Dark matter may be other Universes

[Atlas shrugged]

Dark matter has been shown as nessecary to account for the nessecary gravity to form the Universe . But It has still not been proved as to what it is or from.

 

There are supercomputer simulations that are not able to form stars and galaxies unless we add gravity from somewhere.

 

And the long time theory of why the universe or the galaxies do not fly apart is that there has to be some matter that we cannot see.

But the source of this nessecary gravity is still not understood.

 

Could the source of this needed unknown gravity be coming from the mass of neighboring Universes that are believed to exist beyond ours ?

[Gordon Freeman]

If other universes were 'neighboring', then their gravity would not only pull ours apart, but they would be considered part of the same universe as ours. I've found that the easiest way to think about multi-dimensional objects that exceed three-dimensional terms, is two visualize them with two-dimensional properties when you think about them non-mathematically.

 

So look at it this way, lets say Earth and it's Moon were two whole universes. Now lets also compare them to the rest of our solar system, the Sol solar system. Earth and it's Moon account for two of the many universes in the multiverse. However, they are apart of the same solar system, no? And placing universes next to each other, without having them touch, is counter-intuitive to the term 'Universe' in which all things shared on a singular plane are apart of the collective 'universe'.

 

You cannot have separate universes sitting next to each other, they would be considered part of the same universe. Other universes, like the one you're suggesting, work off of different properties, varied from our own, and the base of those properties is the energy used to form them. Other universes may be functioning off of different kinds of energy altogether, which is to suggest, they are overlapped one on top of the other, but never physically interacting with one another in solid terms, because their energies are incapable of interaction.

 

Many universes may exists over and under ours, but not next to ours. Saying something that directly affects our universe, that we experience the properties of, and can interact with, that is next to us, is a whole separate universe, is a misnomer.

 

That being said, you must also realize gravity has been theorized to account for two properties instead of it's commonly used, one. Gravity may be both physical and energetic properties at once, or two separate properties altogether, with the physical side only affecting the energy used from the mass it's generated.

 

In either case, whether 'gravity' is a singular or dual-sided property, it affects both edges of our universal building blocks: matter and energy. And because matter and energy as so closely related, and technically the same thing, gravity can also be called it's own dimension.

 

If gravity is it's own dimension, then no, it is not a separate universe, just a property that we cannot fully observe in three-dimensional understanding. Which would also explain why we cannot find the entire source of it's generation.

[Atlas shrugged]

I have seen theories about other universes that show many Universes stacked like pancakes .There are probably billions of Universes just as we know now there are billions of galaxies.

They should be all exerting gravity as any mass will.

 

The pull of that gravity would not necessarily pull our Universe apart any more than our sun pulling apart any of its neighbors, Or the black hole at the center of our galaxy pulling it all apart. There are galaxies, and solar systems within those all exerting some force on each other without it all coming apart.

 

We coexist in a complex fabric of spacetime with many gravitational forces all working together.

That could also describe how many universes coexist and anwser the problem of what is exerting unseen forces that dark matter is proposed to do.

 

This has been on my mind for many years .Just a humble idea that may have some gravity .:)

[Gordon Freeman]

That last sentence made it all better haha.

 

There is one thing I would like to clarify though. When I said the universes were stacked on top of each other, I meant it as if they were overlaying each other, not like pancakes, but rather more like two solids phasing into one another without any actual interaction. Lets say we have a flat, 2-D plane that everything sits on. Now on this plane there are an infinite amount of universes, shaped like disks, all exactly one inch in diameter. Now in two dimensions, everything is perfectly flat, perfectly. So if all the universes are laid in the middle of the plane, they are all in the same space at the same time, and it would still be perfectly flat since they have no height or three dimensional depth.

 

That's kind of like what other universes, and essentially other dimensions (4-12) are doing to ours. They exist over us, in us, and through us. The only reason they don't interact with us is because they are separate identities altogether, with separate properties and thus separate goals. But in no way should you believe they occupy a separate space. They exist in the exact same space we exist in, we just do not see them or experience them consciously.

 

^Given that we are discussing the Multiverse as if it's a fact.

[Vox]

 

....That's kind of like what other universes, and essentially other dimensions (4-12) are doing to ours. They exist over us, in us, and through us. The only reason they don't interact with us is because they are separate identities altogether, with separate properties and thus separate goals. But in no way should you believe they occupy a separate space. They exist in the exact same space we exist in, we just do not see them or experience them consciously.

 

^Given that we are discussing the Multiverse as if it's a fact.

 

This got me pondering..why not, space "share" all possible dimensions..it is just our current conscious which determines in which dimensions we are oberving or "living" despite the fact that we are within all the possible dimensions but our conscious is not..All dimensions exist in space of multiuniverses within "one space" and evolution of conscious mind will reveal accordingly more dimensions within the space ? All dimensions are interlinked and interacts, but we are not capable to observe "the works" in it´s grandeur?

