and her brain chemistry explains her peccadilos, habits, faults, odd way of giggling and her failure to yield on left turns -- just shut your mouth, smile and keep it to yourself.

Well, be careful about even *thinking* it, because we can *tell*.

 

Something I've noticed though is that this sort of tendency actually attracts a particular kind of woman: It can create the perception of a deep-seated character flaw that attracts women who like to "fix" poor little birds with "broken wings." The worst thing about this is that instead of being driven away by humiliating denigration, they're attracted to it like moths to a flame, and you'll have an almost impossible time getting rid of them: the more evidence they see of behavior that drives people away the more likely it is you'll put up with them there is about you to fix (see? we do it too, but we keep our mouths shut: we all have a friend or two *exactly* like this....)

If you REALLY want to impress her, learn how to cook a really great chicken and brocolli casserole.

...or honestly, just grow a pair....of ears!

 

I don't care how witty or smart or successful a guy is (well, be able to afford to pick up the tab!). Why would I want to have a *relationship* where the only issues are "your brilliance" and "my inadequacies."

 

See what's wrong with that picture?

 

You're right, Pyro: this kind of behavior is *very* common, and I'll even agree with the "normal" appellation...but when one considers how much we complain about how few great guys there are out there, ya have to ask: is that actually *a good thing*? :) :evil:

 

Oh and alex, you might find a few of the things I just told Pyro somewhat relevant to the stuff you were talking about. :cheer:

 

Your hat strategically dipped below one eye, your scarf it was apricot, :(

Buffy

[sanctus]

Alexander, I know that very well. I always have problems to just listen to my feelings and not analyse everything. I think this is a professional deformation of being in natural sciences... And also I sometimes can say really cruel things, because they are just the logic answer. Like when once my girlfriend was telling some story where they put cats in a bag and throw them in the river; instead of saying something like "poor cats", I said "why not just kill them? It is easier and more efficient...and does additionally not make them suffer (this last part maybe saved me ;D)"; that is the logic answer when the problem statement is: have cats and want to get rid of them .

She was a bit shocked ;-)

And there are many more cases like this.

But what I am trying to do lately is just not to give too much weight to my logic when it is inappropriate, because analysing I do anyway.

[Moontanman]

I'm all about hugs, physical contact is how we or i anyway show affection. i hug everyone i like and if I really like you i might even kiss you on the cheek, male or female, it has everything to do with really knowing someone. Scents are far more important to humans than most people believe.

 

I can tell by just a hug and and or quick kiss on the cheek if i am going to be physically attracted to a woman or not, her scent is important to me, far more important than her appearance, and there is no better way to tell than a hug and a smooch. Smells, scents and pheromones are important to us and our rush to isolate our selves often cuts off these basic transmissions of important information. Intelligence and personality are very important but to ignore basic human chemistry is a mistake.

[Pyrotex]

"... Yah, Pyro said "people"...

... "...looks like I'm going to need an odometer to measure that ego..." "...I was beginning to wonder if he needs a hearing aid, but obviously it wouldn't be useful unless he stopped talking, or--God forbid--actually asked a question..."

:evil: :phones: :) :cheer: :hihi:

 

"I find your emotional reaction to my insightful and incredibly accurate identification of your primarily sociopathic and mentally inadequate behavior, highly illogical."

Yes, boys and girls, do not ever, never, NEVER say that. :eek2: :lol:

 

... Oh yah, the "too late" line. One of my very favorites... :evil: [no, Pyro, I doubt this is the fault of UBama.... :cheer:

No, it was MY fault. My fault for being stupid and inexperienced. My fault for never having had a girlfriend up until that time. My fault for not having friends to talk to with about boy-girl stuff.

...and I wonder why I constantly end up dating artists and sales guys....

Because they're push-overs? :shrug:

... I've noticed though is that this sort of tendency actually attracts a particular kind of woman: It can create the perception of a deep-seated character flaw that attracts women who like to "fix" poor little birds with "broken wings."

