Is The Moon A Dirty Snowball ?

[scotter59]

Lunar Impact Uncovered More Than Just Moon Water

 

If the moon is a result of a planetary collision with water as a component of these bodies, why wouldn't the moon have veins of frozen water throughout, trapped and protected by the refuse of the collision as the moon contracted ?

 

I keep hearing that the moon is barren, waterless, on the surface yes, but the interior may have trapped veins, frozen and sheltered from that collision.....

[Tormod]

I think it's because there has never been any way for water to exists in other forms than ice. So there has never been rivers on the moon, neither on the surface nor below. The water has not arrived in huge, coherent chunks, but has been aggregated from ice crystals from the original collision and from comets (as well as interstellar dust which the article mentions).

[scotter59]

I think it's because there has never been any way for water to exists in other forms than ice. So there has never been rivers on the moon, neither on the surface nor below. The water has not arrived in huge, coherent chunks, but has been aggregated from ice crystals from the original collision and from comets (as well as interstellar dust which the article mentions).

 

"The diversity and abundance of volatiles in the plume suggest a variety of sources, like comets and asteroids, and an active water cycle within the lunar shadows," says Colaprete.

 

I have NOT seen articles reference the original collision as a source of water on the moon. Comets and Asteroids would represent surface sources of volatiles on the moon. I have noticed this omission in several readings, maybe the original collision was obvious and not mentioned (I am dense sometimes). The source from the original collision would mean much larger volumes.

 

As the moon condensed and volatiles were trapped they may have flowed into veins when heated by friction. Comets and asteroids are aggregates of much smaller masses and gravity would play a lesser role in their aggregate process.

 

With the premise of original collision including a significant source of water, the model presented, at what depth would the volatiles remain trapped, protected from energy sources that would cause them to evaporate ?

[Tormod]

Here is an interesting article from NASA on the subject of water on the moon:

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2005/14apr_moonwater/

[Moontanman]

Lunar Impact Uncovered More Than Just Moon Water

 

If the moon is a result of a planetary collision with water as a component of these bodies, why wouldn't the moon have veins of frozen water throughout, trapped and protected by the refuse of the collision as the moon contracted ?

 

I keep hearing that the moon is barren, waterless, on the surface yes, but the interior may have trapped veins, frozen and sheltered from that collision.....

 

 

The Modern theory is the moons formation would be that the moon was formed from material deficient in water. The moon is not a planetary body that formed slowly vie aggression from primordial debris. The moon was formed from material spawled off the Earth and "Theia" A Mars sized planet that shared the Earth orbit. "Theia" was the Greek Titan that gave birth to "Selene" the moon. Anyway, when they collided crustal material from the Earth and Theia was ejected into orbit around the earth, this material was probably very hot and as it coalesced most volatile materials were lost to space.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_impact_hypothesis

 

 

Evidence of vast lava flows in the moon indicate at least the interior if not the entire moon was at one time molten. The Earth probably also lost much water at this time (some think the Earth would be covered by miles of water with no land surface if this collision hadn't happened) The Earth was left with an extra big metallic core and the Moon was left with just the lighter crustal material and very little in the way of heavier metals like iron to form a core.

 

For a body to be intermixed with "veins" of water ice or other volatiles it can't be big enough to differentiate. The moon is thought to be more than big enough for it's accretion to have generated enough heat to cause volatiles to be out gassed at the surface. Ceres, the largest asteroid is also thought to have differentiated but still cold enough to have held on to certain ices. Ceresis 950 kilometers (590 miles)in diameter. The moon is much larger at 3475 kilometers, and thought be differentiated as well.

 

[scotter59]

The Modern theory is the moons formation would be that the moon was formed from material deficient in water. The moon is not a planetary body that formed slowly vie aggression from primordial debris. The moon was formed from material spawled off the Earth and "Theia" A Mars sized planet that shared the Earth orbit. "Theia" was the Greek Titan that gave birth to "Selene" the moon. Anyway, when they collided crustal material from the Earth and Theia was ejected into orbit around the earth, this material was probably very hot and as it coalesced most volatile materials were lost to space.

