G20 summit turns Toronto to police state, just who screwed up?

[GAHD]

I don't know how many of you followed the G20 news, but wow was I surprised at what happened.

 

First off, Police and CSIS decide to raid the homes of social organizers, before G20 starts and in one case while they were on the way to a press meeting to express their views.

Preemptive arrests, threats and fake charges have been the order of the day. Yesterday morning, several community organizers from Toronto and Montreal were picked up in violent police raids aimed at disrupting demonstrations before they happened.

Next the protesters, now without leadership to keep them organized and calm, go bat-**** crazy, and start torching police cruisers in the streets.

stores along Queen Street were vandalized and police cruisers set ablaze this weekend...The iconic Steve’s Music marquee was melted from the heat of a police car that had been torched in front of the store...The Eaton Centre went into “lockdown” on Saturday, some hospitals were accepting only emergency patients, a concert at the ACC was cancelled and the TTC system was completely shut down for a time.

Now, in the aftermath, charges are being flung left and right, as police are denying arrestees meaningful and timely access to counsel while beating and arresting those peacefully protesting their detention outside.

Despite assurances to the contrary, only a handful of people have been released, including those held for many hours without charge...lawyers call in and are told that there is no one available to make decisions or wait for hours at the detention centre, only to be denied access to their clients.

 

And all of this because these clowns are showing up?

Prime Minister Stephen Harper of Canada; President Barack Obama of the United States; King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia. Middle row, left to right: President Jacob Zuma of South Africa; President Dmitry Medvedev of Russia; Prime Minister Meles Zenawi of Ethiopia; Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey. Top RowLeft to right: Deputy Prime Minister Wayne Swan of Australia; Prime Minister Naoto Kan of Japan; Minister of Finance Guido Mantega of Brazil; Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso of the European Union; World Bank President Robert Zoellick.

 

Right now I'm at a loss to describe my feelings. I know that If I had been in Toronto I'd probably have torched a cruiser or two myself after seeing this abuse of power. The government and it's subsidiary agencies(re: CSIS, TPD) are in place to PROTECT CANADIAN CITIZENS, not bag them and put them in UNMARKED VANS. This is a flagrant abuse of authority and almost a call to revolution in my eyes. If they get away with it there, they can get away with it anywhere.

 

Tell me what you guys think, I need some level heads to balance me out here.

 

-G.A.H.D.

[GAHD]

"The province has secretly passed an unprecedented regulation that empowers police to arrest anyone near the G20 security zone who refuses to identify themselves or agree to a police search...The regulation kicked in Monday and will expire June 28, the day after the summit ends. While the new regulation appeared without notice on the province’s e-Laws online database last week, it won’t be officially published in The Ontario Gazette until July 3 — one week after the regulation expires..."

 

 

- 'Just watch them': Harper and McGuinty's G20 tag team against civil liberties | rabble.ca

 

 

"Critics reacted furiously to the new rules, which remained unpublicized until Thursday when a 32 year-old man was arrested in Toronto for refusing to show ID to police"

-http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Secret+lets+police+arrest+failing+show+near+summit/3201082/story.html

 

I'm reminded heavily of pre-WW2 German history here.

[Boerseun]

Jeez, that's crazy, man.

 

The cops are opening up the floodgates to lawsuits, surely.

[Qfwfq]

For a G20 summit, seems as if Toronto got off quite lightly...

 

On July the 20th, 2001, during the G8 meeting in Genova, 23 year old Carlo Giuliani was shot dead, apparently by a young auxilliary Carabiniere. He was shot while he held a fire extinguisher:

and, of course, the police had acted in self defence.

 

carlo giuliani - Google Search

Carlo-Guliani.com

[Donk]

I've often wondered why our lords&masters always meet in large cities. There must be a smallish island somewhere they could use to get away from the crowds. They'd need a conference centre, hotels for themselves and the press pack, and an airport or heliport that could be closed to non-conference traffic.

 

It wouldn't cost any more (probably less) for the accommodation, and "security" costs would be WAY down.

 

So why don't they do it? Do they like the macho feeling that they get riding around in motorcades surrounded by police motorbikes? Is it some sort of status thing for the host country's leader, giving lots of photo-ops with all these Top People?