I've had my share of fixers, thank you. And my share of "fixer-uppers". [Ya know, just give her a good paint job, switch out the hairdo, modernize the attitude, make her forget her ex-husbands, and replace a few worn out parts, and she'll make one hell of nice girlfriend!]

...or honestly, just grow a pair....of ears!

I notice a LOT of women say that, but in the end, they just use those... ears... as a target to kick at. But maybe that's just the crowd I run around with. Who's to say?

I don't care how witty or smart or successful a guy is ...

You better, you better, you bet! ;)

... You're right, Pyro: this kind of behavior is *very* common, and I'll even agree with the "normal" appellation...but when one considers how much we complain about how few great guys there are out there, ya have to ask: is that actually *a good thing*? :cheer: :evil:

It all depends upon what the definition of "great" is... is. The number of women (ages 18-28) out there who really appreciated a guy who listened and respected them was... Hmmm... I'm not sure I met ANY. :evil:

But I do remember they had a lot to say about "ears". :lol: :lol: :lol:

... Your hat strategically dipped below one eye, your scarf it was apricot, :phones:

Buffy

Bad boys finish first.

But good (smart) boys keep going and going and going and ...

:( :) :evil:

[alexander]

@Buffy

I love to listen to girls, you are fun to listen to, and i often find myself in situations when i know a LOT more about her then she cares to even know about me, and a really good example is my best friend, lol...

 

I also dont smile, or hint that i am thinking something, i note things when i'm with the person, but usually i am a bit preoccupied with paying attention...

 

I dont want to be "fixed", i love to make people smile and laugh, or if they are with their friends, do something small for them that is simple and yet at times people get amazed, mentalism stuff, like having someone write down 3 memories, throw two out, think of one and guess the memory first time, every time, guess their bank account PIN, i dunno tons of mentalist things, or maybe a little street magic stuff, if i happen to have cards with me, a small routine, or if i dont, maybe make something move, just slightly, but enough for people to notice and not be able to explain, or throw a coin into a can of soda or beer, whatever, sometimes so small that out of like a few friends, only one or two will notice that anything was going on, looks are awesome, like "wait what the hell just happened, did it happen, how?" and then a while later the curiosity peaks and they ask, its a ton of fun. I'll always do some tricks for you if i'm on my bike, and stuff...

 

And i hate when people hide things or lie to me, especially if they talk about honesty and trust and openness...

 

And buffy, i am always mindful of being wrong, and i have gotten major things wrong before, but every wrong is an experience to correct my understanding of people and i have never made a girl angry or pissed at me because of something i said... i end up staying friends with every girl i've ever been out with, though that honestly is not a large number... buuut i don't mind that, it's just how i am...

 

@ Sanctus

I hear that, unfortunately i have developed reflexes that i am not all too keen about having, i will snap back with stupidity to stupidity, and it has gotten me into a lot of explanations before...

 

@ Mr. Moon

I've written about this before, smells are very, very important, they tell us more about the other person then a lot of people give them credit. People detect bad genes and health troubles though smell on an unconscious level. Smell is fascinating subject as well, our 3d smell ability is somewhat of a topic of some recent researches after we though we knew how we smell...

[paigetheoracle]

I just had some late thoughts from some recent personal events, and i think easiest way to decide and accept a piece of myself would be to ask you guys what you think, to get an objective overview and derive an answer...

 

So i met with somebody on Friday, who it is is completely immaterial, it was a date, sort of, met her for the first time in person, I've only been able to talk to her over the phone and text (the second of which is really the worst form of inter-person communication). Because i value confidentiality quite highly, i wont even delve into the kind of a person she is, it is immaterial and that would be an essay, and its not at all the aim of this question. So after i met her, rather after we finished the meeting, i did some driving and thinking.