 

Evidence of vast lava flows in the moon indicate at least the interior if not the entire moon was at one time molten. The Earth probably also lost much water at this time (some think the Earth would be covered by miles of water with no land surface if this collision hadn't happened) The Earth was left with an extra big metallic core and the Moon was left with just the lighter crustal material and very little in the way of heavier metals like iron to form a core.

 

For a body to be intermixed with "veins" of water ice or other volatiles it can't be big enough to differentiate. The moon is thought to be more than big enough for it's accretion to have generated enough heat to cause volatiles to be out gassed at the surface. Ceres, the largest asteroid is also thought to have differentiated but still cold enough to have held on to certain ices. Ceresis 950 kilometers (590 miles)in diameter. The moon is much larger at 3475 kilometers, and thought be differentiated as well.

 

Thanks for the explanation, a molten core of lighter crustal material and a tremendous volume of water lost to space, blown away by radiation / solar winds....

 

Expected that the birth of the moon would be quite an event, a huge debris field after the spawling that would include water. Theia's molten core cooling over eons would invalidate my musings of trapped water on the moon from the collision event.....

 

I was thinking that the ejected mass would be debris, not a solid core as depicted in diagrams - billiard balls bouncing off each other. I was thinking that the two cores merged and the lighter crustal material (including water) would be ejected as debris to reconstitute itself into our moon.

[Moontanman]

Thanks for the explanation, a molten core of lighter crustal material and a tremendous volume of water lost to space, blown away by radiation / solar winds....

 

Actually no, the part of the crust of both planets was blown into orbit, it no doubt contained lots of water but the water was too hot to condense and it was lost to space before the material could coalesce into the moon.

 

Expected that the birth of the moon would be quite an event, a huge debris field after the spawling that would include water. Theia's molten core cooling over eons would invalidate my musings of trapped water on the moon from the collision event.....

 

Theia's core merged with the earth, it did not become the moon.

 

I was thinking that the ejected mass would be debris, not a solid core as depicted in diagrams - billiard balls bouncing off each other. I was thinking that the two cores merged and the lighter crustal material (including water) would be ejected as debris to reconstitute itself into our moon.

 

It was debris, hot debris too light to generate enough gravity to hold water vapor. As it coalesced the in fall of material heated to a molten state, any further water was out gassed and lost to space due to the low gravity of the moon.

[scotter59]

Actually no, the part of the crust of both planets was blown into orbit, it no doubt contained lots of water but the water was too hot to condense and it was lost to space before the material could coalesce into the moon.

"lost to space" without being blown away or velocity to escape the vicinity of the combined mass of two planets. There may have been one heck of a volatile cycle, vent to orbit and swept up again. The debris, including water would have been in the same orbit as Theia - Earth.

 

Once the vapor was exposed to radiation it may have been able to escape the system of debris and new Earth. This system did not have the mass of a comet or its orbit.

 

Theia's core merged with the earth, it did not become the moon.

 

Which would mean that the debris field was not a solid molten mass but an aggregation, accumulations of debris that was swept up.

 

It was debris, hot debris too light to generate enough gravity to hold water vapor. As it coalesced the in fall of material heated to a molten state, any further water was out gassed and lost to space due to the low gravity of the moon.

 

This was a planetary system not just a moon, the debris, including water would be following the same orbit. The fall to the Moon would not heat the material to a molten state, impact would depending on velocity.

[Moontanman]

"lost to space" without being blown away or velocity to escape the vicinity of the combined mass of two planets. There may have been one heck of a volatile cycle, vent to orbit and swept up again. The debris, including water would have been in the same orbit as Theia - Earth.

 

First of all the debris was extremely hot, much of it was rock vapor, it quickly coalesced but water vapor would have been lost, water vapor molecules move too fast to stay in orbit around the earth for long.