[Atlas shrugged]

Multiple Universes may exist in different ways and have been called Parrallel Universes in other types of situations.

 

My question though is, let's say there are mundane neighboring garden variety universes for disscusion sake ,

They would have influences on each other just as inside our Universe the different bodies IE: galaxies , black holes ,stars, planets, have effect on each other.

 

Could those neighboring universes be what, where, dark matter and dark energy is coming from ?

 

And our attempts to find a new particle to explain it may never be possible.

It may only be invisible because we cannot see beyond our own Universe.:Guns:

[Vox]

Multiple Universes may exist in different ways and have been called Parrallel Universes in other types of situations.

 

My question though is, let's say there are mundane neighboring garden variety universes for disscusion sake ,

They would have influences on each other just as inside our Universe the different bodies IE: galaxies , black holes ,stars, planets, have effect on each other.

 

Could those neighboring universes be what, where, dark matter and dark energy is coming from ?

 

And our attempts to find a new particle to explain it may never be possible.

It may only be invisible because we cannot see beyond our own Universe.:Guns:

 

My personal opinion is that this "neighboring" or "parallel" Universes terminology is a bit misleading. Assume that we are in actual space which contains all of the possible dimensions and all other dimensions are part of us ..it is just our conscious mind which is the limit..So interlinking effects can be only verified within the level of our current conscious mind. The more we understand, more will be revealed from the space, within, not somewhere "outside of the space" ?

Edited August 7, 2010 by Vox

[Gordon Freeman]

My personal opinion is that this "neighboring" or "parallel" Universes terminology is a bit misleading. Assume that we are in actual space which contains all of the possible dimensions and all other dimensions are part of us ..it is just our conscious mind which is the limit..So interlinking effects can be only verified within the level of our current conscious mind. The more we understand, more will be revealed from the space, within, not somewhere "outside of the space" ?

 

Exactly right vox, it is very misleading. The term 'parallel' is a misnomer for two reasons- It is not necessarily next to us nor is it an exact copy of our universe. All parallel universes, by definition, have at least one change, whether it be just one string of energy (even though I believe there are several holes in string theory) or one particle decided to go a different direction. There has to be at least one change, no matter how minuscule, for it to be a spawned universe.

 

Even if parallels aren't possible, and they never have existed, we do know for a fact that there are up to at least 12 dimensions, one containing the other. I have visual examples of this, but my drawings are crappy, so think of dimensions as squares and circles for a second. The first dimension is a square, the second a circle, that is bigger than the square, big enough to encompass it entirely, and the third dimension is a cube, bigger than the diameter of the circle, encompassing it, the fourth being a sphere, bigger than the cube, and so on and so on.

 

This means that at the center of the universe, all dimensions and properties are present, but as you go further out, you actually lose some of the base properties. Then how do we function without first and second dimensional properties, you ask? The simple answer is that each new dimension has a complexity of properties within itself, that they may be very well self sustaining. Like for example, the four dimensional sphere is only represented as a sphere so you can visually understand it in three dimensions. However, in actuality, the fourth dimension is a cube within a cube, warped so that each of the connecting diagonal connections between the corners of the cubes make perfect 90 degree angles. This is not possible in three dimensions, but we do know that compared to the three dimensional world, the fourth is warped, which makes it possible that one dimension can be bigger, if not contain another entirely.

 

Some of my theories suggest that we are on the edge of our third dimension, which can still function with 1-2D properties, but only as a subset of its own. This means that traveling directly into the fourth dimension is possible, but while doing so, we would loose all three dimensional properties of our being. Negating dimensions would make it seem like things become simpler, but in actuality, they become more complex. For example, if we were at the edge of the 12th dimension, and outside all the others, unaffected by them, the twelfth would still be more complex than the first eleven put together. It's an exponential increase each time. But again, you ask, if we're inside the first, where all twelve are present, wouldn't that have the most properties? Some dimensions hide or even cancel out other dimension's properties altogether. Which is why understanding the fourth, let alone the fifth or sixth, etc. is so difficult.

 

I thought I'd just let you know, since you seem to share the interest. I can upload visual examples if you really want. And something you should look into regarding dimensions is DMT. It's the chemical your pineal gland releases when you sleep. When people take DiMethylTriptamine while still conscious, what they remember is seeing things their brain can't handle, which is why you normally forget DMT trips, because they are too strong for your brain. A common theme is "complex geometric shapes" which is also a way of describing the fourth dimension in three dimensional terms. Interesting huh? Releasing your conscious mind into it's subconscious self may be a way to travel within other dimensions. Maybe our subconscious isn't tied to the third dimension like our normal conscious mind is... the more you know.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Gordon Freeman

[Vox]

..I thought I'd just let you know, since you seem to share the interest. I can upload visual examples if you really want. And something you should look into regarding dimensions is DMT. It's the chemical your pineal gland releases when you sleep. When people take DiMethylTriptamine while still conscious, what they remember is seeing things their brain can't handle, which is why you normally forget DMT trips, because they are too strong for your brain. A common theme is "complex geometric shapes" which is also a way of describing the fourth dimension in three dimensional terms. Interesting huh? Releasing your conscious mind into it's subconscious self may be a way to travel within other dimensions. Maybe our subconscious isn't tied to the third dimension like our normal conscious mind is... the more you know.