 

Or is there a tiny spark of stubborn pride left inside them that says that really they shouldn't hide away from the people who elected them? If so, they're right. They shouldn't. So why do they?

[CraigD]

These Toronto Media Co-op articles are alarming, especially when compared to how little attention the weekend’s events are receiving in mainstream newsources (eg: a news.google search of “G20 Toronto”)

 

I’ve had personal experience with improper police behavior during large public protests in Washington, DC, and news reporting downplay of the events apparently at the bequest of government officials, so am credulous of reports of similar activity in Toronto. However, I’m ignorant of technical and practical Canadian law. What are the legal implications of the arrests of protest organizers in Toronto? Are they still detained? Have they been publicly charged with crimes? Can they be? Have they access to legal counsel? Spoken to friends and associated? Is a legal process by which they can challenge the legitimacy of their arrests? etc.

 

In short, I want to know more, from calm, unbiased reporters and knowledgeable people. All I have read so far appears strongly biased either in support of Toronto police and G20 organizers, or in support of the arrested protesters.

[sanctus]

Gahd, it is not worse than G8 in Genova and they got away with it (and not only for Carlo Giuliani, also people arrested and forced to sing Mussolini songs, etc. but I guess you followed that)...but ok that is Italy (whatever this means ;-)). For example the security responsable police-guy had just to change department, but I guess Qfwfq knows more internal italian politics...

 

As for being arrested when not showing an ID, this is normal for me, in Switzerland they are allowed to arrest you until your identity is verified, so I you have no ID on you they can actually do it, never heard though that it is happening somewhere.

 

Donk, there is the WEF-annual-meeting (World economic forum) in the middle of the swiss Alps (Davos).

 

There are every year huge demonstrations even when they are forbidden...it is not enough to go out of big towns.

[lawcat]

The question is how sensitive to protestors should the state be? The good news is that officials can be changed by vote in Canada and USA.

[Qfwfq]

...but ok that is Italy (whatever this means ;-)

It means that it happened in a modern western democratic nation.

 

Now that means it's a place where citizens elect politicians and parties to control the legislative and executive bodies, but these and various institutions are also controlled by so-called "occult powers" that cater for special interests.

 

but I guess Qfwfq knows more internal italian politics...

Alright, I'll say what little I know these days. :shrug:

 

There was certainly a lot of controversy over the whole Genova episode. The most aggressive demonstrators had been rallied by one well known Luca Casarini who had openly declared they would violate the red zone, in protest against the extraordinary measures. (He denies having organized the violent Black Bloc groups but was alleged to be in close ties with them.) It was after clashes had begun between police and his marchers, that one group of them attacked the jeep when it was almost alone, smashing its windows. The young Mario Placanica had about six months of experience in service and no anti-riot traing so far, he must have been soiling his panties with fright; his hand is visible in the picture I posted, pointing his Beretta calibre 9 Parabellum at Giuliani. The fire extinguisher had been thrown at those youths, one of them had thrown it back at the jeep before Giuliani picked it up. It is said that he then raised it above his head. Placanica declares he fired the two shots up in the air, Giuliani was hit by a bullet, there are many unclear elements including what kind of bullet wounded Giuliani and some say he was not yet dead when one of the jeep's tyres twice passed over him.

 

Police very soon surrounded his body and prevented even journalists from getting near it, by available material many accuse them of having tampered with evidence and even of bashing his head with a stone. These things are not likely to be formally investigated any further because the investigating magistrate filed the case away as being one of legitimate use of the officer's weapon. Some police officials have since made admissions about Genoa episodes, such as fabricateing excuses for having stormed the temporary dormitories while activists were sleeping.

 

A large peaceful march was halted at an intersection and attacked by police who did nothing to a Black Bloc group that was just around the corner. Several journalists were nearby and even some old friends of mine were in the march, quite near the head where it was attacked; they tell me there was no sense in it. This was pretty much like what Carolyn Carson of The Ottawa Citizen says about Toronto's events.

 

As for being arrested when not showing an ID, this is normal for me, in Switzerland they are allowed to arrest you until your identity is verified, so I you have no ID on you they can actually do it, never heard though that it is happening somewhere.

Here in Italy it isn't legal to roam public places without carrying ID of a valid kind. At least, they can stop you until your identity has been determined somehow, such as by someone who declares to know you.

