Life force?

[C1ay]

People believe many wierd things. It's amazing how illogical and confused so many of us are.

Yeah, especially those that claim that things like free will are not even possible and yet, they can't prove it, they just expect you to believe it because they do. Weird, huh? I personally like to think that many things are possible that man won't even have the capacity to understand for years or centuries to come. Of course there will be some that think we already understand everything there is to know :)

[Fluffy]

Ahh, but the determinist thinks your decisions are determined for you, that no free will exists.

Even if the our actions are determined there still must be electrical and chemical impulses in the brain that cause us to complete these actions. :) If there is no communication then there is no action, regardless if they are decided for us or not.

[Agentquantum]

yeah, i agree with c1ay on this one too. in fact, there's actually an "alternative" branch of science that seeks to better understand this possibly creative force of nature that enables sentient beings like us to play an active role in shaping the events of the universe, i.e. not leaving everything up to chance. it's known as orgone energy, i think, but it should be the equivalent of the oriental "chi" or the "spirit" in theist language. maybe even the Force from star wars? IMO it appears to allow us to "reverse" the second law of thermodynamics to a certain extent, and create order from apparent chaos.

 

here's a useful link:

http://www.orgone.org/

[tarak]

I believe that a certain force exists beyond human comprehension.But this is felt at higher levels of consciousness/ awareness and can be experienced when we integrate and focus ourself with our mental and physical faculties.

[questor]

i think this thread could use more discussion. the life force is responsible for

consciousness, thought, and personality. it makes us who we are and yet disappears in an instant when we die. what is is it and where does it go?

where is it's center? is it just a function of the electrical wiring of our bodies, or is it some nano-chemical reaction in sub-atomic particles about which

we know nothing? is it also the soul? at what level of chemical reactivity does

the life force exist?

[ughaibu]

I suspect consciousness is a convenient evolutionary solution to the problem of maximising the avoidance of death, making it a close fit to "life force". I have no memories of the earliest period of my life and assume I was not at that time conscious, my life force would have been primarily one of reaction supplemented by an accumulating body of knowledge that lead to consciousness. As such neither consciousness nor a life force would serve any purpose after death and would be expected to decay or be destroyed along with the rest.

[questor]

fetuses are conscious and alive. memory comes later after language and ideas are developed. i would assume the life force is coincident with fertilization or even before since the sperm and the egg are both alive. the question is: what is the life force and at what particle level does it live? is it at the atomic level or molecular or chemical? all cells possess it, and lose it at death. it has no mass and no way to measure it, yet it is observable. if all things are made of similar materials (atoms), how does the life force arise?

[Drip Curl Magic]

As for fetuses being conscious... I recently decided that fetuses, along with all other lesser developed beings... are equally conscious as myself. Infact, I've decided that ALL matter is conscious. But every piece of matter is on a different level of consciousness. I believe that every piece of matter puts off a certain amount of energy. Some objects put off significantly less amounts of energy....but they still put off energy, no doubt. I believe that energy itself is resposible for consciousness. I doubt very many will agree with me... as I have no evidence or simple answer as to why I believe this.

 

 

I wish I could explain my ideas better.... but I stayed up all night last night. And I'm having a hard time keeping my eyes open. This is about as indepth I can get at this point in time. I've got more ideas on this topic... but I can't organize my thoughts at the moment.

 

So exhausted. Time to crash.:hihi:

[geko]

I think we have a conciousness that is something more than simple chemical reactions though.

 

This is actually the idea of what all thesist philosophies are based on. From this comes all the wonderings of 'what could be'. People get ideas. People follow them.

 

As for the topic no i dont believe in the soul, but who knows...

[C1ay]

This is actually the idea of what all thesist philosophies are based on.

I wondering though, could there be a natural force that we do not understand yet, not one rooted in any theist belief.

[questor]

whatever the force is, it occurs in all living things, then disappears at the instant of death. it is a mystery and is natural, since it occurs in nature.

to understand the presence, we would have to understand at which particulate level does life exist. we are more than a pile of atoms.

[C1ay]

it is a mystery and is natural, since it occurs in nature.

Yep, but since it's something we don't understand it seems that it becomes elevated to the rank of supernatural for theistic believers..

[Tarantism]

there has been some speculation that the life force, while exiting the human body, leaves through the pineal gland...from there who knows.

[questor]

each of the trillions of cells in your body has the life force until it ceases

receiving oxygen. the cell is like a small factory, making whatever it's special product is while reproducing, maintaining, and repairing itself. we have no clue

why the cells are compelled to do this, and perform in good order (without chaos ). i would think the life force would not pick the pineal gland for it's

portal of departure.

[ughaibu]

Questor: Have you heard of endosymbiosis?

[questor]

i have read about it. the research is still being done and i would think this would be a difficult possibility for evolution of higher animals due to the shortage of available symbiotic cells. this could more likely be a laboratory occurrence than happening in the ''wild'', so to speak.