 

Thanks for sharing this, BTW interesting timing, I am just reading DMT and pineal gland studies...

Edited August 7, 2010 by Vox

[Gordon Freeman]

I am just reading DMT and pineal gland studies

 

There are ways to test these theories without actually ingesting chemicals, if you're not into the whole drug business. You should look into self-hallucination through sensory deprivation. If you can combine that with lucid dreaming (both of which are actually easy to induce) then you will experience something truly unique. I've used sensory deprivation to reach a prescient state of mind, which is where most of my theories involving sentience, gravity, and computing come from; that clear, focused state of mind, where I can directly communicate with my subconscious.

 

Read up on all of this- Lucid Dreaming, Sensory Deprivation, Prescience, Astral Projection, and Existentialism. Then go back to reading about the pineal gland. It'll blow your mind how much of it is true.

[Vox]

Read up on all of this- Lucid Dreaming, Sensory Deprivation, Prescience, Astral Projection, and Existentialism. Then go back to reading about the pineal gland. It'll blow your mind how much of it is true.

 

My approach is rather moderate currently, just exploring what silence has to offer. And reading, I consider, is harmless vice ;)

 

My interest rose towards these topics roughly one year ago when I was pondering how thoughts actually are "generated" and how thoughts seem to manifest rather independently without any active/consciouss thinking "command" beforehand.. thoughts just seems to appear from "nowwhere" rather "well structured, considered manner". But I do not "believe" that dark matter "is to be blamed" so these topics would need another thread.

[Gordon Freeman]

My interest rose towards these topics roughly one year ago when I was pondering how thoughts actually are "generated" and how thoughts seem to manifest rather independently without any active/consciouss thinking "command" beforehand.. thoughts just seems to appear from "nowwhere" rather "well structured, considered manner". But I do not "believe" that dark matter "is to be blamed" so these topics would need another thread.

 

I'm too lazy to find a thread, so I'll migrate there if someone posts a link, but until then, we'll keep it here.

 

And I can tell you, from my direct experiences, they are not random. They are generated purely at a logical and rational base level, and can be mathematically predicted. It's the fact that most people don't know how to view their base level. And a lot of times the subconscious will actually choose to shut out the conscious mind, depending on the individual. My subconscious is entirely open to me though. And yes, I'm talking about them like they're two different people, because technically, they are. I can write a lot about this, but I kinda feel the need to put it in the other thread... argh, someone find that link! ;)

[C. michael Turner]

Dark matter is not understood because the actuall nature of gravity is not understood. Dark matter is the nature of gravitation. Gravity is a back-action tension action to wavefront formation.

So two things are overlooked

1). All matter decays naturally creating it's own time and space via the release of the gravitational wave.

2). when waves collide they create a single wavefront with a backaction of wavefront formation. This backaction is not only the gravity we experience but also a wave synchronization that produces an overall wave synchronization in all reference frames. The actions called dark matter are actually wave front formations and the backaction of this formation .

Sincerely, C. Michael Turner

[Aleph-Null]

Dark Matter is that Mass which occupied this region of the Universe prior to the Big Bang.

[C. michael Turner]

Dark matter has been shown as nessecary to account for the nessecary gravity to form the Universe . But It has still not been proved as to what it is or from.

 

 

There are supercomputer simulations that are not able to form stars and galaxies unless we add gravity from somewhere.

 

 

And the long time theory of why the universe or the galaxies do not fly apart is that there has to be some matter that we cannot see.

 

But the source of this nessecary gravity is still not understood.

 

 

Could the source of this needed unknown gravity be coming from the mass of neighboring Universes that are believed to exist beyond ours ?

What everyone missed is the actual mechanism of regular gravity. Gravitation understood as wave front formation backaction tension explains dark matter, holding galaxies together without anything missing,

[Gordon Freeman]

Well, there are definitely things missing with that theory, maybe they just weren't covered in this conversation, but if that's all it was, then there would be many holes in that idea. And in an attempt to not make myself look too foolish, I would like you to explain that theory in full first before I attack it any further.

[Vox]

What everyone missed is the actual mechanism of regular gravity. Gravitation understood as wave front formation backaction tension explains dark matter, holding galaxies together without anything missing,

 

Presentation concerning the dark matter and dark energy,

 

Do you agree or do you disagree the views of the presenter?