 

In theory, they can identify you only in certain cases, which include suspicious circumstances, according to a law passed back during the days of cold war terrorism which, in the same cases, also allows them to search persons and their vehicle for weapons, explosives and tools of breakage. These cases are described as "persons whose attitude or presence does not appear justified in relation to specific and concrete circumstances of place and time" and this of course gives them wiggle room to justify requesting ID in many cases. I've never tried claiming they had no real reason to request to see it.

[sanctus]

Thanks Qfwfq, the dormitories were really the most hardcore thing I think (I mean they could decide to just arrest them for fishy reasons, but there was no need to break arms etc. as they did), but also how the black block people were left alone.

i remember having bought tickets to clesest train stop to Genova you could go. But then my sister started making terror i should not go, she got too scared. And the friend who should have gone with me, also got scared. But he was with his bag at the train station in case he couldn't convince me not to go. That is a friend...I ended up not going due to this pressure, but then woked up the next morning pissed off that I didn't go...

 

But back to Toronto. Any updates?

[Qfwfq]

I mean they could decide to just arrest them for fishy reasons

ER, not even that. There was no real reason, it turned out they had fabricated the only excuses. The use of those places as dorms had been granted for the purpose. The folks sleeping there were in no suspicious circumstances.

 

By the news I read today about Toronto, it seems there was more violence than it seemed yesterday, but it doesn't seem it was quite as bad as at other summits. At least, for the moment it doesn't seem that bad.

[Buffy]

Like a lot of things these days there's a scientific theory that's been formulated to drive these police actions:

They call it the Miami Model.

 

...

 

It refers to police tactics used in Miami seven years ago, during the Free Trade Area of the Americas summit, and, more importantly, the protests erupting on the streets outside.

 

Manny Diaz, Miami’s then-mayor, called the police methods exemplary — a model to be followed by homeland security when confronting protesters.

 

Human rights groups including Amnesty International called it a model of police brutality and intimidation.

 

Protesters were beaten with tear gas, sticks, rubber bullets . . . You can watch police stun cowering protesters with Tasers on YouTube. Last year, the city agreed it had trampled citizens’ right to free speech by forcing marchers back from planned protests and settled out of court with Amnesty International.

 

What is the Miami Model? ... Here are the main themes.

 

• Information warfare. This starts weeks before the event. Protesters are criminalized and dehumanized, and described as dangerous “anarchists” and “terrorists” the city needs to defend against.

 

“Often, a faux cache is found,” says Archer. “They are usually ordinary objects, like bike inner tubes, camping equipment, but the police make them out to look threatening. It lays the groundwork for police to be violent and it means there’s a reduced accountability of law enforcement.”

 

• Intimidation. Police start random searches of perceived protesters before any large rallies. They are asked where they are staying, why they are walking around. Police raid organizer’s homes or meeting places, “usually just before the summit, so there’s maximum chaos organizers have to deal with,” says Archer.

 

“All this is meant to dissuade participants. The best way to make sure you don’t have a critical mass of people taking over the streets like in Seattle is to reduce the numbers at the outset.”

 

This is usually made possible by last-minute city regulations, curtailing the right to protest. In Miami, the city commission passed a temporary ordinance forbidding groups of more than seven to congregate for more than 30 minutes without a permit.

 

• “They threw rocks.” That’s the line police use after tear-gassing or beating protesters most times, Archer says. Urine and human feces are variations on the theme. But it’s always the protesters who triggered the violence. A popular police tactic is called “kettling.” Officers on bike or horses herd protesters into an enclosed space, so they can’t leave without trying to break through the police line. Take the bait; you provoke a beating or arrest. And of course, there are the famous agent provocateurs, outted publicly two years ago in Montebello. Police officers dressed up like militant protesters to protect the peaceful crowd, they say; Archer says it’s to instigate trouble.

 

In Montebello, one of the three cops dressed in black was holding a rock.

 

....

 

• Job well done. At the end, regardless of the bodies clogging the temporary holding cells and hospitals, the police always congratulate themselves. And by the time the cases go to court, the story is long forgotten and the circus has moved to a new unsuspecting town.

 

More than 270 people were arrested in Miami during the summit seven years ago . How many were convicted, in the end? I called the American Civil Liberties Union to find out.

