C1ay Posted April 20, 2005 Report Posted April 20, 2005 Is there a life force, some kind of energy that is who we are or are we simple collections of matter driven by the same chemical and electrical reactions as the rest of nature. Religious people would call it the spirit and I don't really know what atheists would call it other than a life force. When someone dies is there a force that dies, a force that gives us life? I personally tend to believe that there is some force that man cannot yet identify or understand. Perhaps a technology from the future will tell. At any rate, it is this force that I believe enables me to make freewill decisions that steer the course of my existence. What do you think? This would probably have been a good poll question but I'd rather see discussion. This stems from the conversations on freewill vs determinism. Quote
Biochemist Posted April 20, 2005 Report Posted April 20, 2005 Is there a life force, some kind of energy that is who we are or are we simple collections of matter driven by the same chemical and electrical reactions as the rest of nature...I personally tend to believe that there is some force that man cannot yet identify or understand....it is this force that I believe enables me to make freewill decisions that steer the course of my existence. What do you think?I certainly vote "yes" on the operative question. Goodness, C1- You are beginning to sound like a theist here. As I recall, that is a little at odds with your agnostic leanings. Am I reading too much into this? Quote
C1ay Posted April 20, 2005 Author Report Posted April 20, 2005 I certainly vote "yes" on the operative question. Goodness, C1- You are beginning to sound like a theist here. As I recall, that is a little at odds with your agnostic leanings. Am I reading too much into this?No, I am firmly rooted in the belief that there is/are NO god(s). I think we have a conciousness that is something more than simple chemical reactions though. I don't see one as implying the other. Quote
bumab Posted April 20, 2005 Report Posted April 20, 2005 Do you mean a life force that can alter reality (i.e. be an un-caused causal force) or something that simply operates under natural laws that we just don't understand yet? I certainly think there is as well- a soul, in many peoples terms. That is a causal thing in the universe. (to answer the question). Quote
Queso Posted April 20, 2005 Report Posted April 20, 2005 aristotle said that if the eye was a living organism, it's soul would be sight. our souls are not ghastly haunting entities, just my opinion..i don't believe in the supernatural. Quote
C1ay Posted April 20, 2005 Author Report Posted April 20, 2005 Do you mean a life force that can alter reality (i.e. be an un-caused causal force) or something that simply operates under natural laws that we just don't understand yet? I certainly think there is as well- a soul, in many peoples terms. That is a causal thing in the universe. (to answer the question).Why is a soul a causal thing? Are you claiminging it is not even possible that it is un-causal? Quote
bumab Posted April 20, 2005 Report Posted April 20, 2005 Why is a soul a causal thing? Are you claiminging it is not even possible that it is un-causal? Apologies for being unclear. I was alluding to the free will thread you mentioned- does your definition of a soul operate outside of nature (i.e. causality)? Those convoluted words were an attempt to say that your definition of a spirit (as I understood it, probably incorrectly) sounded a lot like God, or something similar. I doubted that was your intent :), so I was looking for clarification. Sorry! Quote
Fishteacher73 Posted April 20, 2005 Report Posted April 20, 2005 Shelly addressed this idea in Frankenstein. The "rage" in the science community was this idea that there was "component" that betowed life. It was also looked at in Mr. Jekyl and Dr. Hyde and the Island of Dr. Moreau. There has been some resurgence in this idea, see such films as 21 grams. Quote
C1ay Posted April 20, 2005 Author Report Posted April 20, 2005 Apologies for being unclear. I was alluding to the free will thread you mentioned- does your definition of a soul operate outside of nature (i.e. causality)? Those convoluted words were an attempt to say that your definition of a spirit (as I understood it, probably incorrectly) sounded a lot like God, or something similar. I doubted that was your intent :), so I was looking for clarification. Sorry!My concpt of soul is an energy or force that gives us life, intelligence and free will. It is an energy or force integrated with nature in our nervous systems. It is what a theist would refer to as a spirit except that I have no belief in any God so I am reluctant to call it a spirit because of the religious connotations. I believe it is possible that we could have such a force of nature that we do not fully understand yet that was not endowed to us by God. For theists this question is easy since they believe in God and spirits. I'm wondering how many atheists believe we have some life force and which of them are inclined to believe in free will. I hope that clarifies things a bit. Quote
Biochemist Posted April 20, 2005 Report Posted April 20, 2005 No, I am firmly rooted in the belief that there is/are NO god(s). I think we have a conciousness that is something more than simple chemical reactions though. I don't see one as implying the other.I admit I was playing with you a little here. But the philosophical point stands. I really think that if one assigns any uniqueness to humans, one has to wonder about the source for it, if it is not the naturalistic causality of the universe. For some folks (e.g., Francis Schaeffer, me) this is a strong argument for God. I have no problem with folks that acknowledge the conundrum and leave it unresoolved, but it seems like you are suggesting there is no conundrum. Did I understand you correctly? Quote
Fishteacher73 Posted April 20, 2005 Report Posted April 20, 2005 IMO we are deffinately anthropocentric. I think it is inherrently impossible to not be to some extent. Yet there is no real reason to be so. Compare anything humans have done and there is an animal that has done it better longer. The only real advantage humans have had is the ability to fashion tools (And there is discussion that some proto-modern humans were quite adept at tool making. In fact, most early H. sapiens have been found with tool pouches and tools fashioned after that of the Neanderthal). People are meat and IMO that is about it. Not that I do not value my life, I just do not inflate it to some status beyond itself. Quote
C1ay Posted April 20, 2005 Author Report Posted April 20, 2005 I have no problem with folks that acknowledge the conundrum and leave it unresoolved, but it seems like you are suggesting there is no conundrum. Did I understand you correctly?I think so. For me there is no conundrum. I do not believe in God and I do believe I have free will. I believe that my spirit, soul, life force or whatever someone wants to call it, enables me to make decisions that have not been predetermined. I do not believe such a force is super natural, only that is one we do not understand. Quote
Biochemist Posted April 20, 2005 Report Posted April 20, 2005 I think so. For me there is no conundrum. I do not believe in God and I do believe I have free will. I believe that my spirit, soul, life force or whatever someone wants to call it, enables me to make decisions that have not been predetermined. I do not believe such a force is super natural, only that is one we do not understand.Interesting. This is really intriguing to me. So you are allowing for a separate source of causation, but not contending that it has to be a theistic source. I have not heard that before. Quote
C1ay Posted April 20, 2005 Author Report Posted April 20, 2005 Interesting. This is really intriguing to me. So you are allowing for a separate source of causation, but not contending that it has to be a theistic source. I have not heard that before.Many things are possible with an open mind :) Quote
lindagarrette Posted April 20, 2005 Report Posted April 20, 2005 Many things are possible with an open mind :)People believe many wierd things. It's amazing how illogical and confused so many of us are. Quote
Fluffy Posted April 20, 2005 Report Posted April 20, 2005 I'm not sure if I believe in any type of life force. When I read the topic I could only think about energy and how we are all just really energy. So maybe my idea of a life force is the electrical impulses that our brain sends to various parts of our bodies to keep us alive and to allow us to think, reason, and make decisions. Quote
C1ay Posted April 21, 2005 Author Report Posted April 21, 2005 I'm not sure if I believe in any type of life force. When I read the topic I could only think about energy and how we are all just really energy. So maybe my idea of a life force is the electrical impulses that our brain sends to various parts of our bodies to keep us alive and to allow us to think, reason, and make decisions.Ahh, but the determinist thinks your decisions are determined for you, that no free will exists. Quote
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