 

 

Once the vapor was exposed to radiation it may have been able to escape the system of debris and new Earth. This system did not have the mass of a comet or its orbit.

 

The exposure to the solar wind would have been immediate, water vapor would have swept away immediately..

 

 

Which would mean that the debris field was not a solid molten mass but an aggregation, accumulations of debris that was swept up.

 

Yes, it was a large cloud of debris, very hot debris, most of it fell back to earth only a small amount coalesced into the moon but this in fall of material was more than energetic enough to result in a molten moon.

 

This was a planetary system not just a moon, the debris, including water would be following the same orbit.

 

No, the water vapor would be swept away by the solar wind as it slowly expanded into a ever larger cloud of vapor.

 

The fall to the Moon would not heat the material to a molten state, impact would depending on velocity.

 

Most sources disagree with you on this, in fall to the moon would have released plenty of energy to heat the moon up, not to mention the material was hot to begin with due to being blasted off the face of the Earth by the impact... tidal friction would have provided plenty of extra heat as well.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon

 

The large amount of energy released in the giant impact event and the subsequent reaccretion of material in Earth orbit would have melted the outer shell of the Earth, forming a magma ocean.[20][21] The newly formed Moon would also have had its own lunar magma ocean; estimates for its depth range from about 500 km to the entire radius of the Moon.

 

The Moon is a differentiated body: it has a geochemically distinct crust, mantle, and core. This structure is thought to have developed through the fractional crystallization of a global magma ocean shortly after the Moon's formation 4.5 billion years ago.[23] Crystallization of this magma ocean would have created a mafic mantle from the precipitation and sinking of the minerals olivine, clinopyroxene, and orthopyroxene; after about three-quarters of the magma ocean had crystallised, lower-density plagioclase minerals could form and float into a crust on top.[24] The final liquids to crystallise would have been initially sandwiched between the crust and mantle, with a high abundance of incompatible and heat-producing elements.[1] Consistent with this, geochemical mapping from orbit shows the crust is mostly anorthosite,[5] and moon rock samples of the flood lavas erupted on the surface from partial melting in the mantle confirm the mafic mantle composition, which is more iron rich than that of Earth.[1] Geophysical techniques suggest that the crust is on average ~50 km thick.[1]

 

The Moon is the second densest satellite in the Solar System after Io.[25] However, the core of the Moon is small, with a radius of about 350 km or less;[1] this is only ~20% the size of the Moon, in contrast to the ~50% of most other terrestrial bodies. Its composition is not well constrained, but it is probably metallic iron alloyed with a small amount of sulphur and nickel; analyses of the Moon's time-variable rotation indicate that it is at least partly molten.[26]

[scotter59]

First of all the debris was extremely hot, much of it was rock vapor, it quickly coalesced but water vapor would have been lost, water vapor molecules move too fast to stay in orbit around the earth for long.

 

The exposure to the solar wind would have been immediate, water vapor would have swept away immediately..

 

Yes, it was a large cloud of debris, very hot debris, most of it fell back to earth only a small amount coalesced into the moon but this in fall of material was more than energetic enough to result in a molten moon.

 

No, the water vapor would be swept away by the solar wind as it slowly expanded into a ever larger cloud of vapor.

 

Most sources disagree with you on this, in fall to the moon would have released plenty of energy to heat the moon up, not to mention the material was hot to begin with due to being blasted off the face of the Earth by the impact... tidal friction would have provided plenty of extra heat as well.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon

 

I still wonder how vapor, water/rock, when in the space environment in a gravity field represented by the mass of these two bodies as a result of a spalling event depicted would behave - cores merge, angle impact, would the material leave the binary systems orbit or would it be a trail being recollected like the Earth collects debris from comets as the orbits intersect. How fast would the vapor cool, lose, radiate energy and condense in space....

 

Okay, I tried to get some more water on the Moon...... B)