 

“None,” said lawyer Lida Rodriguez-Taseff, who was the president of the Miami chapter back then.

Chicago in 1968 and Kent State in 1970 showed that blood and guts is not a good methodology for dealing with dissent, but you can politically take advantage of protest to actually reduce it's effect.

 

It does of course boil down to effective use of The Big Lie....

 

We are not content with negative obedience, nor even with the most abject submission. When finally you surrender to us, it must be of your own free will. We do not destroy the heretic because he resists us; so long as he resists us we never destroy him, :rolleyes:

Buffy

[Boerseun]

I think the 'mob psychology' the cops are so worried about when dealing with a crowd of angry civilians armed with sticks and stones works both ways.

 

On the one hand, you've got a group of angry people armed with stone age weapons, and on the other side you've got a crowd of scared people armed with rubber-bullet shotguns, tazers, stun-guns, pepper gas guns, etc. They are both equally likely to follow the rest of their troop's actions, and for the exact same reason. The first protester to throw a stone will trigger hundreds of stones to be thrown. And the first jittery cop to shoot at the crowd will trigger the rest of his mates to follow suit.

 

Mobs are dangerous. Both protesting mobs, and the police confronting them, who are nothing more and nothing less that a slightly better armed mob.

 

I think a much better plan would be to let the mob do its thing without police confronting them, but with cameras all over the place. And then after the protesters have destroyed the city block and looted and pillaged, to go to the camera footage and individually charge and prosecute the individuals for whatever crime they committed. After the second or so protest, when those that loot, turn over cars, break shop windows etc. are now behind bars for very long sentences, things should calm down. Make examples out of them. The crowd might just be calmer without the presence of police. The philosophy behind this might be somewhat like that town in Belgium who decided to remove all road signs, stop signs, traffic lights etc., and now have some of the safest streets in Europe.

[Qfwfq]

We are not content with negative obedience, nor even with the most abject submission. When finally you surrender to us, it must be of your own free will. We do not destroy the heretic because he resists us; so long as he resists us we never destroy him, :rolleyes:

Buffy

Gosh, I thought that had a familiar ring to it....

 

We convert him, we capture his inner mind, we reshape him. We burn all evil and all illusion out of him; we bring him over to our side, not in appearance, but genuinely, heart and soul. We make him one of ourselves before we kill him.

 

A very gripping and brilliant book that is. :phones:

 

And the first jittery cop to shoot at the crowd will trigger the rest of his mates to follow suit.

 

Mobs are dangerous. Both protesting mobs, and the police confronting them, who are nothing more and nothing less that a slightly better armed mob.

This isn't the whole picture at all.

 

When it's the riot squads, they are quite specifically trained and they are acting according to orders, except in some specific cases where they react ex tempora to demonstrator's action.

 

I think a much better plan would be to let the mob do its thing without police confronting them, but with cameras all over the place. And then after the protesters have destroyed the city block and looted and pillaged, to go to the camera footage and individually charge and prosecute the individuals for whatever crime they committed. After the second or so protest, when those that loot, turn over cars, break shop windows etc. are now behind bars for very long sentences, things should calm down. Make examples out of them. The crowd might just be calmer without the presence of police.

Except that, in the case of these GN summits and related things, it wouldn't reach their goal.

 

The philosophy behind this might be somewhat like that town in Belgium who decided to remove all road signs, stop signs, traffic lights etc., and now have some of the safest streets in Europe.

Do you have the name of that town on you?

[Donk]

Do you have the name of that town on you?

I think this is what Boerseun's talking about :rolleyes:

[Qfwfq]

So it actually is a place in Holland! Gosh I thought he must be talking about Naples...

[Boerseun]

Belgium/Holland, who cares. The argument stays the same.

 

But yes, Donk - that's the story I was referring to. I remembered having read it a few months ago, I just remembered it was somewhere in the Low Countries.

 

Either ways, my argument stands. And the G20 is a bunch of idiots for insisting to hold their conferences in places where there are lots of people around. They should hop on their airplanes and hold their conference on some remote, isolated island somewhere in the Pacific. And cops should be held away from the crowds. Because they can have all the training in the world, but cops in big groups are nothing more and nothing less than a well-armed mob. And under mob rule, training for the biggest part plays second fiddle to your inner ape.