 

So, the first question, does driving and thinking about a recent communication with somebody make me a weird person, analyzing some events sometimes, at times nearly meditating while pondering and recalling things, events, thoughts, reads, sometimes for hours on end to nose bleeds (usually when i stop and draw a conclusions)?

 

And then i went home, slept, texted her in the morning, tried to reach my friend, who was unavailable and that makes my decision processes even longer and drawn out, but I ultimately made the decision against pursuing a relationship with her, well not my best friend.

 

Now does it make me a weird person, if i sent her a text with a psychological digest of the date, about a few things that struck me as her staying closed, even though she was talking about some personal stuff?

 

(tangent, second part of that title)

Oh which reminds me that i forgot to mention the hug, shoot, well for those of you who are interested in seeing patterns in people, a hug can tell you a lot about how a person feels about you, but its not as simple as the hug itself, you have to factor in what led to the hug, and it doesn't hurt to observe the behavior after you have physically separated.

 

For example, a weak hug like "i uh you too" that was preceded with openness and little to no holding back, may mean that the person is just a bit shy of you, or maybe they were put off guard by your suggestion of a hug. If however the hug was welcomed, maybe that person doesnt really like hugs, it can sometimes be the case that they welcome gentle physical contact, but don't necessarily enjoy hugs.

 

If you have learned that the person likes and enjoys hugs, but the preceeding conversation leaves you to believe that the person is locked in, or defensive, trying to hide something or lying, the hug is initiated by the opposite side, and is not a weak hug, but is fast, chances are that person just wants to get rid of you and separate quickly.

 

If the conversation is sincere, the hug is sincere, warm, not short, then the person really enjoys your company, though a note here, that does not mean that you are liked, necessarily the way you want to be liked, but you are not disliked, and i should add that there may be reinforcing factors, like a gentle kiss on the cheek, that definitely means that you are liked, but it doesn't mean that you are like the way you want to be liked, let me reiterate that.

 

If both the conversation is weak or you suspect it is (for example, the defensive posture can be mistaken if there is a breeze, from like an ac vent, you have to be careful and not dismiss other factors, look for reinforcing factors, are they shying from eye contact, yeah make it deliberately, and dont have an intent on breaking it, read their eyes...), and the hug, while being initiated by the other side is weak, you have yet another strong reinforcement in that person not being open with you, being shut in, keeping you out of their mind... If it is further reinforced by the sigh of relief, which takes many forms, sometimes shown by a simple change in the posture, sometimes a short phrase, sometimes an action, some behavior that has changed, though not every behavior fits here, remember, people can omit things they are hiding, but very few people in their body language can hide that they are omiting something.

 

But back to apples, so does it make me a weird person if i analyze events, especially conversations, and then sometimes blatantly presenting those people with what i saw in their behavior and why an action or a statement that was meant to kind of be a surprise can be treated with a "yep i know" or "well that was not at all surprising", or offer it as an explanation to why i distrust them?

 

Russians are known for being strongly analytical as are the autistic and the shy (Extroverts don't think, they feel and react). This is also why you distrust - bold people make blunders in their relationships as their self-confidence means they don't hold back. I note take like mad too and in fact my wife/ partner has on numerous occasions threatened to tear up my notepad or throw it away. As for giving the other person feedback of this type, this too is natural with thinkers as opposed to feelers (intellectual as opposed to emotional). The latter act out or say what is on their mind, the former write/think it out.

 

As for the hugging thing as you so rightly say, it can be the person is shy with everyone or just doesn't like you (again, the first reaction is a thinker one and the second a feeler one).

 

Dr Paige's lonely hearts (and minds) column is open for business, Monday to Friday, 9-5.

[Vox]

If we take statistical approach and use Gaussion Curve concernin IQ and bluntly add Darwins statement "the survival of the fittest". Nature favours average in population because it is the fittest and therefore "dummies" and "intelligent individuals" deviating from "fittest" part/average could be then bluntly considered "unfit" and "abnormal" from natures perspective concernig "breeding" due they are represented only as few % from total population.